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Interesting results based on actual new shooter training experience...

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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    So what was the "damned little revolver they both hated."? Other than a DA .38 Snubbie?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    So what was the "damned little revolver they both hated."? Other than a DA .38 Snubbie?
    100% stock S&W Model 60.  That’s a Stainless 2” 5 shot J frame.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    It would appear, based on your polling, that the revolver needs some trigger tuning.
    As stated above “100% stock S&W Model 60.  That’s a Stainless 2” 5 shot J frame.”  I’m fine with the gun the way it is.  My contention is that it’s the most often recommended gun for newbies and so far just about every newbie that has tried it has hated it and most shoot it rather poorly so I’m doubting it’s the “ideal” or default gun to recommend as the default first gun for the uninitiated.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 2,119 Senior Member
    I still carry my 3" L frame when the mood strikes me, but I have found myself gravitating back to my Shield more and more.  I shoot it better in a hurry, it's lightweight and easy to conceal and if I can't deal with the problem with 9+1 in the gun and two spare magazines......I probably went somewhere I shouldn't have.....
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    So what was the "damned little revolver they both hated."? Other than a DA .38 Snubbie?
    100% stock S&W Model 60.  That’s a Stainless 2” 5 shot J frame.
    My wife's Charter is a clone - I wonder if she'd like it, or hate it?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    So what was the "damned little revolver they both hated."? Other than a DA .38 Snubbie?
    100% stock S&W Model 60.  That’s a Stainless 2” 5 shot J frame.
    My wife's Charter is a clone - I wonder if she'd like it, or hate it?
    I’ve had a few CAs in my lifetime.  Basically identical in looks and operation.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,329 Senior Member
    edited July 20 #38
    As a dyed in the wool devils advocate I have to ask a real question.
    If a newbie walked up to a gun counter and made it clear that they wanted to buy a handgun and would put it next to the bed but made it clear that was the end of it.  No training or instruction. What do you suggest?
    Quick training on a Glock?
    Refuse to sell?
    Push training? (Of course)
    Ultimately?
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,899 Senior Member
    You are a store, you sell guns to make money. They want to buy a gun.  You attempt to steer them to a safe easy to operate gun and strongly suggest they receive training.  Bottom line is they are a consumer and you are selling what they desire.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    As a dyed in the wool devils advocate I have to ask a real question.
    If a newbie walked up to a gun counter and made it clear that they wanted to buy a handgun and would put it next to the bed but made it clear that was the end of it.  No training or instruction. What do you suggest?
    Quick training on a Glock?
    Refuse to sell?
    Push training? (Of course)
    Ultimately?
    If it’s a legal purchaser buying a legal firearm I will show them a bunch of different guns, describe pros and cons of each and then sell them anything they want.  Training is always a recommendation.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • KSUFirefighter2KSUFirefighter2 Posts: 28 New Member
    GunNut said:
    I finally joined the dark side......
    HA!  Zee works his damn magic again... he is secretly smiling in the corner...
    Still haven't got the cookies......
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,689 Senior Member
    Some time ago a bunch of us shooters were asked to be ROs in a match between different local specialized cop units (SWAT, S.Os, and so) 'cause they could only trust us civilians as fair judges. 
    Not an easy job since we also had to design the different stages according to their training standards and had their commanding officers as spectators. Still wanting to shake them out of their comfort zone, we forced them to end one particularly long stage with a seating 5-target scenario but using a snubby instead of their service pistols. Shots had to be in quick DAO at ranges from 3 to 15 yards, single hand.

    Boy, talk about discomfort and reject! at first they strongly refused but once convinced, it truly forced them to perform. We even tried to make them do a reload but it was too much for them, and in the end even the best trained shooters confessed having a hard time mastering a small .38 revolver and the need to practice a lot with one of them, specially if trying to overcome the "pistol mindset".
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    I hear folks WHILE in the process of recommending a snub nose revolver to a new shooter specifically say the are NOT accurate beyond bad breath distances in the next breath.

    So that reminds me of watching Bob Munden shoot a balloon at IIRC 250 yards with one, offhand, and my own personal experiences accuracy wise with that type of gun and my immediate thought is, well maybe it’s just a tough gun to shoot?!?!?
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,957 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    I finally joined the dark side......
    HA!  Zee works his damn magic again... he is secretly smiling in the corner...
    Still haven't got the cookies......
    Oatmeal, chocolate chip, macadamia, or peanut butter?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    As a dyed in the wool devils advocate I have to ask a real question.
    If a newbie walked up to a gun counter and made it clear that they wanted to buy a handgun and would put it next to the bed but made it clear that was the end of it.  No training or instruction. What do you suggest?
    Quick training on a Glock?
    Refuse to sell?
    Push training? (Of course)
    Ultimately?
    I would sell him the gun.
    :D
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • KSUFirefighter2KSUFirefighter2 Posts: 28 New Member
    Zee said:
    GunNut said:
    I finally joined the dark side......
    HA!  Zee works his damn magic again... he is secretly smiling in the corner...
    Still haven't got the cookies......
    Oatmeal, chocolate chip, macadamia, or peanut butter?
    Peanut Butter, and lots of ammo for practice!
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    Wait, you like Glocks AND Peanut Butter cookies?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Man, you are weird bird...  :D
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,957 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Wait, you like Glocks AND Peanut Butter cookies?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Man, you are weird bird...  :D
    Seems normal enough to me. Had he said chocolate chip.......we’d have had a problem. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    He seems normal to YOU...  HA!

    I rest my case!  B)
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,957 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    He seems normal to YOU...  HA!

    I rest my case!  B)
    Birds of a feather. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    You guys are nuts - *I* am the only "normal" one here!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,957 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    You guys are nuts - *I* am the only "normal" one here!

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    Someone say peanut butter?

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,914 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Wait, you like Glocks AND Peanut Butter cookies?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Man, you are weird bird...  :D
    Do the oatmeal cookies have raisins?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    GunNut said:
    Wait, you like Glocks AND Peanut Butter cookies?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Man, you are weird bird...  :D
    Do the oatmeal cookies have raisins?
    Without raisins they are NOT oatmeal cookies, they’re just hard baked oatmeal...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,957 Senior Member
    edited July 26 #56
    Ok, elephant in the room. 

    Does anyone here shoot a revolver like an extension of themselves. Akin to Jerry Michulek?  Can you drive a revolver like a NASCAR?

    I suspect a couple here can. Maybe a few. But, the vast majority here most likely drive a pistol better than a revolver. 
    I stand to be corrected. If you can drive a revolver better than a semi-auto pistol (and I don’t mean slow fire.....drive the gun as if your life depended on it).......please say so. 

    I’m honestly curious. 

    Disclaimer:  I’m likely to call BS unless you can prove it or have the rep to hold otherwise. 
    Revolvers ain’t t as easy. You wanna call yourself Jerry or Munden.........be prepared to prove it.

    Yes.......I’m an ass.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,621 Senior Member
    What are you looking for? I assume I will see and avoid most problems, that is my goal, my J-frame is if I get jumped and someone is in contact distance, hands on me, I am never far from more guns and ammo so if the situation goes beyond my original load and 3 speed loaders, I was too far or too injured from my longer firearms to add a magazine fed firearm. My knife is always on me too. I carry a pistol in church because that is a different situation.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,621 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    What are you looking for? I assume I will see and avoid most problems, that is my goal, my J-frame is if I get jumped and someone is in contact distance, hands on me, I am never far from more guns and ammo so if the situation goes beyond my original load and 3 speed loaders, I was too far or too injured from my longer firearms to add a magazine fed firearm. My knife is always on me too. I carry a pistol in church because that is a different situation.
    I am asking if there is a drill or a technique you think one should be able to accomplish with a small revolver, I gave my reasons for carrying mine above, I figure that is my daily scenario.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,759 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Ok, elephant in the room. 

    Does anyone here shoot a revolver like an extension of themselves. Akin to Jerry Michulek?  Can you drive a revolver like a NASCAR?

    I suspect a couple here can. Maybe a few. But, the vast majority here most likely drive a pistol better than a revolver. 
    I stand to be corrected. If you can drive a revolver better than a semi-auto pistol (and I don’t mean slow fire.....drive the gun as if your life depended on it).......please say so. 

    I’m honestly curious. 

    Disclaimer:  I’m likely to call BS unless you can prove it or have the rep to hold otherwise. 
    Revolvers ain’t t as easy. You wanna call yourself Jerry or Munden.........be prepared to prove it.

    Yes.......I’m an ass.
    Oh hell, I consider myself barely capable with a pistol.  I’m ok with the little snubby but Jerry’s level?  Not even close...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,637 Senior Member
    I'm just as good with a revolver as I am with a pistol. Now, define "good"... :D;):'(
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,068 Senior Member
    edited July 27 #61
    Zee said:
    Ok, elephant in the room. 

    Does anyone here shoot a revolver like an extension of themselves. Akin to Jerry Michulek?  Can you drive a revolver like a NASCAR?

    I suspect a couple here can. Maybe a few. But, the vast majority here most likely drive a pistol better than a revolver. 
    I stand to be corrected. If you can drive a revolver better than a semi-auto pistol (and I don’t mean slow fire.....drive the gun as if your life depended on it).......please say so. 

    I’m honestly curious. 

    Disclaimer:  I’m likely to call BS unless you can prove it or have the rep to hold otherwise. 
    Revolvers ain’t t as easy. You wanna call yourself Jerry or Munden.........be prepared to prove it.

    Yes.......I’m an ass.
    All the trophies I have in the case in the front bedroom say I used to be pretty good (Not great, but pretty good)with my old 6" 586. Now, not so much
    But then, I was also going through ~1k rounds a month at that time.

    And if you DO want to be an ass about it, I'll see if I can get enough of the grandkids' toys out from infront of it and take a pic of them for you
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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