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Nostalgia - Rossi .38 Spl

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Replies

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,802 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I caved. I just ordered 200 of these. 

    Science!!
    Nice!! 

    Looking forward to your results.  I might just have to order some to play with. 
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,145 Senior Member
    edited May 22 #63
    Since you have a gun that is not +P rated, my pig death request is pretty simple and cheap on this one, and follows on my discussion points from the 147 grain 9mm Winchester Bonded kill:

    130 or 158 grain full metal jacket flat points, or 158 grain SWC solids.  This would allow us to stay in .35 calibers for straight comparison of ballistic concepts; would penetrate adequately to compare non-expanding with expanding of about the same speed class as that 9mm shot; would test the usefulness of the concept of meplat without speed to do a lot of radial displacement (a .357 would give us the "with speed" data); would give us a fair idea of how the same concept applied to the .380 would perform as the profile and speed would be about the same - only difference would be weight, and THAT could be compared in jugs or gel.

    I would also like to see the effect of wadcutters driven at about the same speed as above.  Sure, they'll penetrate less than the FMJFN's, but they about have to do better than the HORRID old 110 grain HP's that tended to pancake shallow.

    And true science would not be complete without .35 caliber round nose jacketed or lead.

    All of which would stand to answer A LOT of questions.

    It occurs to me that in the historical context of the Thompson-LaGarde tests, you are both Thompson AND LaGarde!

    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,241 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    The parts inside that rotate the cylinder and hold its barrel alignment are subjected to flex during ignition. These can wind up being the weak link. 
    Yeah, I didn’t ask the GS what was wrong, back then I was too ignorant to know.   But, something locked up and I couldn’t shoot or open the cylinder. These days, I know it could have been a pulled bullet or the mechanism itself. Either way.......my gun was a dead stick. 

    BTW: I was using Georgia Arms +p ammo. Don’t remember the weight. 


    Two thoughts, only because I hate unresolved mysteries.  Georgia Arms is NOT a SAAMI member which means they MAY NOT be loading to the standard as the members are.  In other words their +P could be anything they decide it to be.  I looked in their website and I saw no mention of SAMMI.

    Also ultralight frames are by design more prone to bullets jumping out of their cases and locking up the gun.  Steel guns don't tend to have that issue.  As I said neither my vintage 36 or my 1970s 60 has had any issues with occasional use of +P.  Again not trying to convince you one way or another, just exploring the subject deeper for general information sake.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Since.....
    Unfortunately, I don’t see those tests happening. Other than maybe the Target Load Wadcutters, just to prove or disprove their effectiveness as a defensive round as Eli purported from YouTube lore. Hell, if the work, I have an ammo can full of them! 

    All that other stuff would require a lot of pigs and I’ve now got to share the test medium with the man who traps them. He has loads he wants to test as well. 

    I do have him convinced to try my .44 ACP load next. Then I think he wants to test something. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    The parts inside that rotate the cylinder and hold its barrel alignment are subjected to flex during ignition. These can wind up being the weak link. 
    Yeah, I didn’t ask the GS what was wrong, back then I was too ignorant to know.   But, something locked up and I couldn’t shoot or open the cylinder. These days, I know it could have been a pulled bullet or the mechanism itself. Either way.......my gun was a dead stick. 

    BTW: I was using Georgia Arms +p ammo. Don’t remember the weight. 


    Two thoughts, only because I hate unresolved mysteries.  Georgia Arms is NOT a SAAMI member which means they MAY NOT be loading to the standard as the members are.  In other words their +P could be anything they decide it to be.  I looked in their website and I saw no mention of SAMMI.

    Also ultralight frames are by design more prone to bullets jumping out of their cases and locking up the gun.  Steel guns don't tend to have that issue.  As I said neither my vintage 36 or my 1970s 60 has had any issues with occasional use of +P.  Again not trying to convince you one way or another, just exploring the subject deeper for general information sake.
    No, I agree on both those points. But I also know, that gun turned into a paperweight at the pull of the trigger. That is not something I want to trifle with when considering defensive loads to carry. It might work great!  It might not work at all.  Not the gamble I want to roll dice on. 
    Not when there are other options. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,241 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    The parts inside that rotate the cylinder and hold its barrel alignment are subjected to flex during ignition. These can wind up being the weak link. 
    Yeah, I didn’t ask the GS what was wrong, back then I was too ignorant to know.   But, something locked up and I couldn’t shoot or open the cylinder. These days, I know it could have been a pulled bullet or the mechanism itself. Either way.......my gun was a dead stick. 

    BTW: I was using Georgia Arms +p ammo. Don’t remember the weight. 


    Two thoughts, only because I hate unresolved mysteries.  Georgia Arms is NOT a SAAMI member which means they MAY NOT be loading to the standard as the members are.  In other words their +P could be anything they decide it to be.  I looked in their website and I saw no mention of SAMMI.

    Also ultralight frames are by design more prone to bullets jumping out of their cases and locking up the gun.  Steel guns don't tend to have that issue.  As I said neither my vintage 36 or my 1970s 60 has had any issues with occasional use of +P.  Again not trying to convince you one way or another, just exploring the subject deeper for general information sake.
    No, I agree on both those points. But I also know, that gun turned into a paperweight at the pull of the trigger. That is not something I want to trifle with when considering defensive loads to carry. It might work great!  It might not work at all.  Not the gamble I want to roll dice on. 
    Not when there are other options. 
    I absolutely get it.  Thanks for humoring me.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,145 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Bigslug said:
    Since.....
    Unfortunately. . .
    Oh assuredly.  The bottleneck is indeed the availability of live ham, and itches have to be scratched accordingly.  My thinking is that if you get systematic with your slaughter, we'll start getting a pool of data that lets us say "this new round is similar enough in (insert dimensional or performance characteristic of choice here) to what I killed a pig with six months ago that we probably don't need to shoot it"  Ultimate goal being efficient use of available swine time.

    Suggestion for the title of your memoirs:  Forensic Adventures in the Bay of Pigs, which coincidentally is now the name of your pig trap. :)
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,066 Senior Member
    edited May 22 #69
    I have the answer!  It's simple if you just think about it..... you just need to trap more pigs.










    Why are you still standing there?  Go!  Trap pigs!  Science (and our entertainment) are depending on you.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    I love y’all’s enthusiasm at my expense. 😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,850 Senior Member
    Show of hands, who has ever seen Zee take the easy route?
    He hasn't taken the easy route since he left the Shire. Have you seen his feet?
    😁

    I went perusing around the web and found this load data. It could be useful as a starting point.
    These were the non +P offerings.
    I load for 38 Special also but I haven't tried Unique yet. I have a few pounds in storage but I normally use HP-38 for competition.
    I was gonna suggest using the Barnes TAC-XP 110 grain copper bullet. I haven't tried them myself but I was hoping to get some feedback on them. Seeing how there on the pricey side, I withdraw my suggestion 😉
    Can't wait to see what you come up with. I'm still looking for some lightweight, large hollow point lead bullets to try out. Somehow, at non +P short barrel speeds, I think a light bullet might work better. I'll keep searching. Keep us updated.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,145 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I love y’all’s enthusiasm at my expense. 😁
    Riding vicariously on the lands of your rifling. :p
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Show of hands, who has ever seen Zee take the easy route?
    He hasn't taken the easy route since he left the Shire. Have you seen his feet?
    😁

    I went perusing around the web and found this load data. It could be useful as a starting point.
    These were the non +P offerings.
    I load for 38 Special also but I haven't tried Unique yet. I have a few pounds in storage but I normally use HP-38 for competition.
    I was gonna suggest using the Barnes TAC-XP 110 grain copper bullet. I haven't tried them myself but I was hoping to get some feedback on them. Seeing how there on the pricey side, I withdraw my suggestion 😉
    Can't wait to see what you come up with. I'm still looking for some lightweight, large hollow point lead bullets to try out. Somehow, at non +P short barrel speeds, I think a light bullet might work better. I'll keep searching. Keep us updated.

    That’s my plan. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    My bullets shipped today!  They will be here before the gun is home!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    I have the answer!  It's simple if you just think about it..... you just need to trap more pigs.










    Why are you still standing there?  Go!  Trap pigs!  Science (and our entertainment) are depending on you.
    I asked my buddy when he was gonna set the trap again and he said he would
    set it this weekend. 






    Science!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    Also had another farmer call and say he had seen 40-60 pigs in a field this week. Wanted me to come take care of them. Will be going and seeing the location next week to make a plan. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,719 Senior Member
    I know its terribly contrary. I wonder if one could put a timed auto feeder in low spot. Plant charges 360° around a 50 yard radius. And blow a hog killing crater that would swallow 50 pigs. Probly cost too much for the explosives and excavation repair.....

    Make a good video though.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    I know its terribly contrary. I wonder if one could put a timed auto feeder in low spot. Plant charges 360° around a 50 yard radius. And blow a hog killing crater that would swallow 50 pigs. Probly cost too much for the explosives and excavation repair.....

    Make a good video though.
    https://youtu.be/2KgAilTTZnQ
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,410 Senior Member
    Those look like great bullets Zee! Can’t wait to see the science!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,241 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I caved. I just ordered 200 of these. 

    Science!!
    This should be fun!  And to think for so many years I believed the common wisdom that you absolutely needed tough .44 mag bullets to kill pigs.  Folks made it sound like anything less would bounce off their sides.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    edited May 23 #81
    Zee said:
    Everything I’ve read on the Rossi is that they are not rated or recommended for +p ammo. 

    As to every modern gun being rated. Yeah, that’s what I thought. So I ignored the recommendations and fired a cylinder through my then S&W 442 Airweight. 
    5 rounds......cool no problem. Reloaded and it was either the 6th or 7th that totally locked my gun up. Had to take it to a gunsmith to get the cylinder to unfreeze and open. 

    So, we have theory and reality. 
    That's not bullet pull.  Bullet pull usually happens when you fire 3-4 out of a 5 shooter, or 4-5 out of a 5 shot, and then reload and the leftover bullet creeps forward.

    I would guess it's most likely the ejector rod backed out and tied it up.  I've had that happen with other revolvers. The ejector rod is reverse-threaded, by the way.  So if it starts backing out, each cylinder rotation makes it back out even further.  It's a self-aggravating problem. 

    I doubt it was actually caused by the ammo, but by use.  It happened to me with a N-frame .357 shooting light .38 Special ammo. Not an overstressed action.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Everything I’ve read on the Rossi is that they are not rated or recommended for +p ammo. 

    As to every modern gun being rated. Yeah, that’s what I thought. So I ignored the recommendations and fired a cylinder through my then S&W 442 Airweight. 
    5 rounds......cool no problem. Reloaded and it was either the 6th or 7th that totally locked my gun up. Had to take it to a gunsmith to get the cylinder to unfreeze and open. 

    So, we have theory and reality. 
    That's not bullet pull.  Bullet pull usually happens when you fire 3-4 out of a 5 shooter, or 4-5 out of a 5 shot, and then reload and the leftover bullet creeps forward.

    I would guess it's most likely the ejector rod backed out and tied it up.  I've had that happen with other revolvers. The ejector rod is reverse-threaded, by the way.  So if it starts backing out, each cylinder rotation makes it back out even further.  It's a self-aggravating problem. 

    I doubt it was actually caused by the ammo, but by use.  It happened to me with a N-frame .357 shooting light .38 Special ammo. Not an overstressed action.
    Hey new guy, nobody asked you!




    😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,066 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Show of hands, who has ever seen Zee take the easy route?

    I was gonna suggest using the Barnes TAC-XP 110 grain copper bullet. I haven't tried them myself but I was hoping to get some feedback on them.

    I carry the Barnes TAC-XP 125 grain .357 in my 686.  Ballistics test results in gel look really good, but I would love to see what effect they have on a pig.

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,846 Senior Member
    I have a decent sized stash of the old S&W Nyclad "Chief Special" 125gr SWC-HP bullets. The have a HUGE deep HP in them and at ~ 800 fps do wonderfully in wet newsprint.

    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    That’s encouraging. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,517 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    I caved. I just ordered 200 of these. 

    Science!!
    This should be fun!  And to think for so many years I believed the common wisdom that you absolutely needed tough .44 mag bullets to kill pigs.  Folks made it sound like anything less would bounce off their sides.
    Well, hopefully we can catch enough pigs to test these as well. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,241 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Everything I’ve read on the Rossi is that they are not rated or recommended for +p ammo. 

    As to every modern gun being rated. Yeah, that’s what I thought. So I ignored the recommendations and fired a cylinder through my then S&W 442 Airweight. 
    5 rounds......cool no problem. Reloaded and it was either the 6th or 7th that totally locked my gun up. Had to take it to a gunsmith to get the cylinder to unfreeze and open. 

    So, we have theory and reality. 
    That's not bullet pull.  Bullet pull usually happens when you fire 3-4 out of a 5 shooter, or 4-5 out of a 5 shot, and then reload and the leftover bullet creeps forward.

    I would guess it's most likely the ejector rod backed out and tied it up.  I've had that happen with other revolvers. The ejector rod is reverse-threaded, by the way.  So if it starts backing out, each cylinder rotation makes it back out even further.  It's a self-aggravating problem. 

    I doubt it was actually caused by the ammo, but by use.  It happened to me with a N-frame .357 shooting light .38 Special ammo. Not an overstressed action.

    Wow!  Brother Bream is back!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,425 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Also had another farmer call and say he had seen 40-60 pigs in a field this week. Wanted me to come take care of them. Will be going and seeing the location next week to make a plan. 

    That sounds like FUN!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,241 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    I caved. I just ordered 200 of these. 

    Science!!
    This should be fun!  And to think for so many years I believed the common wisdom that you absolutely needed tough .44 mag bullets to kill pigs.  Folks made it sound like anything less would bounce off their sides.
    Well, hopefully we can catch enough pigs to test these as well. 
    That would be awesome!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,850 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    Everything I’ve read on the Rossi is that they are not rated or recommended for +p ammo. 

    As to every modern gun being rated. Yeah, that’s what I thought. So I ignored the recommendations and fired a cylinder through my then S&W 442 Airweight. 
    5 rounds......cool no problem. Reloaded and it was either the 6th or 7th that totally locked my gun up. Had to take it to a gunsmith to get the cylinder to unfreeze and open. 

    So, we have theory and reality. 
    That's not bullet pull.  Bullet pull usually happens when you fire 3-4 out of a 5 shooter, or 4-5 out of a 5 shot, and then reload and the leftover bullet creeps forward.

    I would guess it's most likely the ejector rod backed out and tied it up.  I've had that happen with other revolvers. The ejector rod is reverse-threaded, by the way.  So if it starts backing out, each cylinder rotation makes it back out even further.  It's a self-aggravating problem. 

    I doubt it was actually caused by the ammo, but by use.  It happened to me with a N-frame .357 shooting light .38 Special ammo. Not an overstressed action.

    Wow!  Brother Bream is back!!!
    Someone let the war monkey out of purgatory.
    Welcome back 👍
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,850 Senior Member
    These could be interesting.

    Factory Second Bullets 38 Caliber (357 Diameter) 130 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 100 (Bulk Packaged)

    Currently $16.09 per 100 (16 ¢ per bullet)
    I might have to grab some just to play with.


    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

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