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First day of church security team training with our sheriffs department

Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior MemberPosts: 2,412 Senior Member
edited January 2020 in General Firearms #1
Our church security team spent the entire day with with Young County Sheriff's department today learning how to protect our church and engage an active shooter.  First, every team member had to qualify shooting with the Sheriff's department.  Forty four rounds, from 3, 7, 10 and 15 yards, with strong hand only, weak hand and supported hand shooting.  For not shooting a pistol very much I did really well. 

We spent five hours on the range qualifying and doing live firing exercise drills.  One drill was sitting in a church pew at 10 yards.  There were two 50 gal drums on the front pew.  You had to sit behind one in the pew with your pistol holstered.  One of the deputies walked around with a shotgun behind you.  When the shotgun was fired you would be told to shoot the green or blue or both black silhouette targets.  You have 3 second to stand draw and shoot.  Sounds easy, nope no even close.  You had no idea where or when the shotgun was going to be fired.    I did OK on this drill but need lots of work.

The second drill there were a number of barrels and silhouette targets you had to run and serpentine through  to get to the shooter target.  The target was a full size gray head and a partial black head targets on each side of the gray target.  Don't shoot the gray good guy and you would be told right or left black target when you got to it.  You had 7 seconds.  Most of mine were in the 6 second range, a few good kills, couple of misses and a few dead good guys.  Again, not as easy as it looked, lots to work on.

After the shooting we headed back to the church to review entrances and exits and how to protect and engage a threat.  Can't go into details on this but it can get nuts.  A few questions that really made us think

1. What's a bad guy or threat look like?
2. What's the worst case scenario that could happen?
3. While in an active gun fight what's the worst sound you could hear.  Answer, click and empty gun.

The training from the Sheriff's department was phenomenal and intense.  Can't wait for our next training session with Sheriff's team.  Lot's of stuff each of us needs to work on in the mean time.

A day well spent!

 
Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

John 3: 1-21

Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,749 Senior Member
    Maybe it was part of the training you can't talk about, but........

    Seems to me the last church shooter in Texas had drawn suspicion from security before he even entered the church. That might be the time to stick to him like glue and and not be too subtle (from his perspective) about it.

    It's easier to defend outside the wire than inside the wire. 

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,970 Senior Member
    Sounds like interesting training. I'm glad to see that your church is taking training seriously and not just making a list of everyone who carries and patting themselves on the back for being "prepared."
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,412 Senior Member
    Maybe it was part of the training you can't talk about, but........

    Seems to me the last church shooter in Texas had drawn suspicion from security before he even entered the church. That might be the time to stick to him like glue and and not be too subtle (from his perspective) about it.

    It's easier to defend outside the wire than inside the wire. 

    Mike
    Yep a lot of what you said was covered again and again and tons more. A full day for sure  . 
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,749 Senior Member
    Glad to hear that, my friend.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Maybe pretty soon. Churches won't be wanted targets anymore.
  • dlddld Member Posts: 453 Member
    from the time the Church shooter raised his shot gun till he stopped was 4-5 seconds 

    practice, practice and practice
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,412 Senior Member
    dld said:
    from the time the Church shooter raised his shot gun till he stopped was 4-5 seconds 

    practice, practice and practice
    We went through the events of what happened in White Settlement.  Yes, many red flags were missed when he came in.  One little girl asked her dad, "why does that man have a fake beard on"!  He should have been approached when he entered the church.  Interesting thing the Sheriff said, if they approached him when he entered, one of a few things probably would have happened.  He would have drawn his weapon and attempted to start shooting right there.  He would have left and regrouped for plan B or another day.  If he made it inside the church the security would have had members shadowing him. 

    Your statement of practice, practice, practice is spot on.  The first and second people the shooter killed struggled with getting their weapons out of the holster.  That extra time got them helped the shooter.  The shooter who killed the bad guy taught self defense courses, drew his firearm quickly and made one kill shot, all told six seconds.

    I carry a 1911 45 acp.  My draw is pretty good, but I need to practice so I do it instinctively and not thinking about it or the what I need to do to draw.  Our church doesn't want open carry to alarm folks and guests.  Depending on what I'm wearing depends on what I have to do at the moment of truth. 
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #9
    ...
    First, every team member had to qualify shooting with the Sheriff's department.  Forty four rounds, from 3, 7, 10 and 15 yards, with strong hand only, weak hand and supported hand shooting. 
    ...
    We spent five hours on the range qualifying and doing live firing exercise drills. 
    ...
    One of the deputies walked around with a shotgun behind you.  When the shotgun was fired you would be told to shoot the green or blue or both black silhouette targets.  You have 3 second to stand draw and shoot.  Sounds easy, nope no even close.  You had no idea where or when the shotgun was going to be fired.
    ...
    The second drill there were a number of barrels and silhouette targets you had to run and serpentine through  to get to the shooter target.  The target was a full size gray head and a partial black head targets on each side of the gray target.
    Don't shoot the gray good guy and you would be told right or left black target when you got to it.
    You had 7 seconds.  Most of mine were in the 6 second range, a few good kills, couple of misses and a few dead good guys.  Again, not as easy as it looked, lots to work on.
    ...
    1. What's a bad guy or threat look like?
    2. What's the worst case scenario that could happen?
    3. While in an active gun fight what's the worst sound you could hear.  Answer, click and empty gun.
    ...

    A day well spent!
    Sounds like a very productive day, indeed! 👍
    I'm a huge advocate of "Blind-Stages" in IDPA. Unfortunately, many of the folks "in-charge" despise Blind-Stages (Blind-Stages have a way of really mucking up your score and more than a few novice competitors aren't up to the challenge).
    I suspect, the reality is most folks want to be told exactly what to do at every point in a stage or real event (wouldn't that be great -- you're about to be mugged by three BG's and this is when, where and how!) I also surmise, most folks don't really want to think on their feet, it might expose a reality they don't want revealed (that they're not that good!)
    I'm glad your Sheriff's department required you guys to think and not just relegate the day to some half-baked "skills test" for only time and accuracy. Afterall, shooting the right target among many possible targets is even more important than being just fast and accurate.
    Sounds like you guys got in some good training. Do yourself a favor and a practice the lessons learned and be even more ready for the next time. More importantly, if anything ever happens in church -- you'll be glad you came prepared.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,140 Senior Member
    Good to hear your group is doing this properly
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,126 Senior Member
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Good for you and your church for being proactive.  Get yourself a timer and use it during every practice session.  It’ll up your game significantly!  Best advise I’ve ever gotten and best money I ever spent.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Good for you and your church for being proactive.  Get yourself a timer and use it during every practice session.  It’ll up your game significantly!  Best advise I’ve ever gotten and best money I ever spent.
    The Timer don’t lie. The great humbler and keeper of standards. 

    Think you’re awesome?  Get a timer and shoot small. 😳
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    GunNut said:
    Good for you and your church for being proactive.  Get yourself a timer and use it during every practice session.  It’ll up your game significantly!  Best advise I’ve ever gotten and best money I ever spent.
    The Timer don’t lie. The great humbler and keeper of standards. 

    Think you’re awesome?  Get a timer and shoot small. 😳
    Yep, made me a whole new level of humble...
  • bellcatbellcat Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Sounds effective! I’m thinking this type of training is going to be taught and practiced for many public institutions.
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,575 Senior Member
    edited January 2020 #16
    Excellent training.  My Sheriff's Office has training for civilians as well, but not as extensive and not geared toward any particular group.  White Settlement was a wake-up for people who thought the church and good will would protect them. 

    BTW, to honor your local sheriff, it's Sheriff's Office, which is not a department under some higher governmental authority. At least in my state. It's kind of a sensitive thing with sheriffs.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,590 Senior Member
    Great stuff.  I'd like it if my church did the same, but it doesn't seem likely. 
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
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