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Dog attack- defensive gun ‘use’

bullsi1911bullsi1911 ModeratorPosts: 11,247 Senior Member
Enough time has elapsed now with no further developments that I guess I can relate this story that happened last week.

I work from home every day- not just during the pandemic.  Part of my ‘routine’ is to take one or both dogs for a walk in the afternoon to get away from the desk and enjoy the neighborhood.  Last Monday, I was going to hook up the young dog when the old dog decided he wanted to go as well.  Our older dog is very elderly, half blind, mostly deaf, slightly senile, and cant go very far.  When he gets out on a walk, we usually just go a few hundred yards, then drop him back at the house while I take the other idiot... i mean dog... for a mile or two.  

So- its still cold outside.  I have a gun on my belt, but when I throw on a jacket, I just drop a small gun in the jacket pocket as well.  

I get out, and get not even two houses down the street when I see two Pitt Bulls turbo out of a house about 2 doors further down the street, and visually lock on to us.  They start snarling and barrel down the sidewalk direct at us.  The younger dog sees this, his back hair goes up, he puffs up and starts barking at these two dogs.  So- of course, the Pitts just start barreling at us faster.  

Old dog- has no clue what’s going on.  Sniffing at a bush, checking pee-mail.

When I walk the dogs, I’m in the habit of keeping both leashes in my left hand to keep the right free for any ‘social work’ that might be needed.  It’s just part of the normal- I also don't carry grocery bags in my right hand.  

I get the command voice on and start shouting commands at the dogs.  Don’t remember exactly what I said, but it was something along the lines of “get back” “stop,” etc... all this is going on in just mere seconds.

Well, the dogs all meet.  Our younger dog meets the charge like a champ (15 pound rat terrier versus a probably 50 lb Pitt), turning the larger of the two attackers and spinning him into the bush.  Old dog just gets clobbered and bowled over.  Thats when that attacking dog dog meets a size 14  boot up close and personal to his chest.  I then kick the hell out of the first dog, when I see the second one going for my old dog again.  I make the conscious decision “This is not how his story ends.  If that dog latches on to Old Dog, things are going to get loud.”  Thats when the pocket gun comes out.  Young dog and first attacker are getting at it again, so that Pitt gets another dose of “boot to the chest”.  

Right about here, one of the neighbors (a good friend of the wife) is driving by, sees what’s going on, and lays on the horn trying to scare off the attacking dogs.  It’s just chaos, yelling, snarling barking dogs, horns blaring, some dumbass with gun in hand....

I land a couple more kicks on the Pitts, and a lady that I assume is the owner (Never seen her before, but the house they all came out of is a rental) comes out to the sidewalk and starts yelling for the dogs.  I finally create enough room with a few more kicks for me to yank my young dog back by the leash.  The one Pitt that is attacking the old dog goes trotting back to the lady, while the bigger  one steps back a few feet, lifts his leg, marks a bush, and trots back home.

I talk for a few seconds with the neighbor that stopped her car (I later find out from my wife she is a super liberal NJ transplant- but she never said anything about the gun), then go back home.

So- aftermath.  Not much.  No shots fired.  I bruised the heck out of the top of my right foot kicking the dogs.  Couple of odd conversations with next door neighbors.  “Did your cameras catch anything odd Monday at about 2:30?”  Found out from one neighbor that the dogs and the lady that called them were just visiting with the people in the rental house.  So- hopefully no long term issues with “You kicked my dogs!”  My dogs were not injured, and aside from some slobber on them were no worse for the wear

Lessons-
 1) Non lethal options.  I misplaced my can of pepper spray a few weeks ago.  More has been ordered and is back in the daily load out.  It sure would have been easier to give them a squirt of hot sauce at 10 feet then to go through all that.
 2) Hardware- the gun on my belt (under a shirt, under a buttoned jacket) is a gun I have 100% faith in.  A CZ P-10C that I have competed with, trained with, and won some contests with.   The gun in my pocket that I had when the balloon went up?  A gun that was specifically bought for the purpose of “If I need to throw this in a dumpster in Vegas, I won’t care!”—an SCCY CPX2.   While it did exactly what I needed it to, I have much better choices for a gun that I may be defending my life or the life of dogs/ family with.  
 3) As with other defense encounters, I am very gad I did not have to shoot.  I knew my ‘line in the sand’, and was able to work/ fight to make sure it was not crossed.  

All in all, it was a terrifying few moments.

To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov

Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,199 Senior Member
    Glad it ended like it did.

    Many years back, while living in the sticks, I got home from work around dusk, parked my truck by the backyard deck, and a mangy looking German Shepard mix kind of thing launched itself from under the deck and quickly treed me onto the hood of my truck. After a minute or two he trotted off into the nearby woodsline.

    I didn't really think that much about it at the time...just one of those things. But, it happened again the next evening. On the third evening, he caught a .357 Mag Glaser Blue center of chest. The only dog I enjoyed putting down.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,352 Senior Member
    A walking stick or cane are another “less lethal” dog option. Cold Steel makes a few options that would save your food from bruising and, handled adequately.......would do a dog in right quick. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,794 Senior Member
    Sounds to me like you handled it splendidly. Fortunately it didn't escalate further. 

    Honestly, when it comes to "urban defense," off leash dogs that decide I'm a chew toy are my biggest concern. 
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,838 Senior Member
    Alls well that ends well, but, might have been prudent to assume that you needed to be the first one to contact the police, but, since none showed up, alls well that ends well. I would reach out to the owner of that rental property, I would think they would have some liability to some extent, I would appreciate the heads up if I owned it.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,352 Senior Member
    I second the motion to first contact with LE. Better your true story than their lie. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,095 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I second the motion to first contact with LE. Better your true story than their lie. 
    This.  911 and your story/statement go a long way.  He who gets it recorded first wins.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,300 Senior Member
    All I will say, is from first hand experience, you have better self control than I do.
    Though you knew that your "attackers" belonged to someone instead of being part of a roaming pack MIGHT have made a difference in my cases...

    SSS
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,821 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #9
    You did the right thing. In GA, dogs attacking dogs is not a shooting situation.  Dogs attacking YOU is.  This happened in my county a couple of years back, and the owner of the dog attacking his dog shot the attacking dog.  He didn't have the right to do so but he didn't get in trouble.  While it's technically not legal, most people would forgive someone for saving their dog...I think.  The other thing is bullets ricocheting off the pavement and endangering the neighborhood.  A chance worthwhile in defending yourself.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,095 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    You did the right thing. In GA, dogs attacking dogs is not a shooting situation.  Dogs attacking YOU is.  This happened in my county a couple of years back, and the owner of the dog attacking his dog shot the attacking dog.  He didn't have the right to do so but he didn't get in trouble.  While it's technically not legal, most people would forgive someone for saving their dog...I think.  The other thing is bullets ricocheting off the pavement and endangering the neighborhood.  A chance worthwhile in defending yourself.
    This is true.  In NC your dog is considered “properly” and you con not use deadly force to protect properly.  Texas is probably different.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,247 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Gene L said:
    You did the right thing. In GA, dogs attacking dogs is not a shooting situation.  Dogs attacking YOU is.  This happened in my county a couple of years back, and the owner of the dog attacking his dog shot the attacking dog.  He didn't have the right to do so but he didn't get in trouble.  While it's technically not legal, most people would forgive someone for saving their dog...I think.  The other thing is bullets ricocheting off the pavement and endangering the neighborhood.  A chance worthwhile in defending yourself.
    This is true.  In NC your dog is considered “properly” and you con not use deadly force to protect properly.  Texas is probably different.
    Correct. Laws for deadly force in defense of animals in TX are based around Texas’ history with ranching/ cattle/ hunting.  You have a lot more leeway in shooting an animal attacking your animals than you do in shooting an animal attacking a person.

    One way it works is you can go hunt down a dog that is known to be one that attacks livestock (or wild game)- you can even have an employee that did not witness the attack go and kill a dog that is known to have attacked livestock, but not have witnessed the attack. 

    HOWEVER- if a dog attacks a person, you are not legal to go get a gun, come back and shoot the dog because you left the area and the threat was over. I know a guy the ended up in legal hot water for this very reason. The dog attacked him on his porch, he went inside, got his gun, came back out and shot the dog. If he had done that in defense of livestock/ animals- he would have been 100% in the clear.  
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 844 Senior Member
    Well done, after getting bailed up by a pitbull a few years back whilst out walking my tolerance for canine BS is zero.
    Interestingly enough down here an unsecured dog on public or private property that attacks or even gives you reason to believe it may attack i.e running toward you is allowed to be killed by any means available, its considered to be the owners burden to control their animal.

    Private property, shooting unknown dogs on sight is common and legal.

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,816 Senior Member
    This is a situation where acting on my opinion would be disastrous. I figure as soon as dog owner losses control of the dogs. Attack victim is justified. I'd be volunteering for crucifixion here. 

    I figure to use a knife after teeth are sunk into my hide. Images of injury matter in the aftermath.

    Kicking sounds good also.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,231 Senior Member
    In Miami it was not uncommon have dogs loose in the suburbs. What I found that works is a collapsible baton. It's not a normal sound when it snicks out and they seems to understand what will happen if they get closer.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 355 Member
    Tugar said:
    In Miami it was not uncommon have dogs loose in the suburbs. What I found that works is a collapsible baton. It's not a normal sound when it snicks out and they seems to understand what will happen if they get closer.
    The sound perhaps, but I've had dogs (that I have never previously hit with anything) turn and go the other way just seeing me raise a cane.  Just as deer respond to a perceived 'predator' type movement, I think dogs respond differently to someone who acts like prey vs someone who appears ready to attack them back.  I do like the collapsible baton idea though - I no longer need to walk around with a cane as much.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
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