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Deputy involved shooting at my former SO

Gene LGene L Senior MemberPosts: 11,727 Senior Member
Very quick, woman with a knife launched herself at deputies.  Five shots, fast shots.  Here's the story and a video of the shooting.

https://www.onlineathens.com/news/20200922/update-officials-release-bodycam-video-of-oconee-county-deputy-shooting-killing-woman-with-knife
Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.

Replies

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,142 Senior Member
    Damn sorry for the loss of life, and sorry that officer had to do that.

      Looks justified from the video, and I commend him and the partner for keeping a cool head, communicating usefully with each other, and with the suspect.  


    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,726 Senior Member
    IMO....she should have been tased long before that. Not saying the officer did wrong, but, in the state she was in something bad was going to happen sooner or later.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    Seems to me once things went really south he didn't have much time to decide.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,142 Senior Member
    Michakav said:
    IMO....she should have been tased long before that. Not saying the officer did wrong, but, in the state she was in something bad was going to happen sooner or later.
    in such a compressed environment, he probably could not deploy the taser.  First- a taser needs a certain amount of room to get the correct prong spread to work properly and second- most departments that deploy tasers require there be backup with "lethal cover" (partner with a gun out) to back you up in case the taser fails (which they do- a LOT). 

    In that tight of an apartment, he probably could not use the taser. 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,070 Senior Member
    edited September 30 #6
    Michakav said:
    IMO....she should have been tased long before that. Not saying the officer did wrong, but, in the state she was in something bad was going to happen sooner or later.
    in such a compressed environment, he probably could not deploy the taser.  First- a taser needs a certain amount of room to get the correct prong spread to work properly and second- most departments that deploy tasers require there be backup with "lethal cover" (partner with a gun out) to back you up in case the taser fails (which they do- a LOT). 

    In that tight of an apartment, he probably could not use the taser. 
    Apparently they tried a taser...

    "The sheriff’s office reported that Swisher was covering Moss with a Taser, which he also fired when she rushed the officers."
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,858 Senior Member
    In the video, sounded to me like they were trying to coordinate a Taser attempt before she charged at them. And the Taser was deployed just before the shooting started. The Taser apparently didn't work..

    She made her choice, even if it wasn't with a clear mind. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    I don't know all the details, but I think the Taser and her leap towards the deputy were at the same time and the other deputy shot simultaneously when she launched herself.  So no time for the Taser to work. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    Based on the limited article and the video, it looked like a clean shoot to me.

    She stabbed a dog and hit a man on the head with a pipe, she is certainly capable of lethal violence. She's ranting incoherently at times so her mental state is in question but they were inside for seventeen minutes trying to talk her down so, apparently, the officers still thought that was possible. Good officers don't actually "Want" to go around shooting people but she was non-compliant (warned to drop the knife 4 times in a 47 second video). I'm guessing the officer with the Taser was maneuvering around to get a clearer shot when she decided to rush. I'm guessing she saw the officer repositioning and that triggered her attack. In her mental state, any little thing could have triggered a charge.
    Why she was behaving like that (off her meds, illegal drugs, tragic event) who knows but she acted with apparent lethal intent towards the officer and the officer was justified in his response.
    Cramped quarters don't leave many options like a rapid retreat. Why not just over power her? Maybe, but you'll probably need both hands for that so in the 1 second it takes her to reach you, you'll probably only have time to drop your weapon on the floor so you can free both hands. If that was your plan after 17 minutes, you should have reholstered long ago. I hope your Chuck Norris skills are up to the task.

    Barring any new evidence that we don't know about, it looked like a clean shoot to me.

    My only suggestion, helmet cams! Don't put the camera at chest level because when the arms go up you get that obstructed view.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    She has a long history since she was a teenager.  I think the deputies tried to talk her down and the one with the Taser fired at just about the time she launched herself and the deputy fired at the same time.  Came from a good family.   A good shoot.  while there will be Monday morning QB questions as there always is.  Our deputies don't wear helmets, BTW.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    I drove through Oconee County last week headed to Clayton, GA.  Nice area.

    The TASER has (in my opinion) become a jading tool for LE.  It's effectiveness is a roll of the dice in many scenarios and in the time elapsed after probe contact and officers expecting (or waiting) for a physiological result the tactical advantage is diminished or outright lost.

    Fortunately there were two cops and one had lethal cover as insurance for a poor TASER effect.  It paid off.  If this was simgle-officer and he tried a TASER there maybe have been a cop funeral instead. 

    I'm curious to know if the probes landed and something affected proper NMI (neuromuscular incapacitation).
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    edited November 1 #12
    I don't know where the probes landed at all, and believe the Taser was deployed at the same time the gun was shot, but don't know that.  Her launching herself is what precipitated the gunshot, her waving the knife ahead of her but across the room probably made it seem like they could talk her down prior to Tasering her.  I don't know if any of my assumptions are fact, I'm basing them on what I probably would have done in that situation.

    I like Tasers, but they're not for armed subjects UNLESS there's a backup to them.  Can't and shouldn't be relied upon against a gun or a knife.

    Biden's "shoot them in the leg" certainly isn't a solution.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,142 Senior Member
    This shooting made the “Active Self Protection” Badge Cam videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnoA0xmDxUk


    Great breakdown of the shooting and the problem with Tasers.  Also tiurns out that the host is a friend of a friend of yours, Gene.

    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    Lee Weems took over from me in 2009.  He's a big-time firearms educator.  And teaches classes in LE, too.  
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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