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Hog Hunt

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  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Alec, you are such a savage.

    I only have one question for you.

    How did you manage to wing one on purpose? I would be doing good just to hit one.

    All kidding aside, personal ethics when killing animals, whether they are game animals, vermin, or whatever, are just that. Personal.

    I know I have shot prairie dogs that I did not kill, and have even watched a few drag themselves to the closest burrow where they no doubt died a slow, painful death. I didn't lose any sleep over it. I've put out rat/mouse poison, which will result in a slow, painful death for its intended prey. Again, no remorse. But, on a few rare occassions, I've wounded a game animal that I wasn't able to recover and felt terrible about it. I really don't know why one bothers me and others don't.

    What I do know, though, is that it's good for us as a community to occassionally revisit issues like this and examine why we do what we do, what we like and don't like, and to get opinions, views and reasons from others who see things differently. For that, Tom, thanks for raising this issue.

    Jerry, the difference here is that it was not by design or intent. I woud wager your best effort was put forth to cleanly dispatch these PD's. Many factors can cause slight deviation to bullets in flight, beyond shooters control in other words.

    Sako
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    Sako,

    How do you feel about killing prairie dogs or wounding them to die?

    I tend to think that if you're calling what you do "hunting" then you need to kill the animal quickly and humanely. If you're just culling, well, as long as they die, you've accomplished your goals.

    I have no issue with shooting PD's as stated in response to Jerry's post. As long as we make our best effort ( how may times do I have to say that ) to kill them cleanly. It is a reality that some may be poorly hit and crawl away to die. I doubt there are any PD shooters here who sit there and say "hey, watch me wing this one"
    Sako
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Agree 100% with the above comment.

    Which is why, when I carry out culls, I have to change my mindset and revert to my 'other' personality......( or should that be 'one of my other personalities' lol)

    Believe it or not I do understand your logic here. Point being Snake was not on a cull, he was on a hunt as evidenced by the title of this thread. Regardless of the rancher wanting all the hogs killed, that was not the intention that day I do not believe. He was intent on hunting a hog and claiming some meat. In which case, hunters ethics need apply.

    Sako
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    I actually agree with you re: hunting vs. culls. I don't care how a cull animal dies, as long as it dies. It's my personal ethics, and I don't expect you to agree with it, simply because they're my ethics, not yours. If you agree with me, fine. If not, that's fine, too.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Please refer to the title of this thread. :popcorn:

    Yeah, that...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Following up on game is a big deal for me. I've lost shots at dove because I've wounded one and been beating the bushes trying to find the one I winged. And wouldn't you know it, a bunch flew in while I was looking. :bang: Oh well, that's hunting.

    Conversely, if I'm shooting rats, if one gets wounded and crawls off... so be it.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Alec, you are such a savage.

    I only have one question for you.

    How did you manage to wing one on purpose? I would be doing good just to hit one.

    All kidding aside, personal ethics when killing animals, whether they are game animals, vermin, or whatever, are just that. Personal.

    I know I have shot prairie dogs that I did not kill, and have even watched a few drag themselves to the closest burrow where they no doubt died a slow, painful death. I didn't lose any sleep over it. I've put out rat/mouse poison, which will result in a slow, painful death for its intended prey. Again, no remorse. But, on a few rare occassions, I've wounded a game animal that I wasn't able to recover and felt terrible about it. I really don't know why one bothers me and others don't.

    What I do know, though, is that it's good for us as a community to occassionally revisit issues like this and examine why we do what we do, what we like and don't like, and to get opinions, views and reasons from others who see things differently. For that, Tom, thanks for raising this issue.

    Very well said JerryBob, I agree. Also, to say that letting that hog go off to die didn't bother me just a twinge would be a lie. Yeah I'm human. It bugs me a tad. Well maybe a bit more than a tad. It's not pretty and it's not what I'm about when i hunt. But this is something that has, not needs to he done. If we don't get the hog population down, they will hurt the ability of the land to support any animals. That would be far more cruel than gut shooting one and not pursueing it. My saving grace in this case is that I believe that if I hit that hog where I was aiming (And I do believe this as I know where the crosshares were when I shot) that it died pretty fast. I don't believe it lingered long. I know where those cross hairs were when I touched that shot off. They were right where I said they were. And I know what a 130 grain GK will do and when you shoot where I did, there is almost no doubt that it wrecked his/her boiler room. It unfortunately for my freezer and meat supply it made it to the brush line.

    And Sako, I appreciate your moral values having to do with animals. And I appreciate your comments because as Jerry said, we all should think about that now and then. I believe it keeps us humane to do so.

    But in the end, I know that all species, human and hog included, will benefit from eradicating enough of these hogs to get the numbers more manageable. And when the land owner wants them shot on site, I will respond accordingly.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    I agree with you.

    What he thinks in his thin vailed 'ethics' is fine with me. I cannot change his mind as I can't change the direction a river flows. I feel one way and he feels another. That's life.

    But, in my eye, he is rather two faced and bends his 'ethics' to suit his fancy. I recall about a year or two ago getting called on the carpet by Snake and a few others for shooting game at greater distances that they considered 'ethical'. If you recall, it was a rather fun interaction. I was considered participating in an un-ethical practice because I shot further than Snake and a few others deemed satisfactory. Even Laz, who was a doofus in his own right, was flamed upon for the distances he shot.

    I just find this differing of ethical stances to be somewhat hypocritical. But hey, I'm the heretic who shoots animals too far. Least I didn't hunt a hog and shoot him in the butt without care or concern and not follow up on the shot. Maybe the hog wouldn't have been found, who knows. But an attempt afterwards or the use of a brain before the shot would have gone a long ways in my book.

    Oh well. Therein lay our differences.

    Like you said the thing about the river flowing, we can't change each other. I have since learned a few things (nope never too late for that) and I have had a recent revelation about this. However, no matter how morally arrogant I sounded back then, If you would have said you were shooting wild hogs you would have gotten NO static from me. I am not two faced about this, but rather multi faceted. I hold one belief for game animals and one for vermin. I have never condemned you or anyone for shooting at hogs at any distances.

    OK here's an example I have hit upon in the past. If you're a sniper in a wartime exercise, and you shoot at the enemy at a mile away, whether you kill him outright or wound him, is good either way. At least you put him out of commission and he will most likely require aid from his brethren which will take even more out of the fight.

    That is different when shooting at desireable game animals (Any game animal being desireable in my book). Shooting vermin (And believe me, hogs down here are considered vermin) I place the vermin in the same class with the enemy in a wartime situation. And whatever it takes we will do to kill them. Like I mentioned also, most land owners here want them shot on site, meaning that they don't care what you're doing, hunting deer or whatever, if they are allowing you to hunt on their land they expect you to put EVERYTHING on the back burner to shoot the hogs (And Coyotes) on site, even if it screws up your chance to bag a deer that day. So if I see a hog close to really thick cover that I refuse to enter for my own safety, it's good night Gracie, I'm shooting at it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Very well said JerryBob, I agree. Also, to say that letting that hog go off to die didn't bother me just a twinge would be a lie. Yeah I'm human. It bugs me a tad. Well maybe a bit more than a tad. It's not pretty and it's not what I'm about when i hunt. But this is something that has, not needs to he done. If we don't get the hog population down, they will hurt the ability of the land to support any animals. That would be far more cruel than gut shooting one and not pursueing it. My saving grace in this case is that I believe that if I hit that hog where I was aiming (And I do believe this as I know where the crosshares were when I shot) that it died pretty fast. I don't believe it lingered long. I know where those cross hairs were when I touched that shot off. They were right where I said they were. And I know what a 130 grain GK will do and when you shoot where I did, there is almost no doubt that it wrecked his/her boiler room. It unfortunately for my freezer and meat supply it made it to the brush line.

    And Sako, I appreciate your moral values having to do with animals. And I appreciate your comments because as Jerry said, we all should think about that now and then. I believe it keeps us humane to do so.

    But in the end, I know that all species, human and hog included, will benefit from eradicating enough of these hogs to get the numbers more manageable. And when the land owner wants them shot on site, I will respond accordingly.

    Wow, I stand corrected, poor shot placement and lazy follow up really was to benefit all of humanity. Who would have thunk It.

    Sako
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    So, how about a worm put on a hook to writhe in pain so it can be held in place while it is drowned?
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,745 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    So, how about a worm put on a hook to writhe in pain so it can be held in place while it is drowned?

    That used to bother me. Now, I think about the pain caused to the poor fish by the hook in its mouth.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    That used to bother me. Now, I think about the pain caused to the poor fish by the hook in its mouth.
    It seems fish can taste, but, with all the spinney things they eat, I wounder if they have pain sensation from the hook that makes them fight so hard or just the pull of the line.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Fish, along with worms, have primitive brains that don't really process "pain." Discomfort, yes, but not pain.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    I guess I am a real jerk when I boil those lobsters alive. I am sure I will get over it.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I guess I am a real jerk when I boil those lobsters alive. I am sure I will get over it.

    Only permitted if you eat them instead of boil and release.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Only permitted if you eat them instead of boil and release.
    Yes the old boil and release tactic. Release that dude in my belly.

    One more senario I want to run by my prosecuter. What if you're hunting private land? Say you leased the land from farmer Brown to hunt deer. Farmer White owns the land across the fence and Farmer White doesn't want anyone crossing his fence for any reason. You shoot a deer on Farmer Brown's land that you leased, but he didn't die out right and he ran and jumped the fence into Farmer White's land. And say Farmer White lives up in the next county. Farmer White is old fashion and doesn't believe in cell phones. You drive up to the next county to see him and explain that you need to go on his property to find your deer. First off, bye the time you get there, the deer has been suffering for a couple of hours. Then when you ask Farmer White if you can search his land for the deer to put it out of its misery, Farmer White says no, he doesn't want you on his property for any reason and he doesn't have time to go look for it himself. What do you do then? And before you shot at the deer you had to know that this happening was a possibility. You can say that i was more at fault because I knew outright that if the hog ran into the grass and brush I would cause the hog to suffer. But yet you shot a deer right next to your property line that you knew could jump the fence and die a lingering death suffering.

    This might seem a stretch, but there are always situations where this could happen. I don't worry about it. If the hog runs off and I hit it and I recover it, good for me. If not, it's all part of the game. I don't shoot game animals or pests with the intention they may not die outright and they may suffer. Every shot I make I consider a possible kill. However sometimes it doesnt' turn out that way. And like you said, I guess we have different ideas and mind set on this subject. I believe that if you lived here you would have a different opinion.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Be it a nuisance animal or not, it deserves to be killed clean or not at all. If he was concerned about going after it, the shot should not have been taken. Hunting ethics 101.

    Sako

    One more thing. Yeah so I called it hog hunting. Big deal, so does everybody around here. You're getting hung up on words and missing the point. Around here shooting hogs is not hunting in the traditional sense, but we all call it that. The better word is hog eradication. We just don't look at it the same way. This is war! The farmers, ranchers, and land owners here want you to shoot every hog you can get your sites on and not worry about hunting ethics or anything. All people around here want is for the hog to be down dead. So that's what I was doing, and That's what I will do next time. Like I said, it's akin to killing fire ants or killer bees or some other pest. The difference is you don't normally eat fire ants and killer bees, but hogs are damn good to eat.

    However, I have another plan. We can set really big traps and catch a couple thousand, which bye the way won't put a dent in the population, and put them in trucks and haul em up your way and you can kill them "Ethically."

    Do you remember that German guy shooting those hogs in that video about a month ago? Now you can't tell me that he didn't wing a few in the guts that ran off. And I would put money on it that he didn't go looking for survivors. Well those numbers of hogs is about what we have here. So tell me again about hunting them ethically.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    That's your opinion and you are definitely entitled to it, and this is my opinion and it's what it is.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,822 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Yes the old boil and release tactic. Release that dude in my belly.

    One more senario I want to run by my prosecuter. What if you're hunting private land? Say you leased the land from farmer Brown to hunt deer. Farmer White owns the land across the fence and Farmer White doesn't want anyone crossing his fence for any reason. You shoot a deer on Farmer Brown's land that you leased, but he didn't die out right and he ran and jumped the fence into Farmer White's land. And say Farmer White lives up in the next county. Farmer White is old fashion and doesn't believe in cell phones. You drive up to the next county to see him and explain that you need to go on his property to find your deer. First off, bye the time you get there, the deer has been suffering for a couple of hours. Then when you ask Farmer White if you can search his land for the deer to put it out of its misery, Farmer White says no, he doesn't want you on his property for any reason and he doesn't have time to go look for it himself. What do you do then? And before you shot at the deer you had to know that this happening was a possibility. You can say that i was more at fault because I knew outright that if the hog ran into the grass and brush I would cause the hog to suffer. But yet you shot a deer right next to your property line that you knew could jump the fence and die a lingering death suffering.

    This might seem a stretch, but there are always situations where this could happen. I don't worry about it. If the hog runs off and I hit it and I recover it, good for me. If not, it's all part of the game. I don't shoot game animals or pests with the intention they may not die outright and they may suffer. Every shot I make I consider a possible kill. However sometimes it doesnt' turn out that way. And like you said, I guess we have different ideas and mind set on this subject. I believe that if you lived here you would have a different opinion.

    Quite simple really. In your senario we know from the start that farmer Brown will not allow trespase on his property correct? Well since my conscience does dictate how I hunt, I simply don't shoot at anything anywhere near that property line. I have done so many time AAMOF.
    Now as I have said may times in this thread as long as we have made our best effort in our hunting tactics, we have done our job. No one is perfect and sure at some point a shot is going to miss it's mark and the game may get away. As long as a valid effort is made at recovery we have done our job. If you run into a fence you know you can't cross well then game over. You learn from that experience and try and do better next time.

    Sako
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    I don't believe I have tried to change your opinion anywhere in this thread. I think I have just stated mine. You have tried to change my mind and justify your actions repeatedly, it seems.

    If it is what it is, let it go.
    I let it go several days ago, but some of you keep bringing it up. Now tell me in all honesty, if you think you're right, won't you try to defend your position? Sure you will. But some of you on here have such strong will and conviction of your correctness you think you are right above us all. I'm letting it go but I won't stand up and be shot at without shooting back!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TxPhantomTxPhantom New Member Posts: 1 New Member
    I had a similar situation happen to me. I was in my blind late at night watching for movement under the feeder (with feeder light) when all of a sudden there was movement, plenty of movement! All I saw was big and small black forms rooting and snorting. I had my rifle out the window hoping to get a good shot for about five minutes when my cousin came rolling up in his deisel F350 truck to pick me up. Needless to say the hogs started scatering when the truck lights swept them. He saw them and stopped. There were a few greedy hogs left at the feeder but I knew I only had a few seconds to find a target so I shot the lightest collored one as quick as I could. Hit it broad side in the (couldn't tell front from back) and it started squeeling and running for the salt grass with it's hind legs sorta tucked in.
    We followed it in the tall salt grass to finish him off and found him only about ten yards in. Humanely dispatched him. I really felt bad about the bad shot and there was no way we were going to let in die that way.
    I can easily understand how a hunter can make a bad shot but I would not have let the poor little piggy die like that. It was cold enough that snakes weren't a problem but if it had been warmer we would have been wearing snake boots and gone in anyway. Come prepared! Wear snake boots and expect them to be needed when the snakes are out.
    Night tracking a wounded hog is dangerous so at least I would have come back the next day with snake boots and tracked him as far as possible.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Fish, along with worms, have primitive brains that don't really process "pain." Discomfort, yes, but not pain.

    Ahem..
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Yes?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,634 Senior Member
    TxPhantom

    Welcome aboard
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Ahem..

    Sometimes I have found there to be a fine line between discomfort and pain, :uhm::silly::yikes:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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