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Hog Hunt

snake284snake284 Senior MemberPosts: 22,387 Senior Member
I finally got a place to hunt hogs. My friend and college tutor Carrie's dad says he would love to have me shoot some hogs on his place. He has traps around it but the hogs overrwhelm his efforts. So Saturday night Carrie and I went out and sat atop a hill over some corn. We sat in my truck for over an hour and finally I spotted a line of hogs running along a creek about 200 yards from where we were perched above. It was a full moon but overcast. I saw their faint images running on the other side of the creek bank through my binoculars, but by the time we got our guns pointed in their general direction they had gone on.

We started the truck and drove down the hill and followed the creek to a road that leads up the hill again about three hundred yards from where we were first perched. Then we spotted them in the spot light. I got out of the car and Carrie held the light on them. I had time for one shot before they went over the hill. I know I hit one pig right square in the butt. I'm deaf, but Carrie said she heard it squeal. But it took off for points unknown through the brush. It was an easy shot at about 150 yards and all I could see was his butt as he neared the top of the hill so I shot between his hams.

I wasn't in the mood to track him as that place is full of reptiles of various descriptions (it's in the Guadelupe River Bottom, some with a rattle on their tail and some with big teeth and 10 feet long and it wasn't really cold enough to keep em down in their holes. I had been hoping I could have caught them out on open ground, but no such luck as they were already in the brush when we saw them. And the brush was head high in places. Carrie said she would go out the next morning and walk the tree line in daylight to see if she could find it. (Edited to Add: I talked to her today and she said she didn't find it). It could have run off their property because it wasn't that far from the fence. This would have been a good time to have a couple of dogs along. Anyway, it broke the ice and I'm going back later this week.

I've been working on my 7 mag scope mounts. Since I changed scopes on it, the Leupold 4-12x40s power selection ring was hitting the rear ring. So I got an extended front base and turned it around backwards to move the scope back about 1/2 inch. It took a week for the extended base to get here from Midway and I put it on last night. I'd like to take it out tomorrow and sight it in and take this rifle hunting. I just changed the load to one that requires Magnum Rifle primers and RL 22 with a 160 grain Sierra Game King. I want to see how they perform on game and tweak the load before the forum elk hunt so I figured a tough hog would be a good guinea pig. I don't know if Carrie found the hog or not. She was out of pocket all day yesterday and she had her phone off. I'll check with her later when i can get hold of her and see if she found the hog.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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Replies

  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    Happens, probably need more gun for that shot.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Happens, probably need more gun for that shot.

    Well I won't bring up which gun I used but suffice it to say it was plenty. We know I hit it but the shot presented just wasn't ideal. Ricky, Carrie's dad didn't cry over not revcovering the animal, he just wants them shot. I could have used the meat, but there'll be other times. That's down in a bottom where the Victoria barge canal runs, Hence the hill. There's no natural hills around here except where you go down into a bottom like that several miles from the bay. The top of the hill there is probably 20 feet above sea level. My house is about `16 feet but i'm about 4 miles closer to a bay.

    Anyway, Like I said the shot presentation wasn't very good, and the brush around there gave the hog a place to run. Now we know where to sit next time. Her dad has a couple of duck blinds down by the ponds in front of the hill. That way we'll be in a better position to ambush them. They'll walk within 50 feet of the duck blinds on the path up the hill. That way Carrie can get on em with her Model 7400 Remington so we'll have two rifles on them. I don't think we'll need a spot light. The moon will be fairly bright most of the week. My freezer is empty and Carrie doesn't like wild hog meat. So 2 or 3 hogs would fit right nice inside.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    So you intentionally shot an animal in the butt and failed to follow up the shot because "you were not in the mood to track it" Sorry Snake, even a feral hog deserves more respect than that. Game is game and it all deserves to be killed cleanly or not at all.

    Sako
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    He wasn't in the mood to track it BECAUSE "that place is full of reptiles of various descriptions (it's in the Guadelupe River Bottom, some with a rattle on their tail and some with big teeth and 10 feet long and it wasn't really cold enough to keep em down in their holes."

    Everybody is in favor of a clean kill, but there are limits to what is a reasonable risk of your own hide over a nuisance animal. "Game" is different, as it implies that there is no imperative *need* to kill it, as with most any non-nuisance animal.

    I know that *I* wouldn't risk my life on the chance that it *might* insure a clean kill of a nuisance animal, and I'm sure he didn't shoot it with the expectation of not getting a reasonably quick kill because it was headed straight away from him.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    He wasn't in the mood to track it BECAUSE "that place is full of reptiles of various descriptions (it's in the Guadelupe River Bottom, some with a rattle on their tail and some with big teeth and 10 feet long and it wasn't really cold enough to keep em down in their holes."

    Everybody is in favor of a clean kill, but there are limits to what is a reasonable risk of your own hide over a nuisance animal. "Game" is different, as it implies that there is no imperative *need* to kill it, as with most any non-nuisance animal.

    I know that *I* wouldn't risk my life on the chance that it *might* insure a clean kill of a nuisance animal, and I'm sure he didn't shoot it with the expectation of not getting a reasonably quick kill because it was headed straight away from him.

    Luis
    Be it a nuisance animal or not, it deserves to be killed clean or not at all. If he was concerned about going after it, the shot should not have been taken. Hunting ethics 101.

    Sako
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Buzzards and possums need to eat, too. Feral pigs are a plague around there. Gut-shoot 'em and let the scavengers take care of the situation!
    Jerry
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    My freezer is empty and Carrie doesn't like wild hog meat. So 2 or 3 hogs would fit right nice inside.

    You may already know this, but if you shoot them a little farther forward, you may get a little bit more usable meat. :jester:
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    So you intentionally shot an animal in the butt and failed to follow up the shot because "you were not in the mood to track it" Sorry Snake, even a feral hog deserves more respect than that. Game is game and it all deserves to be killed cleanly or not at all.

    Sako

    Ever hit a possum with your car??
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    snake:
    Maybe the femoral artery next time, it would not get too far that way and probably leave a blood trail a blind man could follow.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Ever hit a possum with your car??
    Yes and if you don't get out and take action they can play possum and run away after you drive away.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,654 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Be it a nuisance animal or not, it deserves to be killed clean or not at all. If he was concerned about going after it, the shot should not have been taken. Hunting ethics 101.

    Sako

    Have you ever put out rat poison?
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Yes and if you don't get out and take action they can play possum and run away after you drive away.

    Exactly the point I was going to make Ned.................so whats the 327mag like at finishing them off?
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Hunting ethics 101.

    Sako

    Do Hunting ethics apply to pest animals...............In my view they do not normally.

    When culling for pest destruction the whole object of the exercise is to destroy animals. Sometimes the luxury of 'killing clean' is not available.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Ever hit a possum with your car??

    Never hit a possum, raccoon once and a deer once and I had the decency to stop and make sure they were dead. What bearing this has on anything here I don't know. Hitting something with a car is not an intentional act. Shooting an animal in it's hind end is. it is not the leaving in the field I have issue with, that happens with all manor of varmint and vermin. It is an intentional poor shot placement and no follow up I have issue with.

    Sako
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Have you ever put out rat poison?

    No. And again, how is this relavent to this topic?

    Sako
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Do Hunting ethics apply to pest animals...............In my view they do not normally.

    When culling for pest destruction the whole object of the exercise is to destroy animals. Sometimes the luxury of 'killing clean' is not available.

    In my mind, yes they do. I have no issue with pest control, cull hunts or what have you. It is my belief that every animal deserves our best effort at a humane death.

    Sako
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Exactly the point I was going to make Ned.................so whats the 327mag like at finishing them off?
    Actually, back in the day when I did that, I'd use the heel of my boot or preferably a tire iron. .327 did not come along for another 49 years or so.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    So you intentionally shot an animal in the butt and failed to follow up the shot because "you were not in the mood to track it" Sorry Snake, even a feral hog deserves more respect than that. Game is game and it all deserves to be killed cleanly or not at all.

    Sako

    Ahh but sako my friend, Feral Hogs are not considered game down here. They are pests, but pests that are good to eat. However, if you saw where that hog ran, you wouldn't have gone after it either. They's Buzztails in them thar hills!!! Lots of Buzztails!!! Thou shalt Not venture forth in da dark. Not healthy!!!

    Besides Ricky, Carrie's dad, shoots em on sight and doesn't even attempt to pick all of them up.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    The owner wanted them gone and the OP was after meat. Therefore, he was hunting. So, the meat was wasted in an ill conceived shot.

    I understand this is a personal view and I'm fine with that. Kinda like long range shooting. We tend to place "ethics" into our own little box as we deem fit. So, I will agree to let it lay as a personal choice as long as the anti long range crowd agrees to keep their "ethics" to themselves as well.

    Actually, I was doing her dad a favor eliminating hogs. If I collected the meat it's a bonus. His words were " Hell yeah tell him to come shoot em all for all I care." That's what that was about. Yeah I like hog meat. If I could have dropped the hog out in the open I would have. But when the land owner's daughter is righht there telling you to shoot their A _ _ ! I'm not going to do a lot of thinking about what if it runs in that brush to the right or whatever. I'm killing pests first and eating second. And this is not about ethics. It's about pest elimination. I wouldn't do that to game. No way!

    This reminds me of a story that was told to me once at a Hunter Education Seminar one time by a Parks and Wildlife official. He said this one clown of a Bunny Hugging Biologist was at a meeting in a small town where they were discussing newly proposed laws with the locals and he brought up that he thought it would be good to put a season and bag limit on wild hogs. He was almost lynched, LOL!!! Not the thing to tell a bunch of farmers and ranchers in Texas.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Ahh but sako my friend, Feral Hogs are not considered game down here. They are pests, but pests that are good to eat. However, if you saw where that hog ran, you wouldn't have gone after it either. They's Buzztails in them thar hills!!! Lots of Buzztails!!! Thou shalt Not venture forth in da dark. Not healthy!!!

    Besides Ricky, Carrie's dad, shoots em on sight and doesn't even attempt to pick all of them up.

    I see. so because the texas div of wildlife does not legally classify them as game animals this somehow aliviates your moral resposibility to cleanly kill an animal.
    Sorry, my mind does not work that way.

    Sako
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Wild hogs are shot from helicopters here in mass. At that it is almost a losing battle to control them. So don't get too teary eyed over them. If machine guns were not a Class III issue, I'm sure they would be hunting them from small planes and helicoptors using M-16s and BMGs, and they may well resort to such tactics before this is over with. Nothing since Fire Ants and Killer Bees has anything inspired such concentrated efforts to wipe them out. And they're still gaining on us.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    You got it bro. But remember that in your case I don't judge you on ethics when it comes to long range. You have the needed skill, no question of that. Also, I won't ever let myself be guilty of doing this where legitimate game is concerned. Again, my only problem with long range shooting is that every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks they have your skills and try that out on legitimate game. On the other hand, if I see John Q Public shooting at hogs at 1000, 2000, or even 3000 yards, as long as he's being safe and has a good back stop of some kind such as a tree line or embankment, I got no problem with him, her or whatever. As long as a person is attempting to erradicate a problem and not just randomly shooting at game animals at long ranges, it doesn't register as unethical in my mind. But we all are entitled to our opinion, so I have no problem with what you say or do. You and most all here that I know of are ethical hunters.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Wild hogs are shot from helicopters here in mass. At that it is almost a losing battle to control them. So don't get too teary eyed over them. If machine guns were not a Class III issue, I'm sure they would be hunting them from small planes and helicoptors using M-16s and BMGs, and they may well resort to such tactics before this is over with. Nothing since Fire Ants and Killer Bees has anything inspired such concentrated efforts to wipe them out. And they're still gaining on us.

    As I said before, I care not how many are killed or left to the carrion. I do care about the manner in which they are killed. If using the butt hole for a bullseye gives you a sense of satisfation and you feel no remorse for leaving a wounded animal to suffer and die, well then I guess we are simply of different mind sets on this subject and I fail to see the use in hashing this any further.
    Carry on as you see fit.

    Sako
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Oh I didn't get your point before. In my mind I know I killed that hog and pretty well out right. The fact that I didn't go looking for it in high snakie brush was a decision I had to make in a few short seconds. I was hoping I would knock it down before it made it into that brush, but I didn't. You'd have to see the place to appreciate it. I woudn't have gone in there at night anymore than I would go into the alders after a wounded cape buffalo. But maybe we are different in this respect. I just know that I'm not losing sleep over a hog. They are a terribly distructive animal to the land and the bio in general. I guarantee there are a lot of people who will shoot them like that and never look back but are totally ethical where game is concerned. Around here it isn't thought of as game. It's a pest that happens to be good to eat.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    In my mind, yes they do. I have no issue with pest control, cull hunts or what have you. It is my belief that every animal deserves our best effort at a humane death.

    Sako

    Got a call a few years back from a farmer who was having a problem during lambing. He was losing lambs to Blackback Gulls. The gulls would land next to newborn lambs and peck their eyes out then move on to the next lamb. He had to put down about 40 lambs in a 48hr period.
    Although he had shot a few gulls, at the first shot the birds would gain altitude and ride the thermals out of range until he moved on to the next paddock.They would then land and have another go.

    I arrived with my 12g and set up a hide before first light in one of his lambing paddocks. As it got lighter the first of the gulls arrived and swooped down on a lamb. As he flew over my head I deliberately aimed to break a wing on the bird and dropped it in the paddock about 35yds away. As the bird fell it set up a raucous calling and despite the gunshot all the other gulls within earshot made their way over to see what the problem was. As they came in range they were shot. When the winged bird succumbed to its wounds I again winged another one for a 'call' bird and ended up shooting about 50+ in just under 2 hrs. End of problem.

    If I had followed your reasoning it would have meant using enough shooters to cover the whole area during the hours of daylight for the lambing period. On a 4000acre property that would have involved at least 80-100 shooters 10 hrs a day for a period of 4 weeks minimum.

    Was the method effective? Yes.
    Was it humane? No.
    Was it the only way to deal with the problem? Yes

    While it is not the ideal way to cull, sometimes there is no other way.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,745 Senior Member
    Alec, you are such a savage.

    I only have one question for you.

    How did you manage to wing one on purpose? I would be doing good just to hit one.

    All kidding aside, personal ethics when killing animals, whether they are game animals, vermin, or whatever, are just that. Personal.

    I know I have shot prairie dogs that I did not kill, and have even watched a few drag themselves to the closest burrow where they no doubt died a slow, painful death. I didn't lose any sleep over it. I've put out rat/mouse poison, which will result in a slow, painful death for its intended prey. Again, no remorse. But, on a few rare occassions, I've wounded a game animal that I wasn't able to recover and felt terrible about it. I really don't know why one bothers me and others don't.

    What I do know, though, is that it's good for us as a community to occassionally revisit issues like this and examine why we do what we do, what we like and don't like, and to get opinions, views and reasons from others who see things differently. For that, Tom, thanks for raising this issue.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Alec, you are such a savage.

    I only have one question for you.

    How did you manage to wing one on purpose? I would be doing good just to hit one.

    .

    Easy enough to do Jerry, they have a large wingspan. Full choke with #2 lead and use a bit of 'hold off'.

    I agree with the rest of your post 100%.

    I too, get upset if I wing a bird or dont put an animal down immediately when hunting. But culling pests is not hunting. Thats why I choose my 'cullers' carefully, esp when for example, carrying out moult culls on flightless waterfowl.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Got a call a few years back from a farmer who was having a problem during lambing. He was losing lambs to Blackback Gulls. The gulls would land next to newborn lambs and peck their eyes out then move on to the next lamb. He had to put down about 40 lambs in a 48hr period.
    Although he had shot a few gulls, at the first shot the birds would gain altitude and ride the thermals out of range until he moved on to the next paddock.They would then land and have another go.

    I arrived with my 12g and set up a hide before first light in one of his lambing paddocks. As it got lighter the first of the gulls arrived and swooped down on a lamb. As he flew over my head I deliberately aimed to break a wing on the bird and dropped it in the paddock about 35yds away. As the bird fell it set up a raucous calling and despite the gunshot all the other gulls within earshot made their way over to see what the problem was. As they came in range they were shot. When the winged bird succumbed to its wounds I again winged another one for a 'call' bird and ended up shooting about 50+ in just under 2 hrs. End of problem.

    If I had followed your reasoning it would have meant using enough shooters to cover the whole area during the hours of daylight for the lambing period. On a 4000acre property that would have involved at least 80-100 shooters 10 hrs a day for a period of 4 weeks minimum.

    Was the method effective? Yes.
    Was it humane? No.
    Was it the only way to deal with the problem? Yes

    While it is not the ideal way to cull, sometimes there is no other way.

    Alec, as with most issues of a moral or ethical nature there are bound to be gray areas. your senario, I think, falls square in the gray. Wounding birds as you discribe on the surface would seem cruel but in the sense of greater good was a means to an end. It allowed for the elimination of a preditory threat that was causing significant suffering amoungst the new lambs. The intentional wounding of two birds likely allowed for the humane killing of the rest and ended the threat to the newborns.

    This bears no resenblance to the senario being discussed however. A poorly chosen shot in a hasty attempt to kill a fleeing animal without so much as an attempt at recovery has no greater good to fall back on. leaving that one hog for dead did not alieviate suffering or allow for the humane dispatch of other hogs. It was quite simply, a poorly chosen shot.
    My point thoughout this discussion has never been "poor piggy" It has been about my belief that we owe the game we hunt, however they be legally defined, our best effort at a clean death. Snake, IMHO dropped the ball here.

    Sako
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Sako,

    How do you feel about killing prairie dogs or wounding them to die?

    I tend to think that if you're calling what you do "hunting" then you need to kill the animal quickly and humanely. If you're just culling, well, as long as they die, you've accomplished your goals.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,048 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    My point thoughout this discussion has never been "poor piggy" It has been about my belief that we owe the game we hunt, however they be legally defined, our best effort at a clean death. Sako

    Agree 100% with the above comment.

    Which is why, when I carry out culls, I have to change my mindset and revert to my 'other' personality......( or should that be 'one of my other personalities' lol)
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
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