Proof Marks Old Shotgun

CGSMakaveli1986

looking for some help on this shotgun my father-in-law recovered from his parents garage.

Gene L

This thread is in the wrong place...should be in General Firearms, where it will get more views. I think the Eagle over N is a German proof for smokeless powder (Nitro).  The 16 is apparently the gauge...possibly the 65 mm is the same, although I can't seem to look it up.  Can't make out the rest of the marks.

CGSMakaveli1986

can anyone provide more information on this gun? I think it is German, N for Nitro and M for multi Barrell? Cant find anyone on the rest of the marks. 

Big Al1

I think the first one means its a 16 gauge or .65 millimeters.

Big Al1

I was guessing!! 
Millimeters is foreign to me!

ilove22s

welcome,

try googling for "German proof" marks.  

Note, alot of European countries have their own way of doing things and not every country is the same.

unless you have a book like the "blue book" you will have to find the various proof marks online.

good luck.

CGSMakaveli1986

i spent an hour looking at different proof marks online and couldn't line them up. Some looked similar but not identical. My father-in-law thinks his dad brought it back from the war. No inscriptions on the stock. ill keep looking. 

Linefinder

It's a good looking shotgun, that's for sure.

Mike

waipapa13

65mm is the chamber length (2 1/2 inch), 16 the gauge, N is the nitro proof.
I'm trying to look up the proofs, my suspicion is that this is Suhl made gun.

edit. I was wrong, appears to be proofed at Ulm.

waipapa13

The "M" letter and crest seem to indicate to me that the shotgun in question was tested at the Ulm proofhouse in Germany, the "N" and crest indicate its nitro proofing, i.e suitability for smokeless powder.

waipapa13

Pretty sure the monogram "S" u "S" indicates Sauer und Sohn, or Sauer and Son, which is why I initially said Suhl.
I believe it to have been proofed at Ulm for some strange reason, but manufactured at Suhl by Sauer.

Freezer

waipapa13 said:

Pretty sure the monogram "S" u "S" indicates Sauer und Sohn, or Sauer and Son, which is why I initially said Suhl.
I believe it to have been proofed at Ulm for some strange reason, but manufactured at Suhl by Sauer.

You hit the nail on the head! It's the oldest firearms manufacturer in Germany and is now Sig Sauer. Wikipedia has some good info on the company. 

tennmike

knitepoet said:

Not often I disagree with BigAl on old firearm questions,  while I agree with the 16 being the gauge, I am pretty sure the 65m/m is the chamber length,  which is 2.5"

Yep. 2.5 inches x 25.4 = 63.5 mm. 25.4mm per inch. Or you could do the 65mm divided by 25.4mm/inch and get 2.55". I can do the linear and diameter measurements conversions, but the thread dia. and pitch measurements in metric make me say bad words. 

Spk

It also seems to be made of 1144 carbon "stress proof"  steel.

I still don't know what the Badge is. I'm looking.

Spk

CGSMakaveli1986 said:

i spent an hour looking at different proof marks online and couldn't line them up. Some looked similar but not identical. My father-in-law thinks his dad brought it back from the war.

 ..

 If this was brought back from the war then 1144 could be the date stamp (November 1944). My only issue with that is the stamp/badge above it wasn't used until 1950, according to what I can find online. Also, the serial number seems a bit high to be pre-WWII.

I'm still looking. 🔎