Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

Attack on US Embassy in Baghdad

2

Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    There are bound to be consequences we don't like, but there have been since '79. Here's a story I believe as gospel.

    My step-son is a Major in the US Army. He did 2 combat tours in Iraq as a tank platoon commander. (An aside....he was awarded the Bronze Star with Valor device following an action that included his tank getting blown up by a suicide-donkey...but that's another story).

    He stated that during his first tour he stood about as much chance of being shot by an Iraqi as he did shooting himself. Proficiency with firearms didn't really seem their forte.

    Three years later, on his 2nd tour, things had changed. Exchanges of gunfire with the Iraqis still often left him wondering if they were shooting at him or the sun. But the encounters involving accurate incoming fire were much more common. During the clean-up of the aftermass after one of these encounters it was almost inevitable that there'd be a few dead Syrian mercenaries among the mess. 

    He said he really had no personal beef with the Iraqis, and only slightly more with the Syrians themselves. His beef was with the Iranians that were training, arming, and sponsering the Syrians. He told me this almost 10 years ago.

    Mike






    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 898 Senior Member
    Could it be our own training of the Iraqi personnel was to blame?
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    No.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,558 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    It was a military target he WAS a top military leader. In a war zone they created, what's the problem? 
    Because it's further escalation of an unnecessary conflict. An all out shooting war with Iran is not a situation we ultimately want to be in, but this pushes us much closer to that. Not only that but it does so with many in the world community not backing us up. 
    Wait a second here.  Escalation?  This Iranian was a Military leader responsible for an estimated 600 American Military deaths. He was behind many of the attacks against us in the Middle East.  He was behind the attack on our embassy that had stopped to regroup and were planning to attack again.  The strike was actually against the group planning to attack the embassy again, he just happened to be there. Who did the escalating?  I guess we should have sent a couple billion dollars in the dark of night and asked them to please not kill our people in the embassy?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Merrritt Island, FLPosts: 25,219 Senior Member
    Ah yes, "escalation". Sometimes, "escalation" is how you get things done as I told an idiot property manager who tried using that term with me once upon a time.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #37
    After 16 years in Iraq and the reasons given for the invasion, I'm skeptical of anything the US Gov't says to justify yet another war. I'm not saying the "officials" are lying, but as civilians, we are only hear what they want us to hear. 

    RE: Accipiter's question...There has been numerous American trained Iraqi troops who've fired on and killed our military personnel. Hell, there's been quite a few muslim sympathetic American soldiers who've also killed their fellow soldiers, some on America soil. And let's not forget who helped train and arm Bin Laden. While the Iranians play a big part in the training, we also own some of the responsibility. 
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    I believe in terminal escalation.  When the war with Japan reached a point where the cost in American lives was unbearable we unleashed the sun on them.  Now we have a respectful ally that has seen that friendship with our country is much preferable to war against it.  You don’t see Europe rushing in to have a war with the USA either right?  
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Merrritt Island, FLPosts: 25,219 Senior Member
    "terminal escalation" - I like it!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #40
    Accipiter said:
    Could it be our own training of the Iraqi personnel was to blame?
    And by my answer, I wasn't being flippant. The timing of my step-sons deployments were relatively early on in the conflict. And that's the point. At both times he was there we were still fighting the remnants of the Iraqi Army (who the US certainly hadn't trained) that didn't wish to surrender. Except the second deployment was more deadly due to the embedded Syrians, trained, armed, and paid......by Iran.

    We eventually got around to attempting to train an Iraqi SD and Police force, with mixed results judging by the future green on blue attacks. Seems the Iranians got there first.

    I was a Marine when the US Embassy in Tehran was stormed. I hadn't been out long when the Marine Barracks in Beruit was bombed. This type of Iranian backed stuff has been going on for 40 years now.

    Who knows how this will go, or how it will end? Surely not me. But in some circumstances, somebody has to be the meanest dog on the street. 40 years is long enough restraint.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member

    Who knows how this will go, or how it will end? Surely not me. But in some circumstances, somebody has to be the meanest dog on the street. 40 years is long enough restraint.

    Mike
    That pretty much sums up my thinking.  Every time we try to be civil they snicker and bite us on the ass as soon as we turn around.  F’ em...
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,751 Senior Member
    Can't open fire on an unarmed crowd. No American casualties. Can't start a war over a broken gate. Right move, IMO.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    No American casualties is the only part of that post I can agree with. The rest is completely asinine.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,284 Senior Member
    Gene...an unarmed crowd? Seriously?....since when is a .Molotov Cocktail NOT a weapon?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,558 Senior Member
    Gene did you not see the video of them shooting at the window with embassy personnel cowering behind desks and furniture?  Yes the walls, doors, windows are hardened, but we all know they are rated for x amount of rounds within a certain space, then they will give way?  If they had kept shooting at that window those Americans would have been killed.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #46
    Deleted....

    I just moderated myself .

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    Well...I'd rather Trump eat his words and dump a half dozen missiles on them than a C-130 dumping a cargo load of cash on them.

    But.......that's just me. :)

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Well...I'd rather Trump eat his words and dump a half dozen missiles on them than a C-130 dumping a cargo load of cash on them.

    But.......that's just me. :)

    Mike
    Not just you...  I agree.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Western PAPosts: 8,234 Senior Member
    Yep. Both the Pentagon and Iran confirmed it was a US helicopter strike.

    Mike

    Excuse my ignorance; I have two questions:

    1) Is killing Soleimani an act of war?

    2) What was an high-ranking Iranian military official doing in Iraq?

    1. No, killing a embedded Iranian national who has been on the terrorist list since 2011 currently engaged in attacking US soil in a different country than Iran is not an act of war. At best he was a foreign military advisor to the terrorists. If that was the case, he takes his chances. No different than pre VN or gulf war. If American or Russian advisors got killed while embedded with the locals, it doesnt count as an act of war against Russia or the US. It is also perfectly legal for the CIC to order and have the attack carried out w/o consulting congress for a few reasons. War Powers Act, the fact that the gen. was involved in an attack on the US  (actual act of war), The fact that he is a terrorist.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,579 Senior Member
    It is good to see things don't change....

    LineFinder - Depending on your SIL location, he was going to see differ things. Not all of the foreign fighters coming into Iraq were Syrian. The Iranians flexed some of their special fighters to help the Sadr movement along, and to keep an eye on the Badr Corps before they injected themselves into the Iraqi political process. 
    Also, we were training Iraqi's as early as July of '03. Started it in full swing in '04. 

    For those that haven't, go to Google maps and find the embassy in Baghdad. The stand off between the compound gates and the actual embassy is a good distance. And, as someone stated, it is best to slowly escalate the defense response. Especially since as a country, we suck at IO. Additionally, remember that an Embassy is not sovereign territory. It is American property built on foreign soil. The actual compound isn't even guarded by American, though there is a three star HQ 500M away with. The Marines guard the Building. 

    The Kabul embassy has been attacked...or at least there have been attempts. 

    It is highly unlikely we will go into a shooting war with Iran. It is highly likely they may will respond through their proxies - Houthi, Hezzbolah, Hamas, etc. 
    I also anticipate Cyber attacks on economic platforms, or platforms that will disrupt economics and transportation. 

    Interestingly, while I am sure Antonio has thought of it, no one has mentioned what will the Russian and Chinese response be when Iran answers.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Central MNPosts: 14,661 Senior Member
    Good to hear from you hey, thanks.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Iran finances their foolishness with oil and gas money. We know with certainty where these oil and gas lines are, and where the oil fields are; they are fixed targets. So are the offshore pumping stations that are used to fill tankers. Taking out those assets and keeping them shut down would bankrupt Iran and their ability to fund their terrorist activities. Wiping out their so called 'bass boat' navy would be easy, too, as would be mining their few deep water ports. Their people wouldn't like being bankrupted and put in a triple digit inflation situation.
    As to the Iranian general, his 'aides', and a few Iraqi terrorists being eliminated, I have no problems with that outcome. He wasn't supposed to be there by UN edict of no travel. He was planning more attacks on the embassy. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist, and he got the terrorists just reward, same as a rabid dog.
    Iran just got a wake up call. We've been fighting their proxy army for a couple of decades. If we have to isolate and bankrupt their ability to fund terrorism without putting boots on the ground then I'm all for it. Let the people force regime change in their country. If they want it bad enough, then it will happen. If we can help them in that respect, then I'm for that, too, but without any American boots on Iranian soil.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,558 Senior Member
    It will be "interesting" to see how Iran responds here. There is no doubt they will and more than likely it will be unconventionally. Two under the radar targets that would have significant symbolic impact would be Trump's two golf courses in Dubai and Trump Tower in Istanbul.  Their ultimate target I think would be Mar-a-lago, but unclear if they would have the capability to hit it. Then again they have pretty close ties with Cuba so you never completely know. I feel like whatever retaliation occurs will be specifically targeted to enrage Trump. 
    Me thinks you give Iran way too much credit for what they are capable of and have the stones for.  More likely attack woman while shopping and cyber attacks.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,284 Senior Member
    Appears they have been lobbing rockets into the green zone and at the airfield...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Colorado SpringsPosts: 7,823 Senior Member
    Maybe, but better to overestimate than underestimate your adversaries. 
    To a degree, but....

    If you tend to underestimate your enemies you tend to get routinely slaughtered.

    If you tend to overestimate your enemies, you tend to wring your hands and eventually get slaughtered because the time you've spent wringing your hands allows him to become what you've feared him to be.

    Mike

    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,697 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    After 16 years in Iraq and the reasons given for the invasion, I'm skeptical of anything the US Gov't says to justify yet another war. 
    In the original Sherlock Holmes stories, Dr. Watson is a veteran of the British campaigns in Afghanistan - circa 1880.

    In the recent BBC TV series Sherlock, Dr. Watson is a veteran of the British campaigns in Afghanistan - circa maybe 2008.

    After scratching my head over how convenient geopolitical events were to the writers of the new show, I suddenly realized that, really "It's still the same war".

    I think part of why it's still going on is that we often fail to realize that.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,313 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    CaliFFL said:
    After 16 years in Iraq and the reasons given for the invasion, I'm skeptical of anything the US Gov't says to justify yet another war. 


    After scratching my head over how convenient geopolitical events were to the writers of the new show, I suddenly realized that, really "It's still the same war".

    It's not just a war- its a way of life.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Western PAPosts: 8,234 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    CaliFFL said:
    After 16 years in Iraq and the reasons given for the invasion, I'm skeptical of anything the US Gov't says to justify yet another war. 
    In the original Sherlock Holmes stories, Dr. Watson is a veteran of the British campaigns in Afghanistan - circa 1880.

    In the recent BBC TV series Sherlock, Dr. Watson is a veteran of the British campaigns in Afghanistan - circa maybe 2008.

    After scratching my head over how convenient geopolitical events were to the writers of the new show, I suddenly realized that, really "It's still the same war".

    I think part of why it's still going on is that we often fail to realize that.

    Do you know why "shores of Tripoli" is in the Marine Corps hymn? It didnt start with George W Bush. They have been making war on us since we became a country, actually before we were formally a country..
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Lake County, FloridaPosts: 7,927 Senior Member
    The only thing McCain ever said that I liked was Bomb, Bomb, Bomb....BOMB, BOMB IRAN!!
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 898 Senior Member
    I prefer LEAVE, LEAVE, LEAVE,......LEAVE the Middle East.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    When I was in HS one guy decided that he needed to pay attention to me, still have no clue why.  He was constantly needling me and harassing me for a few weeks.  My dad was pretty adamant about me not starting fights so I kept walking away which only emboldened him.

    One day we found ourselves without one of our teachers and there was some lag in getting in a substitute.   This DB said one thing to many in my direction and I’ve had it.  I picked up a metal stool and swung it in his defection so it flew a few inches from his head.  I’m pretty sure his pants were moist immediately after the incident.

    I learned that day that a disproportionately violent response ENDS petty aggression real quick.  He avoided me for two years after that.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement