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A bespoke double rifle from the days of Queen Victoria

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Replies

  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    OK thanks Scott


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,865 Senior Member
    It would be good to get as much specific information about original loads as possible. The barrels will be regulated specifically. Also recoil and expense may make extensive experimentation difficult. 
    Yes...this...they were usually regulated for a specific load and bullet weight.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    Will do in the reasearch.
    Any guesses as to what the 38 pertains to ?
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    It's close to the crown. 

    Im waiting to see  if Johhny can decifer 4751???

    English folks are thorough. Thats very good, but not necessarily expedient.....
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    I can decipher the 4571 it is its serial/ gun number.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    That figures.......

    I was thinking ancient code for load data :p
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,668 Senior Member
    edited July 3 #38
    It would be good to get as much specific information about original loads as possible. The barrels will be regulated specifically. Also recoil and expense may make extensive experimentation difficult. 
    Original loading is essential if you're going to hunt dangerous game and need the regulation on the barrels to save your life.  Me, I'd be satisfied with a non-punishing load that doesn't damage my shoulder.

    I'd do a chamber cast if there's any doubt about the caliber, and there seems to be.  Simple, cheap, and all your questions will be laid to rest...hopefully.  
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    I have no doubt it bigger than 45 measured 50.
    I'm in no hurry to shoot it so first thing is see if I get who and what the consignment called out on it.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,771 Senior Member
    I have no doubt it bigger than 45 measured 50.
    I'm in no hurry to shoot it so first thing is see if I get who and what the consignment called out on it.
    As in 500 nitro express?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,978 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    As in 500 nitro express?
    If so, he's ready for Jurassic Park
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,515 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    I have no doubt it bigger than 45 measured 50.
    I'm in no hurry to shoot it so first thing is see if I get who and what the consignment called out on it.
    As in 500 nitro express?
    Now that’s exciting!!! 😎
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,978 Senior Member
    MAN That's a SWEET looking rifle...

    Gotta agree with Early, you've moved from "vacuum" to a hitherto unheard of "black hole" level of suckage :worthy:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 575 Senior Member
    The 38 marked is the bore size. Before 1887 the 38 denotes a .500 bore size
    OK thanks Scott


  • Johnny rebJohnny reb Member Posts: 575 Senior Member
    The bore diameter would measure .497.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,668 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    I have no doubt it bigger than 45 measured 50.
    I'm in no hurry to shoot it so first thing is see if I get who and what the consignment called out on it.
    As in 500 nitro express?
    I don't see a smokeless proof mark which would rule out NITRO Express, but the Nitro proof may be there, just not shown in the photos.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    I don't know what that proof would look like....yet.

    I'm leaning to it just being a 50 Black powder express.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    The bore diameter would measure .497.
    Very neat.....thank you JR
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
     I think Gene makes a good point about chamber casting and loading for fun. BP would make that a straight forward process.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,771 Senior Member
    I for one am really looking forward to seeing what you learn about this piece of art, whatever it chambering is. This is in a closs of its own.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,515 Senior Member
    We’re gonna need elephants for “science” testing this one!!!  🤣
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    Ron I'll definitely let all know.
    Been cleaning oiling and this guy was a GREAT
    The wood to metal fitment is incredible.


  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,515 Senior Member
    Outright spectacular!!! 😍
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    We’re gonna need elephants for “science” testing this one!!!  🤣
    I'm not sure but think the 450 was more potent.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,515 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    We’re gonna need elephants for “science” testing this one!!!  🤣
    I'm not sure but think the 450 was more potent.
    No idea...  Hey maybe Zee can find a bigger trap? 😁
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Outright spectacular!!! 😍
    I did try and capture the bore while  it's  apart and find it's not easy.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    GunNut said:
    We’re gonna need elephants for “science” testing this one!!!  🤣
    I'm not sure but think the 450 was more potent.
    No idea...  Hey maybe Zee can find a bigger trap? 😁
    I never underestimate the power of Zee.

    With him....out of sight...out of mind.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    edited July 3 #58
    Ron this was from one of the English guys about dating it.

    S.N 4,000 was 1876 

    SN 4,500 was end of 1878

    S.N 5,000 was 1881

    So either the end of 78 or early 79 is where I think it winds up.

    It seems odd but he wasn't sure about the 38.


    Not sure about the 38 mark black powder rifles of the period were often sparsely marked, Quality is superb.


    Not from this Gentleman but was told the rifling is definitely Metford.

    Designed for jacketed bullets and BP  
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,771 Senior Member
    And I thought jacketed bullets were not used until 1900.  
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,668 Senior Member
    1886 8mm bullets were jacketed.  Smokeless powder and higher velocities necessitated this.  Jacketed bullets MAY have pre-dated this, but I don't believe so.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 543 Senior Member
    I looked it up and saw 1882 
    I'll only be shooting BP and lead most likely anyway. A lot to learn on it for sure.

    Hey Ron fall might not be far off after all.
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