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March blows past record for gun background checks amid coronavirus pandemic

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  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Just got back from the grocery store. State Police near the entrance. People are on edge. Including me.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,262 Senior Member
    Stocking up now?  That's cute.  Better now than never I suppose.  Hope they all remember this come November.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 776 Senior Member
    My take on it is that if we make an effort to take as many of the newbies under our wings as possible and get them to both learn safe gun handling and to enjoy the shooting sports, this is an unprecedented opportunity to gain more widespread support for the 2nd Amendment.
    Couldn't have said it any better. 
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Gotta have some way to protect all that TP and hand sanitizer.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,047 Senior Member
    I might run out of TP. Never saw that coming.

    But guns and ammo? I could do this 15 more times and still not make a dent.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,638 Senior Member
    400K is a big number.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 328 Member
    edited April 9 #9

    I do not know if other states have been impacted by an ATF ruling issued at the beginning of March, but I assume Michigan is not the only one.  Since 2006 a Michigan resident in possession of a valid CCW / CPL issued after 2005 did not require a NICS check to purchase from an FFL holder.  Since March 4, 2020 the new rule requires a NICS check on all persons in Michigan regardless of CPL status since it has been determined that people in this state may be habitual marijuana users (since recreational use is now legal here) who are still in possession of, or are able to still obtain, a CPL in Michigan.

    This ruling would account for at least a portion of the increase in NICS background checks in March, since CPL holders who may have been 'panic' buying are now part of the NICS statistics where they would have not been counted prior to March 4.

    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 328 Member
    So basically it appears that since Michigan has not implemented any program to determine who does or does not smoke pot in this state, it is now assumed by the ATF that we all do.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Some_Mook said:
    So basically it appears that since Michigan has not implemented any program to determine who does or does not smoke pot in this state, it is now assumed by the ATF that we all do.
    They don't assume anything.  If you smoke pot and don't say so on your 4473 you commit a crime.  No matter what your state says, it is still illegal at the federal level and it is a federal form.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 328 Member
    Diver43 said:
    Some_Mook said:
    So basically it appears that since Michigan has not implemented any program to determine who does or does not smoke pot in this state, it is now assumed by the ATF that we all do.
    They don't assume anything.  If you smoke pot and don't say so on your 4473 you commit a crime.  No matter what your state says, it is still illegal at the federal level and it is a federal form.



    I don't smoke pot or use any illegal substances or abuse alcohol and I answer all the 4473 form questions honestly and accurately.  For the past 14 years I had been able, as a CPL holder, to purchase firearms from an FFL holder without the delay of a NICS background check.  Now I must be delayed because the ATF assumes that anyone in this state with a CPL may be a user of a Federally prohibited drug.  The ATF changed their rule because someone decided that they did not think Michigan is adequately vetting the people being issued CPLs in this state.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    The ATF isnt assuming everyone in Mi is a user.  The issue is people that had a valid CPL, then decided to start using weed since its legal in Mi, but did not relinquish their CPL and then use it to purchase a handgun without filling out the 4473.  The solution right now is to just make everyone fill out a 4473.  Classic example of a few turds ruining it for everyone.
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,122 Senior Member
    edited April 10 #14
    The way it was already set up in Florida was that every purchase required a background check, regardless of whether or not you have a CCW.  The advantage the CCW holders have is that we get to skip the 3 day waiting period and walk out the door with our purchase on the spot.  The background check costs $5 and normally only takes a few minutes......unless there happens to be a gun show going on somewhere in the state.  That tends to back up the system a little.
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 328 Member
    mitdr774 said:
    The ATF isnt assuming everyone in Mi is a user.  The issue is people that had a valid CPL, then decided to start using weed since its legal in Mi, but did not relinquish their CPL and then use it to purchase a handgun without filling out the 4473.  The solution right now is to just make everyone fill out a 4473.  Classic example of a few turds ruining it for everyone.


    No matter if it is a long gun or a handgun, every purchase in the USA and territories made from an FFL dealer requires form 4473 to be filled out.  Possessing a valid CPL does not negate this requirement.  Form 4473 is kept on file by the FFL dealer until they no longer do business as an FFL dealer (at which point their records are sent to the ATF which places them in a Federal warehouse)  The Feds are never in possession of completed Form 4473 until the FFL dealer relinquishes possession, although they can be inspected as part of the FFL regulatory process. 

    In Michigan, a handgun purchase, regardless of where or whom it was purchased from, requires a separate form to be filled out in triplicate, one kept by the purchaser, one kept by the FFL dealer if there was one and one form physically submitted to the local police or sheriff's department (who then relays that to the Michigan State Police)

    The NICS check will not flag anyone who should be denied a firearm purchase who has not been reported to the NICS system as a violator of relevant laws to the legal purchase, ownership or possession of a firearm.  Falsifying form 4473, or not surrendering a CPL voluntarily if the holder decides to no longer meet the requirements of having a CPL are illegal acts, but unless the person is caught out there is never a flag raised through NICS.  Put another way, it's only criminal if one gets caught.

    CPL holders in Michigan, who violate the regulations of their license but never get caught, will not be denied making a purchase using the NICS system.

    I personally believe that firearm possession and ownership for law abiding citizens of the United States is a Constitutional Right. 

    I believe that not having to submit to a NICS check as a CPL holder is (was) a privilege. Taking away an established privilege from someone who has not violated that privilege is what I find onerous. 

    I do not feel that the Federal Government should be "in my business" when I am doing nothing wrong.

    Even though it is against Federal Law for the Federal Government to keep a firearm owner's data base, the NICS check requires the transmission of data about each particular firearm being purchased - the type, action and caliber. 

    Why would this be relevant to determining if a person should fail a NICS check? (if someone was attempting to purchase something from an FFL that required a Tax license, but did not present that license to the dealer before beginning the transaction a NICS check would never even be initiated as the sales process would never even begin) 

    If this information is not relevant, why collect it if it is not going into a Federal data base? 

    For that matter, why does Form 4473 require a person to indicate their race or ethnicity?  What relevance does that have to the process?

    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
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