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Made in China

DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 788 Senior Member
edited August 2020 in Second Amendment/Politics #1
   When I see the label, "Made in China," I automatically see junk and a company that has sold out their own countrymen for communism. For that reason I WILL NOT shop Walmart, Target, or the other big conglomerates. I haven't stepped one foot into a Walmart since 1998. Granted, it can be near impossible to find certain items that are made here in America and sometimes ya have to bite the bullet. However, in most cases I will always search and gladly pay more for American made products, or, products that are made in Japan, Germany, or other European nations where quality and craftmanship is usually the norm. Sadly, many tools, especially power tools, are no longer made here in the states, and in those cases, I usually haunt pawnshops, private owners, or ebay for old school items. It just pisses me off to no end when I hear of some company selling its soul to the CCP to save a buck. As a kid, I remember seeing so many manufacturing jobs here; now it's mostly distribution warehouses stockpiled with products and materials made out of what I call, "Chinesium.' Another insult, at least to me, is the red, white, and blue label stating "Made in the USA " and then in very fine print on the bottom: "...with global materials." - more Chinesium. LOL. On the other hand, there's a part of me that can see the reasoning of why some companies have chosen to sell out jobs overseas: having to deal with the far too frequent absurdity of Unions, environmental laws, taxes, etc. IMPO, Unions have been the single biggest destroyer of American business with their ridiculous demands and practices not to mention that their modus operandi is solely based on seniority rather than merit and incentive. Nothing worse than having some lazy ass union guy saying, "Slow down! You're making me look bad!" ...just my $0.02


   

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,893 Senior Member
    What unions???


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,453 Senior Member
    What unions???


    IBEW, AFL-CIO, UAW, pipefitter union, plumber's union, TEACHER'S UNIONS, meat packers unions, farm worker unions, and a lot more are alive and well. Even most police forces are unionized. If your comment isn't tongue in cheek then I'm mystified.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    For what it's worth, I grew up in a Union family.  My Grandfather was a plumber and Father a Master Carpenter.  
    Back then unions kept companies from working people to death and safe from hazardous conditions. But the unions became bigger and more powerful. To the point their demands put small companies out of business and a decade or two later they crippled huge corporations like GM and Eastern Airlines.  Today it seems they are rearing their heads with demands that again will make their jobs be sent overseas.  Right when jobs are returning here again
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,758 Senior Member
    I don't hate labor unions, but I do resent that they give hundreds of millions of $$$ to greedy left-wing politicians that sell workers out, along with the greedy corporations that sell workers out.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,893 Senior Member
    Well the rumors of the death of unions may have been greatly exaggerated. I think the their present infuence may also be greatly exaggerated.........

    Unless of course. All of the foreign manufacturing has been organized? Made in China by union labor?


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    For what it's worth, I grew up in a Union family.  My Grandfather was a plumber and Father a Master Carpenter.  
    Back then unions kept companies from working people to death and safe from hazardous conditions. But the unions became bigger and more powerful. To the point their demands put small companies out of business and a decade or two later they crippled huge corporations like GM and Eastern Airlines.  Today it seems they are rearing their heads with demands that again will make their jobs be sent overseas.  Right when jobs are returning here again
    Same here. Its all in the balance, and we lost THAT long ago.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • DrawbarFlatsDrawbarFlats Posts: 788 Senior Member
    edited August 2020 #8
    I don't hate labor unions, but I do resent that they give hundreds of millions of $$$ to greedy left-wing politicians that sell workers out, along with the greedy corporations that sell workers out.
    Unions are definitely a double edged sword. As Diver pointed out, they were originally formed to stop sweat shops and offering better protection from hazardous conditions which I completely agree with; to a point anyway. About 30 years ago I worked a job that required me to become a Teamster and their "You Must Be a Democrat and Vote Left to Work Here" didn't sit well with me. The company had their share of wannabe union thugs who would walk the floor and ask about ones political affiliation." My answer was always, "Last I checked this is still America and I'll vote for any damn person I want to vote for." It was pretty comical when I'd show up to work the next day and the forklift would 'mysteriously' be out of propane or my shrink wrap roll had a few nice razor slashes down the side to make it impossible to wrap pallets destined for market. I always took it with a grain of salt and openly laughed about it which pissed off some of my fellow workers to no end. When I took a job in management (at the same company) the b.s. stopped and everyone was suddenly very pleasant. LOL. I could have been a vindictive bastard in retaliation but that wasn't my nature. My philosophy is and always has been - to do my best for the company that puts the food on my table and it sure in the hell wasn't the union signing my checks.    
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,333 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    For what it's worth, I grew up in a Union family.  My Grandfather was a plumber and Father a Master Carpenter.  
    Back then unions kept companies from working people to death and safe from hazardous conditions. But the unions became bigger and more powerful. To the point their demands put small companies out of business and a decade or two later they crippled huge corporations like GM and Eastern Airlines.  Today it seems they are rearing their heads with demands that again will make their jobs be sent overseas.  Right when jobs are returning here again
    You forgot controlled or heavily influenced by the mob.  My FIL told me in NYC it’s common practice to add a few open positions for trades that never show up to work.  Most of them guys that were “family” of the local mobster who were losers and needed a source of income.  My FIL told me, Nad I later verified with one of his coworkers, that he once told Sammy “The Bull” Gravano to go F himself when he showed up at his job site and demanded he “hire” 4 more guys.  
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    Guys like Sammy, Joe Gash, Sam Nalo did their best to not hurt innocents while they worked their games.  Nick Sacco and Sammy were rats that didnt care if your kids went hungry and had no problem turning states evidence to stay out of jail.
    The Unions always had corruption but started out fir the good of the workers.
    Remember back then, the Democrats were the good guys, when our Grandparents were young they flipped
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,496 Senior Member
    My observation has been that shipping production has been more about corporate/shareholder greed than labor greed.  I used to buy Klein tools for work, but they started shipping production to China.  The retail price did not reflect this reduced cost of production.  I now buy Channel Lock brand pliers and have been very happy with them.  I buy what I can thats made here and more often than not the cost difference isnt that much.  I know the unions are an easy target, but they are far less of a problem than quite a few like to claim.  Most of the complaints I hear about unions sure do not apply to the local trade unions around me.  They really only apply to one union I can think of, but we all get judged by that one union.

    Here is another good example of it being profits over labor.  The Buick Envision is 100% made in China and then shipped here.  It sells for made in North America price though.  Keep in mind it is on the same platform as the Eqinox and Terrain, both of which are produced in North America.
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 365 Member
    The saying in the shop I work at is "the whole world is made in China"

    On a side note, the bravest human beings on the planet would have to be Chinese Astronauts.  Can you imagine willingly strapping on to a rocket that was assembled by workers who don't see a difference between 0.0001mm and 0.1mm?
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,394 Senior Member
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 607 Senior Member
    edited August 2020 #14
    My old man was a union worker, tool and die maker. He said he worked with a guy for 13 years and never knew him because the guy was asleep on his workbench everyday. Pop wasn't much of liar either.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,386 Senior Member
    My Left-of-Lenin union actually serves me VERY well.  Every election year they send me a voter's guide, and I use it to oppose everything they support.

    It's actually kinda funny.  Last time around, I read up on every candidate and initiative I had the time and stomach for, and made my choices on the sample ballot.  Only then did I take out my union's voter guide and compare.  I was totally opposite them on almost everything, and when I looked deeper into the very few issues  I THOUGHT I agreed with them on, I ended up flipping those.

    Opposing their voter's guide seems to take less effort and may actually be more reliable toward supporting my interests than doing the research. :D


    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,386 Senior Member
    As to the "Made in China" problem. . .

    It seems to go deeper than paying two bucks more for a USA hammer than a Harbor Freight special.  I bought a cordless Ryobi drill last night (you guessed it - China) after agonizing over stuff that cost double or more and probably isn't going to serve my needs any better.

    In the final equation, I care a lot more about MY finances than either an entitled U.S. worker whining about his $15 an hour minimum wage, or the well being of an oppressed Chinese slave laborer.  That's not an uncommon sentiment.

    The fact is that the U.S. worker or company is no more of a team player in this equation than I am if they aren't trying to even slightly compete on price.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,893 Senior Member
    The laws that incentivize business practices, the costs of foreign trade, the availability of commodities, etc., and so on are bought and paid for by those that not only benefit the most, but can most afford the purchase.

    Then an elaborate BS narrative gets programmed into the airwaves to form a mantra. Eagerly swilled up by about half the country and then regurgitated dutifly and loyaly be the mislead masses.

    Lip service gets pawned out in the form of tariff reform to passify the reprogrammed zombie hoards.

    And the beat goes on. All we need is a jingle and a sloagan......
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,968 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    My Left-of-Lenin union actually serves me VERY well.  Every election year they send me a voter's guide, and I use it to oppose everything they support.

    It's actually kinda funny.  Last time around, I read up on every candidate and initiative I had the time and stomach for, and made my choices on the sample ballot.  Only then did I take out my union's voter guide and compare.  I was totally opposite them on almost everything, and when I looked deeper into the very few issues  I THOUGHT I agreed with them on, I ended up flipping those.

    Opposing their voter's guide seems to take less effort and may actually be more reliable toward supporting my interests than doing the research. :D


    Back when I lived in California, if I was having difficulty deciding on how to vote, I'd look to see who supported it or opposed it. If that didn't work, I'd look to see what the position of the CTA (California Teacher's Association) was. They *ALWAYS* had a position on *EVERYTHING* whether it had anything whatsoever to do with schools/teaching or not. Then I'd vote opposite of them.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,496 Senior Member
    The latest "suggestion" card I received actually had some independents and a republican on it.  Based on conversations at work the overwhelming majority of my coworkers fit squarely in the middle on politics.  Most do what they can to buy things made here, and most understand the economics of the cost of labor.  If only the shop would understand that.  When you have 1/4 the crew trying to look busy because you cant get the tools they need, its hard to fault the "lazy ass union guy".   The shop doesnt want to spend the money because it will cut into owner bonuses at the end of the year, so instead they waste far more money on lost productivity.  They could make more money by buying the tools we need to work.  The field see it, but the people in charge of the money dont.  Those in charge are not active members of the union (once in those positions they have to freeze their membership) and are purely looking at bonus money in what I would call a greedy manner.  This is a case of corporate greed as far as I am concerned.

    Constantly portraying all unions in the way that so many do is getting very tiring.  If I dont perform, I dont keep my job.  If I dont show up for work for any reason, I dont get paid.  If I screw up, I loose my job.  Sure, when times are good and we have travelers it is harder to get rid of lazy local guys that game the system.  Once things slow down and we are back to only book 1 guys, those unproductive guys get sent down the road.  I would say that is the very small minority of the local though.  I dont have sick pay, I dont have vacation pay, I dont get paid for holidays unless I work them, I do have healthcare (not the best but its better than nothing), I do have an annuity, I do have a pension, and I do have a decent income. Today is a good example, I have to go to the dentist so I left early.  I put my time down for the hours I was there (I am the foreman of my crew and do time for my crew).  I wont get paid for more than that unless my boss decides to cover me.  I dont expect it though.  Also as a foreman I am not entitled to the same representation by the union, as a journeyman or apprentice would be, if there is a work related issue.  I am considered a representative of the company and as such and issues I have to sort out myself.

    I have been with this shop for over 10 years.  I have no relation to the owners, I have no stake in the company, and I have plenty of "enemies" within the company.  I remain employed based on my work performance.  In the end I am just a number, and that number will be up some day.  I could easily be replaced by a new hire at any time.  My 10 years means nothing at this shop (would be the same at any shop here) as it has zero loyalty to its employees while expecting 100% loyalty from those same employees.

    I used to formulate all my opinions on unions based on experiences with people from one specific union.  The majority of those opinions turned out to be wrong once I became a member of a trade union.  
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,893 Senior Member
    Don't confuse the narrative. We might find some background music for it.

    And besides. I saw a lazy guy once. Heck, could be the same guy everyone else saw.
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