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For those of us over 40 ish a question, this is tragic!

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  • Vic's ViewpointVic's Viewpoint Senior Member Posts: 1,188 Senior Member
    Zorba is, of course, correct when he says that "the state" took away the individual's right to parent.  Oddly enough, however, the Federal government is not the culprit;  as far as I know, there is no federal law against reasonable corporal punishment.  Each state is free to legislate limits on corporal punishment by parents, school administrators, and the like, presumably according to the dictates and wishes of its citizenry.
    Member formerly known as "vlafrank."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,663 Senior Member
    Correct. There were two states involved at the time - California and Texas. Guess which one was slightly more reasonable?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 563 Senior Member
    I’m Sorry to admit it took me a long time and many confrontations with youth and parents to learn to not make snap judgments of parents or kids. 

    Having been an educator, coach, “youth mentor”, and parent. I’ve learned I’m not always right and corporal punishment isn’t always the way. As a matter of fact I’ve learned that with some kids not all, but some all it does is make it worse. 

    When I was teaching I was given the “hard to deal with” class. I as a last resort I would send kids to the office. Many times that was the game and when they learned I wasn’t  going to play, it stopped. But the main thing I learned was if your cool with me I’ll be cool with you. My rules were very simple and presented clearly in the beginning. I didn’t try to intimidate the kids or use my mean voice or threats. It was a simple this is the expectation and we will work towards it. Many of these kids didn’t need another asshole in their lives they need someone who is fair and willing. I ignored a lot of behaviors and they would eventually go away, why because that didn’t get you any attention. 

    I had an aid that didn’t get it she had to be the boss and you better listen. Within a day she had one of the best kids in class standing up telling her to F’off. School policy he was sent to the office. He and I had a chat later in the day he apologized to me and later to her. She was reassigned to a different class. He by the way graduated in the top 1/4 of his class and has been very successful in life. 

    I guess what I’m saying is, was the behavior bad yes do you know the whole story no. 

    Also I absolutely don’t believe we are doomed yes I think there are some kids out there that need a lot of help. But I believe there’s more good kids out there than bad. 

    My kids aren’t perfect they get in trouble they do dumb stuff. But they are also kind, honest and dependable. My parenting has change many times over the years and I hope continues to change and grow. I hope I’m a better parent to my youngest son than I was to my oldest. If not I have failed. 
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,783 Senior Member
    edited January 2 #35
    ilove22s said:
    something else.

    since i love horses, i was fascinated with the "horse whisperer" and the natural horsemanship stuff.

    But what i took out of that any anything related including people, is that consistence is key and follow up.  

    Dont know about how the kids were "trained" but to me but there was some issues in that. grounding, corporal punishment., removal from enviornment, taking away TV/Phone/PC time...ect who knows, but i think that consistancy is good.

    and another thing i got out of it, was having their attention and respect.


    Actually I learned to train horses under the tutelage of a John Lyons trainer and have a copy of his book Lyons on Horses autographed to me in my office.  

    Many of the methods taught by that generation of horse trainers should be required teaching for parents.  Those folks taught that you swiftly need to accomplish domination over the animal by establishing your superiority in the pecking order.  Not through pain but through pressure, demeanor and respect.  

    And with children, horses, dogs etc, the earlier you establish that relationship the easier it is and the better off you are long term.  If your 3 year old doesn’t know you are the absolute boss and your word is unbendable law when he becomes 13 guess what you’ll have.  A nightmare.

    With horses, in essence you become the alpha stallion in the herd of two, and in this man/horse partnership you are the brains of the outfit and trusted by the horse with all decisions for the team which operates as one.

    The relationship with a developing child should be pretty much the same.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,663 Senior Member
    N454casull said:
    ...corporal punishment isn’t always the way.
    I don't think anybody here is saying that it is - but the State has NO right to preempt it either.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,783 Senior Member
    What Gun Nut said!  His child rearing practices and philosophy are both unassailable.
    Thank you!  They worked.  I’m almost stupidly proud of the two I raised.  They’ve become great adults.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

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