Is anybody watching the impeachment trial's opening statements?

Vic's Viewpoint

I hope everyone on this Forum gets a chance to watch the opening "position statements" of the impeachment trial, either live or pre-recorded, because they are riveting.  Shiff, for all  his partisanship, is one canny, sophisticated and eloquent spokesman for the pro-impeachment forces, but he has good competition on the other side.  The president didn't exactly hire stuttering, unfocused lightweights to represent him, either.  Already the sparks are flying, and it's only day one.  These are indeed "interesting times," and I daresay dangerous times as well.

zorba

Wife's watching it, I can't stomach it myself.

Jayhawker

At the moment, I find watching paint dry more riveting...perhaps when they get all the preliminary stuff done I'll try to find someplace that will give daily highlights...

earlyagain

I watched some of it.
Quite the contest of how wording things change the tone back and forth.

GunNut

What I watched was a rehash if the same tired points.  I wish it over swiftly.

Linefinder

GunNut said:

What I watched was a rehash if the same tired points.  I wish it over swiftly.

Yep....nothing new. Simple party-line voting is the norm nowadays.

Mike

Diver43

I was watching hoping to see Schumer have a stroke on National Television.
Same old Same old BS

GunNut

It was fun to see Schiff visibly FUMING shooting scathing looks while the Republicans were calling him a liar and beating him up by name relentlessly on national TV.

earlyagain

I got distracted with daily obligations and failed to realize the how long they'd been at it until I tuned in for the 6am London broadcast of the BBC news at 2300 hrs last night.

Its too bad the business of public service don't warrant the same effort.

Bigslug

The people who have to work won't watch it.

The people that can't afford a TV won't watch it.

Therefore those that WILL watch it will make for an interesting demographic.

Big Al1

At least when it's all over and Trump is found guiltless, it'll be like 2016 all over again!! Watching dems heads imploded!! 

JerryBobCo

I watched some of the later proceedings last night.  It seems that Chucky boy is hell bent on cluttering up the process with as many proposed amendments as possible.  They all had to do with issuing subpoenas for either documents or specific witness testimony.  And, when I quit watch, the first 5 had been tabled.  The vote to table was 53-47, along party lines.  The last one I saw was for John Bolton to testify.  I'm guessing it was tabled, too, but don't know.

I'll have to give congress one thing.  When it comes to pissing contests, they know their stuff.

zorba

As my wife says "We're PAYING them to do this...".

earlyagain

So basically, our government has amassed a multibillion dollar fortune. Financed by us. To be used to enrich the personal fortunes of our elected officials like the Bidens, and the political fortunes of our elected officials like the Trumps.

Its not impeachable or prosecutable because it's not illegal. And further more, if my side is so engaged, it's righteous.

And then, if the opposition is more successful at it 'we' are. Whomever 'we' happen to be. We'll tie up the wheels of government with political theatre in attempt to influence public perception in our favor.

Hurray for my side!
Really?

Accipiter

Pretty much.

zorba

Yep. "Political Theatre" indeed. I'd rather watch a Belly Dance show, the costumes are nicer!

Make_My_Day

The pathological lying traitor Schifft the commie ought to be hung. I volunteer to pull the ripcord!

sgtrock21

zorba said:

As my wife says "We're PAYING them to do this...".

And that is the unforgiveable travesty. 

earlyagain

Ive listened on and off nearly all day. I hear proof positive of abuse of power. I don't think its historically outstanding. So far I don't see high crimes and misdemeanors.

Without predisposition of overwhelming bipartisan support, the house should have let it go. Maybe tomorrow will convince me otherwise.

Bigslug

Make_My_Day said:

The pathological lying traitor Schifft the commie ought to be hung. I volunteer to pull the ripcord!

I was musing over the "doinky" satisfaction of an aluminum bat, but whatever floats your boat.

I have to wonder about the Democratic party presidential candidate senators who have to serve as jurors. . .  The whole impeachment stink got started under the presumption of using position to sink a political rival.  Would that not be exactly what Warren, Sanders, Klobuchar, etc...are about to do?  Can anybody say "RECUSE"?

Jermanator

earlyagain said:

Ive listened on and off nearly all day. I hear proof positive of abuse of power. I don't think its historically outstanding. So far I don't see high crimes and misdemeanors.

So if a police officer used the power of his position to get oral sex in exchange for using his discretion on a speeding ticket-- and the two parties being consenting adults-- isn't it somehow against the law? Should a social worker be able to request a "handy" in exchange for food stamps?

In private business, things like this are legal, but kind of sleazy. Trump could do that kind of stuff and usually get away with it as a private business owner. But now, he is president and using the exact same tactics. It is one thing when Trump did it with Trump money, it is entirely different when Trump uses that leverage with American taxpayer money.

Bigslug

Latest on Fox this morning - we've got 21 state A.G.'s opposing the impeachment on "extremely dangerous precedent/partisan nonsense" grounds.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if there was a single Democrat among them though.

earlyagain

Jermanator said:

earlyagain said:

Ive listened on and off nearly all day. I hear proof positive of abuse of power. I don't think its historically outstanding. So far I don't see high crimes and misdemeanors.

So if a police officer used the power of his position to get oral sex in exchange for using his discretion on a speeding ticket-- and the two parties being consenting adults-- isn't it somehow against the law? Should a social worker be able to request a "handy" in exchange for food stamps?

In private business, things like this are legal, but kind of sleazy. Trump could do that kind of stuff and usually get away with it as a private business owner. But now, he is president and using the exact same tactics. It is one thing when Trump did it with Trump money, it is entirely different when Trump uses that leverage with American taxpayer money.

Im going by a somewhat, but not entirely unsubstantiated position that past Presidents have done similar or worse. Ive suspected, again unsubstantiated, since the Muller investigation that the solicitation of foreign intervention in elections has become common practice. Trump beat Hillary at the tactic and here we are. I also strongly suspect that executive manipulation of foreign aid (think the Bidens) has been going on for a very long time.

I realize these points are unsubstantiated supposition. Guilty until proven innocent works for me here.

The specific glitch in this case is the question of a delay in payment versus money withheld. Has a crime been committed? If it hinges on a technicality, is that worth an impeachment and the consequences to the country? In the past it hasn't been. Specifically, the LBJ/Nixon election stands out in my mind. Johnson knew about Nixon's pre-election negotiating with VN., but remained publicly silent. Ive always wondered why. After recent events, I no longer do.

zorba

If there one thing that's obvious, nobody running this circus gives a tinker's damn about the country.

Jermanator

earlyagain said:

Specifically, the LBJ/Nixon election stands out in my mind. Johnson knew about Nixon's pre-election negotiating with VN., but remained publicly silent. Ive always wondered why. After recent events, I no longer do.

Nixon was ultimately forced to resign due to his corruption.

zorba

The only difference between Nixon and the rest of them is that Nixon got caught.

GunNut

Nixon used a couple of hired hands to spy on his opposition and the WORLD BLEW UP!!!  Obama and the DNC used the entire DOJ to go after their political opposition in 2016, while rigging their own internal processes to get Clinton on the ticket against their own people's will, and no one's heart rate even goes up ONE BEAT on that one.  

Biden is a horrendously crooked guy who used his position as VP and manager of Ukraine relationship on our country's behalf to hold over BILLION US$s to put a wall around his druggy loser of a son and yet our Government can't ask for an investigation because he's running for office?

Huh, interesting logic...

zorba

Ted Cruz isn't my favorite person, but my wife told me about an interesting comment he made today that sounds spot-on to me!

Jayhawker

The Democrats leading this **** show have said...more than once... ""The People" cannot be trusted with these decisions..."

Think about that...really think about it...imagine the termidity of an elected official that would utter those words...

This...after the Kavanaugh debacle, ensures I will never vote for a Democrat ...no matter who that Democrat may be...

earlyagain

Jermanator said:

earlyagain said:

Specifically, the LBJ/Nixon election stands out in my mind. Johnson knew about Nixon's pre-election negotiating with VN., but remained publicly silent. Ive always wondered why. After recent events, I no longer do.

Nixon was ultimately forced to resign due to his corruption.

Absolutely.
The thing in my minds is this. Regardless of anyones opinion of the character of those prosecuting "this," impeachment. They're very smart, and very familiar with congressional process. So much so, that they likely know the outcome of every vote, committee, or debate beforehand. Mitch McConnell don't even have any record keeping materials on his desk. This is a process prosecuted for a purpose not of its intention, and to the great harm of the country.

What remains to be determined is. Is the (what I believe to be) an obvious abuse of power to be be interpreted as impeachable crime. If not by the Senate than by us and the American people? Will it be satisfactorily resolved in the trial, or debated unresolved long into the future?

zorba

Jayhawker said:

The Democrats leading this **** show have said...more than once... ""The People" cannot be trusted with these decisions..."

Think about that...really think about it...imagine the termidity of an elected official that would utter those words...

This...after the Kavanaugh debacle, ensures I will never vote for a Democrat ...no matter who that Democrat may be...

"Deplorables"...

Typical executive class thinking - we get it from both gov't and industry.