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Why we are seeing a “spike” in COVID cases

bullsi1911bullsi1911 ModeratorPosts: 11,150 Senior Member
First:  We are now counting people that have the antibodies-
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/06/25/ten-times-more-people-have-covid-19-antibodies-than-are-diagnosed-cdc-reports/#2426d8907293

This means that people that got the Coronavirus and either never noticed or got better on their own are now being counted as “new cases”.  This is completely misleading and is only being done so that states will get more federal money.  The people being counted are well, have no symptoms, and are not spreading the disease.

Second, states (like my home state of TX) are now counting and reporting PROBABLE cases (sorry for the twitter links):
https://twitter.com/AshbyGk/status/1279136393050984448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1279136393050984448%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheferalirishman.blogspot.com%2F

https://twitter.com/AshbyGk/status/1279136393050984448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1279136393050984448%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheferalirishman.blogspot.com%2F

People who MAY have been exposed are now reported as cases.  This is blatant misrepresentation and the effects of this ‘spike’ are ruining businesses and lives.  
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    More widespread testing is causing 'the spike'. Period.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    tennmike said:
    More widespread testing is causing 'the spike'. Period.

    Then how do you account for the greater percentage of positive results if its just more tests?
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    More test
    Most new positives are people between 20 and 30.  Why?  They ignore CDC guidance, go out in mass protest, thousands elbow to elbow.  CNN shows them wearing masks, my personal experience says about 20% wore masks. In Miami where I saw them in person.
    Also stats are being manipulated.  Check the numbers, nobody seems to be sick/dying  from the flu, heart attacks, copd, or many of the normal things. They are being written up as Covid related for more funding.  The virus is real, it is hurting people, but local, state and federal governments are using it to control people
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    No doubt stats are fudged.  That said, they report that hopitalizations in al are up 660% the last month.  I know our hospital is full. Enough to open up a second floor for coivid only patients.  My daughter is getting exposed nightly by patients they did not yet know were positive.  And she works in orthopedics.  She has to be tested again Wednesday.  I think deaths are down cause they are treating it better plus younger people getting it
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    No doubt there's fudged stats and conspiracies, but let's not discount the overriding fact that people are stupid by nature and have the attention span and mental capacity little greater than gnats.

    I get that you need to get back to work.  Fine.  Mask up and go back to work.  But Rallies?  Beach trips?  Protests? Holiday celebrations?  REALLY?????
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 380 Member
    Bigslug said:
    No doubt there's fudged stats and conspiracies, but let's not discount the overriding fact that people are stupid by nature and have the attention span and mental capacity little greater than gnats.

    I get that you need to get back to work.  Fine.  Mask up and go back to work.  But Rallies?  Beach trips?  Protests? Holiday celebrations?  REALLY?????
    only 1 thing is certain of COVID-19  People can die of it.
    Dont catch it, trust me.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    BamaakII said:
    tennmike said:
    More widespread testing is causing 'the spike'. Period.

    Then how do you account for the greater percentage of positive results if its just more tests?
    Many people that are tested have had Covid and never showed any symptoms. They have the antibodies in them, though. The more tests done the more these people will show up. People going to protests and places with big crowds of people are spreading it. There has been NO TESTING WHATSOEVER in my county or surrounding counties. But people go to the Dr.'s office or the emergency room and are tested and some have Covid. One nursing home in a county bordering me had a HUGE outbreak in the patient and caregiver population. NO TESTING in that county had been done prior to some deaths in the nursing home. And NO TESTING of the general population has been done in that county yet. There have been 3 cases of Covid documented in my county, and they  were people that went to the emergency room thinking they had the flu. None died.

    The more STUPID the general population is with the mingling in large crowds the more cases that will crop up, especially with those asymptomatic 'Typhoid Marys' out there spreading it like manure spreaders spread cow patties.

    Bottom line is, you can't find it if you don't test for it. And that lets the stupid mouth breathers spread it. If you test for it then you'll find more of it. How is that hard to understand?
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    Mike you live in Podunk.  Yes numbers are up cause of more tests but the percentage of positive tests is up substationaly as are hopitalizations.  So more people are sick with it, not just antibody positive.  ICUs are full again.  Ventalators are in short supply in some places again.  How hard is that to understand.  Its not just that testing is up.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    edited July 8 #11
    Don't know how true this is, but I somewhat trust the source. Supposedly a group of local nurses opened a sterile bag of 100 sterile nasal swabs. Dipped each in alcohol, sent them in for testing and 7 came back positive.

    The more cases a state has, the more Fed money they get. And the Fed can print all they want. It's fiat currency.

    In all transparency, this was third hand information.

    Mike

    ETA: Covid is real. As is climate change....Both are, IMO, natural things that occur cyclically . Like bubonic plague and the ice-age. But, in this day and age of 24 hour instant media.....it's easy to blow things out of proportion.
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,150 Senior Member
    No one is saying COVID isn’t real. It’s just that the CDC and the states are now reporting “probable” cases and people who have antibodies as new real cases. 

    They are making it look worse so they can get more money. And reducing people’s trust of the system and pronouncements. 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 540 Senior Member
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Im thinking that with a complexed system of laws that protect patient privacy, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors etc.. Some years from now may even be difficult to get hard reliable data. These doctors interviewed for their professional perspective risk reputation to some degree if they're blatantly wrong. Maybe not as big of a deal as it once was but its still relevant to some degree.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,713 Senior Member
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
    Thing is, not wearing a mask is not working
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
    I totally respect and support your right to not wear a mask, but am unable to support you refusing to when in a place of business or another person requests you do in their presence.  Me and everyone else has a right to not be infected by you.  It has been proven that those identified as a "Super Carrier" are walking around feeling fine, not having any symptoms and spreading the virus to several people. Do whatever you want at home, around others that feel the same as you, but please obey local laws and respect others that do not with to contract this virus.  No it is not doom and gloom or the end of the world, but it is very real and can be deadly.  Thats my opinion anyway
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    edited July 8 #17
    NN said:
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
    Thing is, not wearing a mask is not working
    A couple good points with those two posts.

    On the one hand, this entire coronavirus event provides fuel for the "more government control" argument. It is evident that BOTH sides agree on basic safety protocols because BOTH Right and Left are pointing fingers at the other's non-mask-wearing, non-social-distancing behaviors.  An objective observer could conclude that people are idiots - in many cases, self-serving idiots - regardless of their political leanings and that they need a leash to keep them out of trouble.

    On the other hand, governments are composed of the same idiots - in many cases the same self-serving idiots.  If this coronavirus event and concurrent episodes of social unrest has shown us anything, it is that governments aren't any better "drivers" than the rest of us, and as such, trusting them with uncontested control over the "bus" that we're all riding leads to everybody going over a cliff. 

    To compound the issue, in a representative democracy/republic we have idiots selecting idiots - usually at the urgings of various wings of the media, which is composed of, you guessed it, more self-serving idiots.

    Add to this the fact that EVERYBODY is operating in real time with varying degrees of incomplete information.  This would lead to exasperation and mistrust under the best of circumstances.  That everyone seems to be adding their self-serving idiot political spin to every element of what SHOULD be a simple set of scientific facts is not helping.

    I wish I had answers to go with those depressing facts.  I think at the end of the day, this virus is going to kill who it's going to kill for however long it takes to burn out.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 540 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
    I totally respect and support your right to not wear a mask, but am unable to support you refusing to when in a place of business or another person requests you do in their presence.  Me and everyone else has a right to not be infected by you.  It has been proven that those identified as a "Super Carrier" are walking around feeling fine, not having any symptoms and spreading the virus to several people. Do whatever you want at home, around others that feel the same as you, but please obey local laws and respect others that do not with to contract this virus.  No it is not doom and gloom or the end of the world, but it is very real and can be deadly.  Thats my opinion anyway
    I completely understand your side of the coin, but heres the big kicker. If I honestly in my heart of hearts think that this whole thing is an overblown political circus, then why would I humor those that believe the doom and gloom? The people that are terrified of catching this virus that the cdc has made sound like its inevitable to catch anyway? Im not changing me for something that i have no belief in.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,660 Senior Member
    Random comment: Americans have become so used to the Nanny State that they're scared of life. Scared of everything, anything, and nothing. From insane "safety features" of new cars to bicycle helmet laws for children, its endemic.
    I told this to Alph while he was still here: All the hand wringing over this isn't accomplishing a goddamn thing other than increasing the hysteria. I have news for the fools who think they can control this: They cannot. Everybody on the planet is going to get this, or be vaccinated against it if/when a working vaccine is produced - which is becoming increasingly unlikely as its going to mutate if it hasn't already.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    Diver43 said:
    I dont believe anything the media tells me, and thats because they've cried wolf way too many times. Add the government giving mandates or suggestions and that gets a big ole "Hell No" from me. Ive been arguing with mask people all day. Their reasoning is that i should wear a mask for others safety. They don't know how to reply when I tell them that im not obligated to care about the health and safety of strangers. Does that make me an asshole? Sure. Do I care? Nope.
    I totally respect and support your right to not wear a mask, but am unable to support you refusing to when in a place of business or another person requests you do in their presence.  Me and everyone else has a right to not be infected by you.  It has been proven that those identified as a "Super Carrier" are walking around feeling fine, not having any symptoms and spreading the virus to several people. Do whatever you want at home, around others that feel the same as you, but please obey local laws and respect others that do not with to contract this virus.  No it is not doom and gloom or the end of the world, but it is very real and can be deadly.  Thats my opinion anyway
    I completely understand your side of the coin, but heres the big kicker. If I honestly in my heart of hearts think that this whole thing is an overblown political circus, then why would I humor those that believe the doom and gloom? The people that are terrified of catching this virus that the cdc has made sound like its inevitable to catch anyway? Im not changing me for something that i have no belief in.
    By your rational, if you believe you can drive home after 6 cocktails, it should be ok.  Or if you believe its safe to discharge rounds in a crowded public place cause you are a great shot. Well it's your right.  Public safety be dammed.  I'm not a sheep that follows govt wishes typically and have not worn a mask much when I didn't have to.  My county just made it required yesterday and i'll comply cause A I'm compromised and B I don't want to be fined.  But I'll be working from home til at least the fall and don't go to many places right now.
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 540 Senior Member
    Apples to oranges. Those things you named are against the law to do, and proven and known to be dangerous. Just because you believe what you're being told doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't mean that i have to join in on your fear. 
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,445 Senior Member
    If a business has it posted that a mask/face covering is required and you do not feel that you need one, then go some place else.  I can not stand having to wear a mask all day, but I made the choice to work and not sit on my rear at home.  Since the jobs are requiring a mask, I wear the mask.  I can choose to not wear a mask, and as a result I will be required to leave and not come back.  Potential lifetime ban from all of the customers facilities.  The place my wife works at was threatened with legal action by the state if they didnt enforce a mask policy.  No mask, no entry.  Its that simple.  If you dont like it, fight it in the courts or take your business some place else.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    My long deceased father had a saying that took me over half a lifetime to figure out.

    "My rights end where yours' begin."

    In my mind, at times it can go full circle, though,

    This might be one of those times.

    Mike


    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    Apples to oranges. Those things you named are against the law to do, and proven and known to be dangerous. Just because you believe what you're being told doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't mean that i have to join in on your fear. 
    Its currently a misdemeanor where I live so its apples to apples.  Your belief is irrelevant.  Obey the law or be fined 
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,660 Senior Member
    BamaakII said:
    Apples to oranges. Those things you named are against the law to do, and proven and known to be dangerous. Just because you believe what you're being told doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't mean that i have to join in on your fear. 
    Its currently a misdemeanor where I live so its apples to apples.  Your belief is irrelevant.  Obey the law or be fined 
    Never conflate law with ethics/what's right. Although I don't completely agree with "Some Dude's" stance, I don't completely disagree with it either. Our OverLords can pass LAWS at their whim and there is little/nothing we can realistically do about it. See California and New York for exhibit "A". Yea, our OverLords have a bigger stick than we do and won't hesitate to use it, that doesn't make them right - in fact, far from it.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 540 Senior Member
    BamaakII said:
    Apples to oranges. Those things you named are against the law to do, and proven and known to be dangerous. Just because you believe what you're being told doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't mean that i have to join in on your fear. 
    Its currently a misdemeanor where I live so its apples to apples.  Your belief is irrelevant.  Obey the law or be fined 
    I don't obey unconstitutional orders or mandates (its not law).
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    The virus spreads through people in close proximity. Masks are said to slow down the spread. Conclusive proof of that, if it exists is at best contentious. 

    Constitutional rights versus public health. This is front and center here.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.9news.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/bandimere-speedway-court-4th-july-celebration/73-a317155c-a105-4a4e-81b6-0789015d83ee

    Constitutional rights can and have been suspended/denied during declared emergencies in the past. A possible consequence of that is permanent loss.

    And then there's the question of the rights of those that become infected.

    A free society is the ideal. The best way to attempt achievement of that is going to be a hotbed of continuing debate for some time. 
  • DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 776 Senior Member
    BamaakII said:
    Apples to oranges. Those things you named are against the law to do, and proven and known to be dangerous. Just because you believe what you're being told doesn't make it true and it sure doesn't mean that i have to join in on your fear. 
    Its currently a misdemeanor where I live so its apples to apples.  Your belief is irrelevant.  Obey the law or be fined 
    I don't obey unconstitutional orders or mandates (its not law).
    ^ This

  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 274 Member
    What part of the constitution covers masks and pandemics?  The feds aren't making you wear masks, local and states are.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    If 6 foot distancing works, then why the mask? If the mask works then why the 6 foot distance rule? Logic took a hike on this one.
    Having compromised lung capacity, when I know that CO2 buildup from the mask has my pulse racing I take off the mask. If a male or female 'Karen' gets inside the 6 foot zone I have no problem telling them to back off. I do carry a heavy metal shaft cane with a heavy metal head because when the CO2 builds up my right leg gets weak. I won't have any problem cracking the 'Karen' in the head with it if they breach the  6 foot exclusion zone. MY right to breathe without having a heart attack trumps YOUR busybody crap about me removing my mask to do that breathing thing and lower my pulse out of the stratosphere. If I've removed my mask so I can breathe then it is in your best interest to stay the hell away from  me. You're wearing that cheesy useless 'chain link fence to avoid mosquitoes' mask so you're theoretically protected, anyway. The BEST masks will theoretically filter down to between 1 and 10 microns; viruses are unfortunately in the .1 to .01 micron range. Change out the water in your bong; the water has gone rancid.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 540 Senior Member
    BamaakII said:
    What part of the constitution covers masks and pandemics?  The feds aren't making you wear masks, local and states are.
    Still not a law. And the last I checked, even the state and local level have proper channels to go through to write rules, laws and regulations. I dont recall voting on this mask BS. If you're scared, fine just admit it but my rights don't end where your fears begin.
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