wetsuit

Varmintmist

Ok,

Here is the deal.

I want to start doing more with my kayak. Since I cut some weight I can get in and out pretty easy and I fit better. I put the thigh braces back in, found a old factory replacement rudder and got rid of the frankenrudder I made which worked, but the drag was pretty noticeable. I took the high back band out and replaced it with a normal backband for the style of boat I have.

Need 1. I am going to learn to roll this beast, and get real wet trying.

After about 2 years of life, I am going to get back to river tripping. Already talked to a cohort and he wants to do the Pine Creek through the PA Grand Canyon. The creek is at good float stage in Mar, Apr, and May. Due to the gray wisdom streaks in my hair, I will not be floating anything in norther PA in March. There is a 90% chance of ice on the water and snow. I have exactly no desire to kayak camp in a canyon where the temp will be 5F+ colder. April, well, I have seen 8" of snow on Easter so odds are slim that you will see me in a kayak then either. May OTOH, I have canoed at the end of may, so mid May to the end of may are fair game. But the water will be cold. A outfitter on the creek rents, sells, and recommends a min of a 2mm wetsuit.

Need 2. Prep for OOBE (out of boat experience) Fair chance this will happen as I will be floating a expedition kayak through class 2 rapids. I have done rapids before with a varied outcome, although the ones I went over in were more than class 2.

My thoughts are to get a 3mm Farmer John like the outfitter rents. Wear that under the splash jacket and PFD with the legs under the skirt. Full suits are not recommended for paddling because of chafe in the pits. The FJ will allow me to upgrade with a better splash jacket, wet suit jacket, vest, hood or hooded vest IF I decide I am going to start eairlier and quit later in the year.

Size may also be an issue. 6' and I will be stretching a 3x in the chest (49) and wear a 38 waist with a small carport overhang. That puts a 2x midsection.

Any other thoughts

10canyon53

$10 fine if you post any pics of you in a wet suit.....

GunNut

A few thoughts.  

3 mm is pretty heavy for something that will spend most of the time out of the water.  Also the heavier you go the more restrictive and constrictive the wetsuit gets.  A 1.5 will have more give and will be more forgiving of your shape and size making it more comfortable.  You can always add insulation under a jacket for colder days and polar fleece if it gets wet can be wrung out and put back on to near 100% insulation value.  I'd also go with the smaller sized specially with a FJ.  The biggest issue with going smaller is usually armpits and arms not really chest and belly so not a problem with a FJ.  Even when I was 260 I only wore an XL 1 or .9 mm full suit most of the time.  Damn wetsuits are HOT and kayaking is bound to generate a lot of body heat!

GunNut

10canyon53 said:

$1000 fine if you post any pics of you in a wet suit.....

Fixed your typo...

CHIRO1989

Does not take long to lose a lot of heat in cold water, plan for the worst. Maybe rent a 3 MM suit and try it out on a lake first.

Varmintmist

GunNut said:

10canyon53 said:

$1000 fine if you post any pics of you in a wet suit.....

Fixed your typo...

Really? We have a Zorba on here and I get grief about a wetsuit??? How about if I put it to "Too sexy" and post a vid?

Varmintmist

CHIRO1989 said:

Does not take long to lose a lot of heat in cold water, plan for the worst. Maybe rent a 3 MM suit and try it out on a lake first.

outfitters recommendation was 2mm or better for the trip. I could rent, but the idea of buying and being able to work on a roll this fall appealed to me. NRS has one with a FULL front zipper for under a buck 20. For most of the stuff I do in decent weather, a PFD over a cotton tee and quick dry pants are plenty. So not really planning (at this point) to use it mid summer. This would be for this trip, and give me the ability to extend into the first week in Oct safely.

10canyon53

Varmintmist said:

GunNut said:

10canyon53 said:

$1000 fine if you post any pics of you in a wet suit.....

Fixed your typo...

Really? We have a Zorba on here and I get grief about a wetsuit??? How about if I put it to "Too sexy" and post a vid?

For the record, I don't want to see Zorba in a wet suit either. 

Jayhawker

My wife and I have spent a lot of time kayaking in some pretty extreme conditions...including Lake Michigan and Lake Superior...On a normal day I would wear a wetsuit...but as soon as it got chilly, I said screw a bunch of wetsuits and bought a dry jacket and pants...they are sealed at the neck, wrists, waist and legs with rubber seals...I'd wear light fleece pants and shirt under it...neoprene booties and gloves complete the outfit. 
Dry gear is a much better option than wet gear when it's cool...

Jeff in TX

Wow, you're in a  delima here. A 3mm wet suit depending on the outside temps could be just right or maybe not enough.  I'd say if outside temps are in the 50 and low 60's 3mm should do fine.  If temps are below 50 you might want to go to a 5mm.  If you drop into water below 60 degrees, 3mm isn't going to be enough to keep you warm.  You'll be wet, cold, and miserable.  A 5mm or 7mm could be the right ticket.  I'm with Chiro1989, rent a couple different wet suits and go for a swim in the lake.  Also, once you get out sit in your kayak for an hour or so to see if they're warm enough, just right or too warm.

I'll be curious to see what you pick!  Best of luck! 

Jayhawker

Also, rolling is a handy skill...but be sure to practice getting out of your kayak when it's upside down especially if you are wearing a spray skirt....and getting back into your boat in deep water....did I mention the need for a hand operated bilge pump?

GunNut

Varmintmist said:

GunNut said:

10canyon53 said:

$1000 fine if you post any pics of you in a wet suit.....

Fixed your typo...

Really? We have a Zorba on here and I get grief about a wetsuit??? How about if I put it to "Too sexy" and post a vid?

Ok, I'll get the popcorn!  BTW you MIGHT show up on a few YouTube channels.  Just saying 

GunNut

Jeff in TX said:

Wow, you're in a  delima here. A 3mm wet suit depending on the outside temps could be just right or maybe not enough.  I'd say if outside temps are in the 50 and low 60's 3mm should do fine.  If temps are below 50 you might want to go to a 5mm.  If you drop into water below 60 degrees, 3mm isn't going to be enough to keep you warm.  You'll be wet, cold, and miserable.  A 5mm or 7mm could be the right ticket.  I'm with Chiro1989, rent a couple different wet suits and go for a swim in the lake.  Also, once you get out sit in your kayak for an hour or so to see if they're warm enough, just right or too warm.

I'll be curious to see what you pick!  Best of luck! 

I must be missing something here.  We are not talking about swimming or diving but just wearing while rowing and a potential short duration quick dunk in the water no?  I've been in a 3mm wetsuit in outside temps of 60s and I was DYING until I got into the water.  Oh well, my experience is all SCUBA related anyway so I'll defer to other's opinions.

Jeff in TX

GunNut said:

Jeff in TX said:

Wow, you're in a  delima here. A 3mm wet suit depending on the outside temps could be just right or maybe not enough.  I'd say if outside temps are in the 50 and low 60's 3mm should do fine.  If temps are below 50 you might want to go to a 5mm.  If you drop into water below 60 degrees, 3mm isn't going to be enough to keep you warm.  You'll be wet, cold, and miserable.  A 5mm or 7mm could be the right ticket.  I'm with Chiro1989, rent a couple different wet suits and go for a swim in the lake.  Also, once you get out sit in your kayak for an hour or so to see if they're warm enough, just right or too warm.

I'll be curious to see what you pick!  Best of luck! 

I must be missing something here.  We are not talking about swimming or diving but just wearing while rowing and a potential short duration quick dunk in the water no?  I've been in a 3mm wetsuit in outside temps of 60s and I was DYING until I got into the water.  Oh well, my experience is all SCUBA related anyway so I'll defer to other's opinions.

GunNut said:

Jeff in TX said:

Wow, you're in a  delima here. A 3mm wet suit depending on the outside temps could be just right or maybe not enough.  I'd say if outside temps are in the 50 and low 60's 3mm should do fine.  If temps are below 50 you might want to go to a 5mm.  If you drop into water below 60 degrees, 3mm isn't going to be enough to keep you warm.  You'll be wet, cold, and miserable.  A 5mm or 7mm could be the right ticket.  I'm with Chiro1989, rent a couple different wet suits and go for a swim in the lake.  Also, once you get out sit in your kayak for an hour or so to see if they're warm enough, just right or too warm.

I'll be curious to see what you pick!  Best of luck! 

I must be missing something here.  We are not talking about swimming or diving but just wearing while rowing and a potential short duration quick dunk in the water no?  I've been in a 3mm wetsuit in outside temps of 60s and I was DYING until I got into the water.  Oh well, my experience is all SCUBA related anyway so I'll defer to other's opinions.

Mine too, though I've dove in 60 degree water once and wish I had a bit more than 3mm. I'm not nor have ever been a cold water diver, not for me brother.  I'm just saying once in the water and water temps are in the 50's or below, 3mm won't do much.  A quick dip and you're still soaked.  Once out, you'll be cold wet and miserable.  

Varmintmist

Jayhawker said:

Also, rolling is a handy skill...but be sure to practice getting out of your kayak when it's upside down especially if you are wearing a spray skirt....and getting back into your boat in deep water....did I mention the need for a hand operated bilge pump?

Have paddle float and bilge pump. Got the wet exit down. That included learning half the roll..... so I guess I am just working on the other half so I only need to learn 180 degrees of roll. See I am halfway there.

Varmintmist

GunNut said:

Jeff in TX said:

Wow, you're in a  delima here. A 3mm wet suit depending on the outside temps could be just right or maybe not enough.  I'd say if outside temps are in the 50 and low 60's 3mm should do fine.  If temps are below 50 you might want to go to a 5mm.  If you drop into water below 60 degrees, 3mm isn't going to be enough to keep you warm.  You'll be wet, cold, and miserable.  A 5mm or 7mm could be the right ticket.  I'm with Chiro1989, rent a couple different wet suits and go for a swim in the lake.  Also, once you get out sit in your kayak for an hour or so to see if they're warm enough, just right or too warm.

I'll be curious to see what you pick!  Best of luck! 

I must be missing something here.  We are not talking about swimming or diving but just wearing while rowing and a potential short duration quick dunk in the water no?  I've been in a 3mm wetsuit in outside temps of 60s and I was DYING until I got into the water.  Oh well, my experience is all SCUBA related anyway so I'll defer to other's opinions.

Quick is the plan, however for the learning part, unless I am one of those that pick it up immediately, I will be spending time wet. I wish there was instruction because from everything I have read, even slow learners should have a basic roll in a lesson or two. Self teaching I will get it over time but it is the hard way. (should be my epitaph)

The trip, the temp should be in the 60's by noon less 5 through the canyon, but the water will be cold. As I stated, the recommendation of the outfitter is 2mm or better.

"

WHAT TO WEAR WHEN BOATING ON PINE CREEK:

“There’s no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong outfit.”

Hypothermia is considered the greatest danger on Pine Creek.  A cold water shock may inhibit your breathing.

Rent a wetsuit which virtually eliminates the dangers of hypothermia.  Pine Creek is always cold during the normal paddling season.  Wetsuits (2 mm or thicker) can be worn with additional layers of non-cotton clothing like drysuits, fleece, wool, long underwear, water repellent clothing, etc. 

Always wear a type III Coast Guard approved lifejacket / PFD. "

Here is my plan. The 3mm FJ, with a splash jacket over it (semi dry). If needed, a fleece under that and I can always layer poly pro under that. If it is warmer, the jacket can be opened and so can the FJ I was looking at when on a flatter part. If it is sunny, probably both.

Since I will have the suit, It will be tested attempting the half of the roll I dont have down in a more controlled environment.The roll I want is a layback roll where one of the first learning moves is to lay back on the deck, and ease into the water and float with the the boat on your butt. I expect I will come out a few times.

IF repeat IF, I get a roll down and head for bigger water, then I agree a drysuit would be a real good idea. But for now ....

GunNut

Aaaaaaaash gotcha!  I think your plan is sound.

Jayhawker

Yeah...the first half of that roll thing is easy... 

Diver43

Wetwear.com.  custom wetsuits.
They will make a suit to fit YOU
Custom k
Allows for mixed thickness, oversized armpit and shoulder, but not baggy
Doesnt cost anymore than a name brand wetsuit.

tennmike

Sounds like you have a solid plan regarding clothing and other stuff. Only thing I can recommend to include is a good fire starting kit if you do roll and start feeling really cold from being wet. Being able to hit the bank and getting a fire started to warm up is something to at least consider.

Linefinder

The only thing I know about wetsuits is that I rented one once.

You don't want to do that.

Mike

Great Outdoors

I own a marine construction company- we work in the water year round (Charleston SC) during the winter we are comfortable working in the water with a 3/2 wetsuit( 3mm body 2 mm legs and arms) until the water temps get in the lower 50's- then we just add another 3/2 over the first.

 You will get wet in a wetsuit- and it's cold until your body warms the water in the wetsuit- if you burp the suit it re-fills with cold water. Your wetsuit should be so tight you have to suck in your gut and barely be able to zip it.

If you don't want to be wet- and cold at times- get a drysuit. Lots more money.

Great Outdoors

We wore 3/2 wetsuits white water rafting in Tennessee in late October and were comfortable- the guides also had on wetsuits- everyone else froze their tails off

Jeff in TX

I've currently sent my new wetsuit to Terrapin Wetsuits out of San Antonio.  I'm having a relief zipper put in.  Total cost $34 and it's well worth it.  I'll never pee in a wetsuit.  Chris does a great job!

Varmintmist

Linefinder said:

The only thing I know about wetsuits is that I rented one once.

You don't want to do that.

Mike

already worn rentals, one reason buy is an option

Varmintmist

Great Outdoors said:

We wore 3/2 wetsuits white water rafting in Tennessee in late October and were comfortable- the guides also had on wetsuits- everyone else froze their tails off

And there ya go.

Currently looking at a NRS 3.0 FJ, with zipper....

Dry would be great, but I will have to get a lot more serious about cold water paddling before I drop that much. A splash jacket should cover keeping mostly dry unless a OOBE happens.

tennmike

Great Outdoors said:

We wore 3/2 wetsuits white water rafting in Tennessee in late October and were comfortable- the guides also had on wetsuits- everyone else froze their tails off

If that was on the Ocoee River I bet those without wetsuits were really cold. That river is, or can be, cold in the summer, too.

Linefinder

Varmintmist said:

Linefinder said:

The only thing I know about wetsuits is that I rented one once.

You don't want to do that.

Mike

already worn rentals, one reason buy is an option

Having both been Marines we both know that living in slime is not unbearable if......

a) It is natural slime.

or

b) It's your own slime

or

c) It's a combination of both.

However, squeezing into a wet suit that felt like it had been lubed with Vasoline and toenail clippings and smelled like my bachelor-hood vegetable crisper/Jr Hi gym locker is a place I refuse to go again. And I ain't squeamish. But that's a line I won't cross.

Mike

Great Outdoors

tennmike said:

Great Outdoors said:

We wore 3/2 wetsuits white water rafting in Tennessee in late October and were comfortable- the guides also had on wetsuits- everyone else froze their tails off

If that was on the Ocoee River I bet those without wetsuits were really cold. That river is, or can be, cold in the summer, too.

You know your cold water- damned yankees were running their yaps about the dumb hicks wearing wetsuits- until halfway through the trip they were blue bellies just like their ancestors

Great Outdoors

Linefinder said:

Varmintmist said:

Linefinder said:

The only thing I know about wetsuits is that I rented one once.

You don't want to do that.

Mike

already worn rentals, one reason buy is an option

Having both been Marines we both know that living in slime is not unbearable if......

a) It is natural slime.

or

b) It's your own slime

or

c) It's a combination of both.

However, squeezing into a wet suit that felt like it had been lubed with Vasoline and toenail clippings and smelled like my bachelor-hood vegetable crisper/Jr Hi gym locker is a place I refuse to go again. And I ain't squeamish. But that's a line I won't cross.

Mike

Linefinder said:

Varmintmist said:

Linefinder said:

The only thing I know about wetsuits is that I rented one once.

You don't want to do that.

Mike

already worn rentals, one reason buy is an option

Having both been Marines we both know that living in slime is not unbearable if......

a) It is natural slime.

or

b) It's your own slime

or

c) It's a combination of both.

However, squeezing into a wet suit that felt like it had been lubed with Vasoline and toenail clippings and smelled like my bachelor-hood vegetable crisper/Jr Hi gym locker is a place I refuse to go again. And I ain't squeamish. But that's a line I won't cross.

Mike

Damnit Jarheads- P.I. is supposed to make you eat steel and **** bullets. You wearing skirts these days?

Linefinder

No...never did. But I went through boot at San Diego. Hardest part was keeping the make-up off the necks of our Blues. Picturesque was the order of the day.

Mike