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Remember the McCloskeys who defended their home in St. Louis? Home raided guns seized

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  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    I don't have any words at the moment.  
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Litigation pending.
    Conclusions to follow.....
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,041 Senior Member
    edited July 14 #4
    Have no dog in this fight.....but.......

    From the videos I've seen, the action they took is gonna be pretty hard to defend. 
    I doubt I'd defend my home with threatened deadly force from the front porch, much less yell at my attackers. Nothing much to be gained legally or tactically by doing either.

    The Marine in me says....they'd just drop, singly or in groups once they started breaching the perimeter.

    Which, BTW,  isn't the driveway

    Just sayin'.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    Yeah, not waiting until there was an actual attack on their property before brandishing guns was a mistake you’d think lawyers (both of them are) should have never made.  BUT, being armed on your property is also not a crime.  Funny no charges have been brought up but yet the cops had a warrant.  Some funny perversions of the “law” in use nowadays by scummy Soros paid for politician hack prosecutors...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    The media has never stated the order of things happening.  But we do know the protesters crashed a locked gate to gain access to the community.  It has been stated that their lives were threatened, the life of their dog was threatened, protesters said they would take over their home and live in their house.  Nothing but crooked politics happening with this so called protest.  It is starting to look like Terry Cruz may be right
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,671 Senior Member
    Democrats will kiss any BLM ass they can. It's pretty obvious to me.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    The McCloskeys are a perfect example of folks with no plan besides, "I have guns.".  As lawyers they should have had all this figured out ahead of time.  But NOPE...  I actually feel bad for them but they represent the majority of the armed populace.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,950 Senior Member
    The way the McCloskeys were waving their guns, especially the woman, is somewhat problematic to me.  She scared the crap out of me, and I'm not afraid of anything.  I think it will hurt their case, to say the least.

    Perhaps if they had just shown that they were armed but had not pointed their guns at anyone it would be a lot easier to invoke the castle doctrine.  Perhaps...
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    I don't think they represent the majority of the armed populace. Or any other majority.

    Its possible that the same type of thinking that motivates someone to leave a defensible interior space in order to brandish weapons under the seeing eye of video. Shares similarities with what motivates people to seek some perceived level of superiority.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    I think they are/were untrained people that were afraid of losing things that were important to them.  If their statements were true, their dogs life was threatened, their lives were threatened, and the protesters stated they were going to live in their house.  They did not act perfectly, but if they were scared....
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 776 Senior Member
    edited July 14 #12
    GunNut said:
    The McCloskeys are a perfect example of folks with no plan besides, "I have guns.".  As lawyers they should have had all this figured out ahead of time.  But NOPE...  I actually feel bad for them but they represent the majority of the armed populace.
    Well, it certainly kept the thugs at bay, ...as intended. Also, given the endless examples of what these thugs have been doing for the last 2 months such as: Arson, Rioting, Murdering, Looting, Vandalizing, Rape, Assault, and a host of other criminal activity, these citizens were well within their right to do what they did. Everyone is an expert until it happens to them. I applaud the McCloskeys for having the balls and guts to stand up to these thugs. Sadly, most of America cowers when these BLM and Antifa animals show up. Even more horrifying is that these animals have been given free reign to carry out their mayhem by elected servants, but yet, those same elected servants are going to criminalize law abiding citizens for defending their property??? Are you kidding me??? 

    ETA: 

    This is the real message:

    "We, the elected servants (enter city) have turned our back on our law abiding constituents. We have defunded and disbanded the police. We applaud BLM and Antifa, and we will gladly let them take over your city and cause you harm - but if you, the law abiding citizen, exercise your Second Amendment rights and so much as use a firearm to defend yourself or your property - we WILL raid your home, seize your guns and send you to prison!" 
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,153 Senior Member
    One thing that is being missed in all of this is that the rioters DID “breach the perimeter”- they broke down a locked gate and entered a private gated community.

    This was not a public road.  This was wholly owned by the private Homeowners association that is made up of the owners/ residents.  This would be the same thing as be confronting someone in my back yard that kicked down the fence and started jumping on the trampoline.

    Were they poorly trained- yep.  Were they wrong- NOPE!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 776 Senior Member
    One thing that is being missed in all of this is that the rioters DID “breach the perimeter”- they broke down a locked gate and entered a private gated community.

    This was not a public road.  This was wholly owned by the private Homeowners association that is made up of the owners/ residents.  This would be the same thing as be confronting someone in my back yard that kicked down the fence and started jumping on the trampoline.

    Were they poorly trained- yep.  Were they wrong- NOPE!
    THIS ^^^
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    I don't think they represent the majority of the armed populace. Or any other majority.

    Its possible that the same type of thinking that motivates someone to leave a defensible interior space in order to brandish weapons under the seeing eye of video. Shares similarities with what motivates people to seek some perceived level of superiority.
    Oh yes they are!!!  Over the years I have been exposed to MANY folks on their quest to become armed and MANY seeking a CC License.  Lately by the scores.  I don't know how much time you spend interacting with these types of folks but the old adage "Buying a gun does not make you a shooter any more than buying a guitar makes you a musician>" has never been truer.  I spend my days in gun stores, shooting ranges and classes.  Nowadays pretty much 7 days a week.

    I stand in front of multiple CCW classes every week and I ALWAYS ask, who here has an actual armed defense plan?  Anyone, anyone, Buhler?  Ok, who here has a legal defense plan?  On both counts..... it's crickets...

    Everyone feels a sense of security the second they buy a gun and that's where it ends even though it's one f the most complex decisions you can make bearing some of the most dire consequences to your freedom and financial resources.  

    Hell NC will give ANYONE a paper to go buy a handgun if you are not a criminal!  No license or training required.  I give about 2-3 hours of instruction in the LEGAL use of Lethal Force in our state and most days I have a crowd of folks with mouths agape.  Most (if not ALL) have no clue what the laws of the state are, and these are the ones (the lower percentage group) that are at LEAST trying to be educated themselves even if only because it's a state requirement in the way of you getting a CCW.

    And there's no need to wax philosophically about some obscure theoretical thinking of human nature.  These guys are BOTH lawyers!!! and should have had a much better plan to execute than just walking out the front door waving guns.

    That being said, BRAVO for them for standing their ground!!!  I stand in solidarity with ANYONE that takes the right to defend themselves and their property seriously.  But I'll be the first to call out the fact that they should know better, and now they are paying for it.  And THEY are nowhere near alone in the naïveté and should be an example to everyone that has ever considered using a firearm to defend themselves.

    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    One thing that is being missed in all of this is that the rioters DID “breach the perimeter”- they broke down a locked gate and entered a private gated community.

    This was not a public road.  This was wholly owned by the private Homeowners association that is made up of the owners/ residents.  This would be the same thing as be confronting someone in my back yard that kicked down the fence and started jumping on the trampoline.

    Were they poorly trained- yep.  Were they wrong- NOPE!
    100% agreed!  But when a guy cuts in front of an 10 wheeler secure in the fact the he has a right of way and the 18 wheeler plows into his car and kills him, he was right... and dead.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,926 Senior Member
    Sidebar!
    How do you get the squiggly lines and dots in that French word?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Sidebar!
    How do you get the squiggly lines and dots in that French word?
    When you type a letter hold it down and a little menu appears with punctuation options.  Like mañana!!!  Of. Purse that is Apple OS and IOS.  No clue how to do it in Windows etc.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,967 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Sidebar!
    How do you get the squiggly lines and dots in that French word?
    On a phone, you just need to find where the special characters are stored. Also a long press on a letter will sometimes work as a hotkey. (For example, long press + N --> Ñ)
    Another way is just type in the html code directly when using a laptop or desktop. Make sure you're in wysiwyg mode.

    Lastly, you can look up your word on the internet and when you see it spelled the way you want it, just copy and paste it.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,041 Senior Member
    Well....that was a total waste of mind-space. I've never liked the French.

    And, yes.....I've been there. ;)

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    The gate to the road was wrecked. The protestors were no longer peaceful when they started breaking the law. They have a right to protest, they do not have the right to break the law. Their rights STOP where others begin.
    image

    Unfortunately if you live in a city where the DA is a Soros bought and paid for hack the law means little.  Again I’m with them in spirit but they failed to truly prepare for this event by doing their homework so they would have a better plan than walking out barefooted waving a gun for the cameras.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Do the majority of the armed populace buy guns for SD as the primary purpose?

    How mutch training does a person need to hide inside their house?

    I think they'll come out of litigation fine. They never fired a shot. That should speak volumes.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,041 Senior Member
    edited July 15 #25
    GunNut said:
    The gate to the road was wrecked. The protestors were no longer peaceful when they started breaking the law. They have a right to protest, they do not have the right to break the law. Their rights STOP where others begin.
    image

    Unfortunately if you live in a city where the DA is a Soros bought and paid for hack the law means little.  Again I’m with them in spirit but they failed to truly prepare for this event by doing their homework so they would have a better plan than walking out barefooted waving a gun for the cameras.
    That's pretty much what I was trying to say.  I've always rooted for the good guys wearing white hats (or blue, for that matter) and I'm with them in spirit. But you are, in the aftermath, going to be judged by mostly gray hats.

    Yell threats all you want. Throw bottles at my house. Kill my dog. Enter a window. Kick in my door. It'll take a bit before I open fire, and you'll likely never even know I have the means and skill to drop you dead as a brick. But your bloodstains will be inside the real perimeter.....not in the driveway of a gated community. That will make my life much easier in the future.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,803 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    The gate to the road was wrecked. The protestors were no longer peaceful when they started breaking the law. They have a right to protest, they do not have the right to break the law. Their rights STOP where others begin.
    image

    Unfortunately if you live in a city where the DA is a Soros bought and paid for hack the law means little.  Again I’m with them in spirit but they failed to truly prepare for this event by doing their homework so they would have a better plan than walking out barefooted waving a gun for the cameras.
    That's pretty much what I was trying to say.  I've always rooted for the good guys wearing white hats (or blue, for that matter) and I'm with them in spirit. But you are, in the aftermath, going to be judged by mostly gray hats.

    Yell threats all you want. Throw bottles at my house. Kill my dog. Enter a window. Kick in my door. It'll take a bit before I open fire, and you'll likely never even know I have the means and skill to drop you dead as a brick. But your bloodstains will be inside the real perimeter.....not in the driveway of a gated community. That will make my life much easier in the future.

    Mike
    No THAT is a much better plan...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,921 Senior Member
    Kill my dog and threaten me?  You are not making it to the door.
    Keep in mind, the people were not standing out side with guns waiting for the mob.  They got guns after they were threatened.    The media or the so called protesters will never tell the public that.  media goes so far as to call them peaceful protesters.  Sorry, breaking down a gate is not peaceful.  Luckily America is finally starting to see through the BS media
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,667 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
     Luckily America is finally starting to see through the BS media
    I *REALLY* hope you're right - I have my doubts. The control the Media has over public opinion would have been a Goebbels wet dream! My late Mother always told me that "Public opinion is Ahramanic" (i.e. "of the Devil") - she was right.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,671 Senior Member
    Most of the conservatives are aware of what is going on, and maybe some centrists, but I REALLY doubt that any of the average demonicrats know anything other than what the media feeds them. The ones that do know what is going on are the ones that are in charge.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,148 Senior Member
    The gate to the road was wrecked. The protestors were no longer peaceful when they started breaking the law. They have a right to protest, they do not have the right to break the law. Their rights STOP where others begin.
    image

    Agree.  The sentiment in that letter is total horse****.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,398 Senior Member
    Knowing my state's laws on trespass, it would be bad for anyone to try that here. As to the local Sheriff's office, deputies WOULD respond if called. And if they were reluctant to come, I know the 'magic words and phrases' that will have them burning the tires off the patrol cars getting here. I've had to deal with unarmed and armed trespassers before and know what is allowed; talking with a criminal lawyer for about 30 minutes cleared up any grey areas. GunNut mentioned that before on 'stand your ground' issues regarding a conference with a lawyer and it's good advice.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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