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9mm and .357 Sig - Terminal Performance Testing

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  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,595 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    The next cartridge I’m testing will be my 185gr Gold Dot .45 ACP handload @ 1.125 fps. 



    This I look forward to seeing the results from.  I have been loading .45 with 185gr Sierra Sports Master JHP bullets since they seem to shoot really well out of my .45s.  A switch to the Speer Gold Dot has been planned though.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    Fantastic stuff.  Your reports are world class.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Please let’s stick with you shooting. 😁

    Sorry, I was a bit disappointed the that .357 test was not done perfectly For a comparison.   I specially wanted to see the difference between the .357 and the pig you shot with the .40 a while back.  
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,555 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    ...
    With rifles, I prefer heavy for caliber bullets, though I’ve started using some lighter ones just to play around and expand........my horizons. 

    But with pistols, I’m beginning to like speed (with adequate weight). 

    Preferences:
    9mm - 124gr +p
    .357 Mag - 158gr
    .40 S&W - 155/165gr
    10mm - 180gr
    .45 ACP - 185/200gr

    Though I cant argue with the 147gr performance yesterday. 
    I think I see a pattern here.
    9mm and .357 vary in bullet diameter by only 2/100". A 124 gr. +P 9mm round will move anywhere from 1200 to around 1300 fps and that's easy enough to do with a .357 and a 158 gr. bullet.
    Similarly, a 40 S&W can move a 155 grain bullet between 1200 and 1300 fps, something that's very doable with a 10 mm moving a 180 bullet. Likewise, you can get a .45 ACP close to 1200 (around 1150 with factory ammo) with the 185 grain bullet -- up to 1300 fps with .45 Super brass.
    So, can I assume that you would be happy using a heavier bullet if a certain velocity threshold is met? That threshold velocity being a range that you have decided on -- or am I just seeing bunnies and squirrels in the clouds?
    Just curious. 🤔
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 26,109 Senior Member
    That threshold in defensive rounds seems to work well. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Great exploration here.  It just goes to show you: animals die differently seemingly every time.  I've had double lungers drop on the spot and other run 200 yards.  This is another example of that.  I'm also impressed at the effectiveness of both rounds on such big animals.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,572 Senior Member
    Excellent.  This is like a master class.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,122 Senior Member
    I would love for Zee to test some Barnes .357 Magnum TAC-XPD in 125gr out of a 3" barreled 686 on some piggies.........for science......yeah, science.  Has nothing to do with the fact that I carry that combo pretty much every day.....
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 26,109 Senior Member
    I would love for Zee to test some Barnes .357 Magnum TAC-XPD in 125gr out of a 3" barreled 686 on some piggies.........for science......yeah, science.  Has nothing to do with the fact that I carry that combo pretty much every day.....
    Eeeash!  That’s not a load I carry or have. That a pretty niche load. 
    I’m not saying it can’t be done. But, you’d have to send me two rounds or so. I ain’t buying or loading that bullet. 
    I don’t have a 3” .357 Mag. 
    I have a 340 M&P and a 4” GP100. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,122 Senior Member
    edited May 2020 #41
    Sending you a couple of rounds would not be a problem.  Wouldn't be quite the same as a 3" but I bet it would be close.  Or if I am ever in your area maybe we could get together for some "science experiments".  I almost always take my 686 with me when I go West....but not if I go too far West (California).

    I chose that load based on the ballistics testing Lucky Gunner did, but would love to see what it did on a pig.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 26,109 Senior Member
    Depending on how many pigs we trap, it’s not a far fetched experiment. Just may not be an immediate one. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,852 Senior Member
    Sending you a couple of rounds would not be a problem.  Wouldn't be quite the same as a 3" but I bet it would be close.  Or if I am ever in your area maybe we could get together for some "science experiments".  I almost always take my 686 with me when I go West....but not if I go too far West (California).

    I chose that load based on the ballistics testing Lucky Gunner did, but would love to see what it did on a pig.
    I've seen his videos. Its hard to know if we can trust them. I mean, he may have just been, well, lucky?.......
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 326 Member
    We have been doing similar testing with hogs( average 120 lbs) in a trap( 4x8 rooter style)- no autopsies. 
    Proper shot placement with any medium weight HP self defense ammo in 9mm, 38 spl +p, and 357 have produced very similar results- 1 lap and all done but the thrashing and squealing. 1 to the head usually DRT with a little kicking. 
    17 HMR in the ear kills them stone dead 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 26,109 Senior Member
    We have been doing similar testing with hogs( average 120 lbs) in a trap( 4x8 rooter style)- no autopsies. 
    Proper shot placement with any medium weight HP self defense ammo in 9mm, 38 spl +p, and 357 have produced very similar results- 1 lap and all done but the thrashing and squealing. 1 to the head usually DRT with a little kicking. 
    17 HMR in the ear kills them stone dead 
    If it ain’t on paper.........it didn’t happen. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • AxeAxe Member Posts: 421 Member
    Great post. I’m a big fan of .357sig and it has a great reputation as a defensive round, but ideally shot placement is everything. I pig that has been shot with a fast round like the .357 will most definitely run until it bleeds out. Pig flesh is probably the closest thing to human flesh, so this would be a fair indication of what would happen to a human hit with these rounds, with the exception of behavior once shot. Humans tend to go into shock and stop fighting sooner than pigs barring factors like narcotics etc. There is also good reason why Pd’s are swinging back towards 9mm. It is a very capable round.
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,604 Senior Member
    Excellent and informative as usual.
    I always learn from your work. 👍
    Anyone familiar with the Strasbourg tests?
    Probably couldn't pull that one off today.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,421 Senior Member
    Always interesting and educational.  Thanks for taking the time to share.
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