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She finally arrived...

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  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Thanks for the info. I’ll try to be careful with it. There’s really only one of them I want at this point. 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,588 Senior Member
    Have I mentioned I HATE you?!?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    But.... I got some new toys.... just so I can figure this stuff out before you get yours.. save you some time. Just looking out for you.. 😁

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,588 Senior Member
    Uh-huh. 😒
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Quick update...

    I was not able to do any shooting over the weekend. The weekend turned into a mess dealing with rain and a field full of hay.. Finally got that taken care of yesterday. But, I'd rather wait until my Lee Shaver front sight insert card gets here before I go out again anyway. Might as well try to address as many issues that I identified last time as possible.

    I did spend some time on Saturday getting a few more loads ready.  I drifted the front sight a bit to the right, since the gun was hitting to the right last time. 

    I got my Montana 320gr HP-GC bullets in and got a few of them loaded up for next range session.  I weighed several of these bullets and get an actual average of 318 grains.  I also found out that the seating stem in my RCBS die doesn't play very well with wide flat nosed lead bullets.  It pushes up a ring of lead around the nose of the bullet.

    Also, I got the Hornady modified case for my OAL gauge and started setting up to use it. Two problems. The first I should have already known, since I ran into the same problem with my 450 Bushmaster; I don't have a bullet comparator insert for 45 caliber bullets... oops..  Second, the modified case is sized a bit too small for the cast lead bullets I'm using. I didn't measure it, but I'm guessing it's sized to .457. I just touched it a little with my case expander, without getting to the step up that flares the case.  That worked for the 320 grain bullets.  Not the 500 grain, since the case wasn't expanded deep enough for them. But, with the 320 grain, I was at least able to get a measurement to the lands and use OAL from there.  Which pretty much put the case mouth in the crimp groove anyway.


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    One more thing in my quest to get the 500 grain bullets to just under supersonic.

    I don't think I can get enough Trail Boss in the cases to get them up to 1000fps. My last test with 12 grains had them at 883fps.  I can probably bump up to 13 grains with those bullets before it'll start to compress the powder, and that's not likely to get over 100fps gain.

    So, looking at load data in the Lyman manual for the 1883 Springfield (mild loads), I see that it showed starting load of IMR3031 at 1300fps out of a 30" barrel with a 500 grain cast bullet.  So, I'm off the reservation a bit at 3 grains under that recommended starting load.  But 3 grains is a tiny volume of 3031 and the powder is still pretty close to the base of the bullet when seated.  Only loaded a few of them, but I'm gonna see what they can do. I'm curious.  I'm betting they'll be supersonic, but I'll learn something..
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,588 Senior Member
    Good info!!

    Those hollow points look interesting. Will be looking to see if they expand. 

    H4198

    Just say’n. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    I use a flat seating stem with most of my cast bullets.  For my .458x1.8 I have to use pistol or shotgun powders and some wads to keep around 1100 fps.  I want to say I was using a 0.030" fiber, 0.125" lubes, and 0.060" fiber wad stack with my 576gr ACME and something like 15.5gr of Blue Dot.  The wad stack ate up just about all the air space between the base of the bullet and the powder.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Good info!!

    Those hollow points look interesting. Will be looking to see if they expand. 

    H4198

    Just say’n. 
    I'm betting at 2200+ fps (estimated), they will expand. But, we shall see next range trip. I'll chronograph, check accuracy and water jug test.

    I've been keeping my eyes open for some 4198 around here. Just haven't come across it yet. Walmart the other day had a few pounds of powder, but not that one.  I grabbed a pound of Varget and a pound of IMR3031, just to have them.  The hollow points are currently loaded with Varget.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    mitdr774 said:
    I use a flat seating stem with most of my cast bullets.  For my .458x1.8 I have to use pistol or shotgun powders and some wads to keep around 1100 fps.  I want to say I was using a 0.030" fiber, 0.125" lubes, and 0.060" fiber wad stack with my 576gr ACME and something like 15.5gr of Blue Dot.  The wad stack ate up just about all the air space between the base of the bullet and the powder.
    I've already tried searching for a flat seating stem for my seating die.  No luck.  Only other option would be to try a Lyman seating die.  But I haven't found any info on what kind of seating stem it has.  My assumption based on what I've noticed so far is, most 45-70 loading stuff out there is geared toward jacketed bullet loads for lever actions.  The Marlin is far more common that guns like this.  They even have specific seating stems for the FTX bullets..

    I'm really not interested in getting into wads and fillers if I don't have to.  If it becomes an issue, I'll just go toward 405 grain bullets or the like, which I'm positive I can easily get to 1000 fps.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    edited June 16 #102
    Ordered...
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022501562?pid=544263

    Not the best, but I reckon it'll be better than what I have at the moment.  Which is front and rear bags or a Lead Sled.  Should help with load testing on target next outing.

    Also ordered another 100 pieces of brass and 2 more ammo boxes..

    I'm taking back what I previously said about coated bullets, and I'm gonna try one more time.  Apparently, I learn slow.  Or maybe I'll have better experience.. Also ordered..

    https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=205&category=20&secondary=36

    I just want to try some 405 grain bullets. Just to say I have.

    This damn rifle got expensive...  :D

    ETA - list of bullets I have or will soon have for this gun.  I think I'll stop ordering bullets for now..
    50 count - 320 grain cast HP-GC from Montana Bulletworks
    250 - 350 grain Berry's plated RNFP
    200 - 405 grain coated RNFP from Missouri Bullet
    100 - 500 grain coated RNFP from ACME (bad coating)
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,426 Senior Member
    edited June 16 #103
    They seem to be alright in my little .458.  I have never had any issues with the 405 MBC whereas the 576 ACME likes to leave a ring of lead in my chamber after a few firings.

    Now that I think about it on the seating stem, I think im using a stem from my .44 mag dies.  It came with a flat and a concave stem.  I am using Lee dies though.  It fits the die body fine and stays centered for seating flat nosed bullets.

    Wads were only for reducing the empty space.  I was running into less than 60% case fill while trying to keep velocity around 1100 FPS.  I am not a fan of it though.  With the 405gr MBC coated and a full charge of trail boss I was running around 1025 FPS.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,588 Senior Member
    edited June 16 #104
    I’m probably gonna try the Matt’s Bullets 365gr RFN-GC for speed loads and the 405gr MBC non-coated bullets with TB powder for slow. 

    If/When I get mine. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,322 Senior Member
    Man I’m LOVING this thread!  I have to get a 45-70...  :freakingenablers:
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I’m probably gonna try the Matt’s Bullets 365gr RFN-GC for speed loads and the 405gr MBC non-coated bullets with TB powder for slow. 

    If/When I get mine. 
    I looked at Matt’s first when I started shopping for bullets. Just couldn’t find one I loved... REALLY wanted a gas checked HP for hunting. At this point I’m of the mind that I’ll stick with gas checked, coated or plated. Until I learn better. It’s been my experience with handgun loads that mild loads with cast bullets that are too hard can lead the bore as bad as running them too fast. But, I’m learning something... I’m almost going all in with the Montana bullets for hunting. Then Berry’s and/or some version of 405-500 grain gas checked or coated for plinking and lobbing.  This will be my last attempt at coated bullets. 

    Wait, if?  IF!!!!!!  IIIFFFF?!!! 😡 No talk like that around here... 😈 Repeat after me,  “WHEN!”.. I’m watching you... 🤔
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Man I’m LOVING this thread!  I have to get a 45-70...  :freakingenablers:
    Buy one before Zee... he’ll think it’s funny...You’ll laugh, I’ll laugh... it’ll be fun!

    https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/719003510/lym+1878+sharps+45-70+30+wood

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/498/1/LYMAN-1878-SHARPS

    In all honesty, if I knew anyone wanting to get into a NICE Sharps rifle, I’d recommend this one. You will be hard pressed to find a rifle this nice at that price point...

    I even sold one of my ARs to help fund it... 😬
  • fixitpetefixitpete Posts: 3 New Member
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,322 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    GunNut said:
    Man I’m LOVING this thread!  I have to get a 45-70...  :freakingenablers:
    Buy one before Zee... he’ll think it’s funny...You’ll laugh, I’ll laugh... it’ll be fun!

    https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/719003510/lym+1878+sharps+45-70+30+wood

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/498/1/LYMAN-1878-SHARPS

    In all honesty, if I knew anyone wanting to get into a NICE Sharps rifle, I’d recommend this one. You will be hard pressed to find a rifle this nice at that price point...

    I even sold one of my ARs to help fund it... 😬
    I got a few of my "why the hell did I buy this for" safe queens up for sale to fund something(s) hopefully soon.  We'll see what floats up from the list of "wants".  I'm tempered by the fact I already owned the Shilo version of that gun and it was an outstanding rifle but I sent it on (maybe a mistake as I see your's, but I tend not to dwell on those...).  Maybe a cavalry type light barreled carbine COULD be fun...  :D
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,778 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Jay said:
    GunNut said:
    Man I’m LOVING this thread!  I have to get a 45-70...  :freakingenablers:
    Buy one before Zee... he’ll think it’s funny...You’ll laugh, I’ll laugh... it’ll be fun!

    https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/719003510/lym+1878+sharps+45-70+30+wood

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/498/1/LYMAN-1878-SHARPS

    In all honesty, if I knew anyone wanting to get into a NICE Sharps rifle, I’d recommend this one. You will be hard pressed to find a rifle this nice at that price point...

    I even sold one of my ARs to help fund it... 😬
    I got a few of my "why the hell did I buy this for" safe queens up for sale to fund something(s) hopefully soon.  We'll see what floats up from the list of "wants".  I'm tempered by the fact I already owned the Shilo version of that gun and it was an outstanding rifle but I sent it on (maybe a mistake as I see your's, but I tend not to dwell on those...).  Maybe a cavalry type light barreled carbine COULD be fun...  :D
    That would be a .45-55...(Actually a downloaded .45-70) apparently the full house .45-70 loads were "uncomfortable" in the carbines....

    I made some up for a guy with a Trapdoor Cavalry Carbine with some period correct 500 grain bullets...very pleasant to shoot and quite accurate...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    edited June 23 #111
    Been a little busy with work, home, Father's Day, etc.  But here's an update.

    Over the past several days, I've received my 405 grain bullets from Missouri Bullet.  I plan to load a few of them up for test loads tonight.  Pics later. The coating on these looks MUCH better than my first try with coated bullets. No flaking or chipping at all.

    I also got the new Caldwell Rock BR rest and in. Took a quick pic of it on the front porch the other evening..  Overall, seems pretty nice, for the cost.  It's heavy and adjusts elevation and windage nice and smooth. It was on sale for $99 with the rear bag, and it was free shipping with the brass and couple of odds and ends I picked up.


    I almost didn't realize that my front sight insert card from Lee Shaver came in. It got mixed in with junk mail and I didn't find it until a few days after it came in. And WOW!!! It amazes me how fine they are able to cut those things... Looking forward to using that fine crosshair insert in the front sight.

    So I'll have several loads ready to test, with the plan to do so early one morning this weekend.
    320gr HP-GC with 2 different charges of Varget
    405gr RNFP with max load of Trail Boss and around 40 grains of IMR3031
    500gr RNFP on a mild charge of IMR3031

    Hope to have addressed some of the issues I identified last time out and get some good accuracy out of some loads this time. Better rest, check. Better PAST shield, check.  Better front sight insert, check. Front sight drifted for windage adjustment, check. Now I can start to narrow it down to the loads I'm going to go with and get a bunch loaded.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,322 Senior Member
    All they toys are home.  Nice looking rest!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,831 Senior Member
    Looked at one of these today. Lyman 140th anniversary edition in 30-30 Win
    pretty sure I need this!
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,322 Senior Member
    Damn!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Ive seen the 140th anniversary rifles in 30-30. Very nice... would be a hell of a fun shooter. These Lyman/Pedersoli rifles are just NICE for what they can be bought for..

    Early, at 12”x8”, I’d have to be within 25 yards of that target.. maybe 50...😆 I need a full scale one so I can put it out there a ways..
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,260 Senior Member
    Wonder if they could have made that URL any longer.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    More test loads ready. 


    I backed off a touch on the IMR3031. Looking like 40 grains could be a bit fast for those bullets out of a 30” barrel. So again, went with 1873 Springfield loads. Hope to keep them in the 1300-1400 range. Just a guess at this point...
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,322 Senior Member
    Damn those look like sledge hammers 🤣
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,588 Senior Member
    Rest looks good!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,811 Senior Member
    Range report number 2.. Making some good progress. Not quite there yet. 

    The new front sight insert and rest definitely helped a lot. I also had to switch to a different target. The 1” pasters at 50 yards are just too hard for me to see. Also, kinda having an issue with windage. I had to drift the front sight to the right to get it to move POI left. It still needs a touch more, but I’ve already got the front sight hanging off the right side quite a bit. Gonna look into this. Elevation is also a bit high at 50 yards. I’ve got the rear sight as low as it will go and it’s still 6-8” high. But some loads are much closer to POA and I didn’t try 100 yards this time. So I’m gonna play with it more before I order a taller front globe sight. I’ll take what I learned on the loads from this trip, load up some more ammo and try 100+ yards next time. 

    The new front rest worked flawlessly. MUCH better than using front and rear bags. 

    The 320gr Montana HP-GC bullets can be summed up with one word...EXPLOSIVE! More on that coming up. 

    But first, here’s what I got with the 405gr Missouri bullets. These will make some good plinkers and no doubt would work just fine on a deer, elk or hog. Recoil isn’t bad at all. Might try to get them up to about 1500fps and see if they still group well. 


    The same bullet also did pretty well subsonic. Gonna bump them up to 13 grains of TB and call it good for mild plinkers. 


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