Binocular Magnification? - Multi Purpose

Zee

I have several types of spotting scopes and 8x binos in use. Even have a pair of Steiner 10x and 20x binos that I don’t really like. 

The other day, I looked through a pair of Leupold BX-5 Santiam HD 15x56mm binos and H-O-L-Y CRAP!!  Probably the clearest pair of binos I’ve ever looked through!!!  Absolutely amazing!  

So now I’ve decided that I need a pair for general purpose use  to fill the gap between 8x binos and 20X plus spotting scopes. 

By general purpose, I mean that I want to use them on the range for spotting impacts and trace at distance and maybe holes at 100 yards or less. And, I want to use them in the field for spotting targets and judging animals. 

My question is that I’m bouncing between 12x and 15x for the binos. 

I can get them at a discount and there is about a $200 difference between the pair. 

My fear is that 12x won’t be enough for general purpose glass or that 15x may be too much!
I know 8x can’t cut it for any of what I’m looking for and 10x isn’t enough of an increase. 15x will be great for spotting trace at distance and glassing far away, but it seems like too much power for any glassing under 200 or 300 yards. 

I’d rather not carry around two pairs of binos to do one job. 

Purpose:
-Bullet Holes 100 or less. 
-Bullet Trace/Impact out to distance. 
-Glassing for targets/animals near to far. 

-Judging animals near to far. 

I have 8x binos and 20x(+) spotting scopes. 

Which one would you choose to fill the gap in between?  Range and field. 

N454casull

Are you using a tripod or free hand? 

Zee

N454casull said:

Are you using a tripod or free hand? 

Mostly freehand. But, could put them on a tripod as needed. 

mitdr774

I would go with the 15x.  I dont think 10-12x would be enough of a jump over 8x to satisfy the need.  I have debated a pair of 15x for when im at the range.  A 12x scope lets me see the target clear enough at 100 yards to really see the holes, but most of my rifles have 2-7 or 3-9 scopes on them.  The cheap spotting scope I have is bulky and a pain to get setup on target and focused.  A couple shakes from recoil and its easier to just grab a rifle with a 4-12 to check the target than it is to get the scope back on target.

shotgunshooter3

12x all the way, especially since you intend to free hand them. I faced this EXACT situation last summer in preparation for my hunting trip. 12x is still enough for the spotting purposes you mentioned, but not so much that you can't see anything from the magnified shakes.

IMO 15x is a tripod/rest only situation, and at that point you might as well get a small spotting scope (which you have several of).

Also, I ended up with Meopta Meostar B1.1 HDs, but the BX-5 was my second choice.

CHIRO1989

You need to take them outside the shop and look at stuff, bring a rangefinder with, should be pretty evident which one you like in a few minutes.

Zee

CHIRO1989 said:

You need to take them outside the shop and look at stuff, bring a rangefinder with, should be pretty evident which one you like in a few minutes.

I took the 15x outside and looked across the street. Read tags, and small signs on storefronts and such. 

Didn’t have the 12x available. 

Johnny reb

No experience with those binoculars. 

If glassing at long distance is going to be a regular duty i would go with the 15x and mounted on a tripod. With a good pan head. How is the eye relief on them? If staring thru glass for an extended amount of time  that is important. So is a good tripod and a good head to pan smoothly and to stay in position when u come off them. It is alot easier to set behind a good pair of high mag binoculars and pick apart terrain than  setting behind a spotter. Unless you buy a swarovski with the bdx attatchment. Which turns it from a spotter to essentially an extremely powerful bino. Using both eyes creates a whole lot less eye strain.

Johnny reb

As mentioned i have no experience with those binoculars. I have used the swarovski and zeiss. The zeiss can be had for the same as the leupold. The swarovski retails higher but can be found as low as the others. Retail is a few hundred more than the previous 2. I would try and go somewhere and compare all 3. Leica is another option than can be had for roughly the same as zeiss and leupold. I think the leica in that size is only manufactires in the geo vid  model. Is there a place within a reasoable driving distance you can compare?

Zee

The advantage the Leupold have is the discount I am able to get. 

GunNut

Zee said:

CHIRO1989 said:

You need to take them outside the shop and look at stuff, bring a rangefinder with, should be pretty evident which one you like in a few minutes.

I took the 15x outside and looked across the street. Read tags, and small signs on storefronts and such. 

Didn’t have the 12x available. 

The proof is in low light and the higher the X the lower the light it will gather given the same objective lens size.  What I do is go the store on a cloudy day.  Find a building(s) down the street and try to see details in the shadows and dark corners of buildings, maybe even through windows.  If they have a good return policy I'd buy them and run dusk and dawn tests on a couple and return the rejects.  Looking for bullet holes on targets in the few minutes after the sun goes down is a GOOD test for glass.

I've always been happy with a good 10X and have not needed more but I'm not in the wide open spaces you find yourself in all the time.  I'm more likely to try to peek through dense foliage to try to discern details of interest like animal body parts that don't belong in there.

Just about any good quality 10X should see bullet holes at 100 yards.  The rest of your requirements are the most demanding of the glass.  Looking at animals with different glass side by side will show you the advantages of one over the other the best.  The differences in the detail on the fur will tell you how sharp one is agains the other.  I remember trying two sets of binos side by side and I could see every hair on a buck with one (Great!) but with the next one I could see the tick bites as little bumps on the fur (BEST!)

But then again, I would not sweat this one too much.  If anything you are pretty good at holding glass steady 

GunNut

Another though and maybe I'm oversimplifying this...  Why not just look through one of your scoped rifles while out in the field at what your "normal targets" would be for these binos at 12 and then at 15x and see what magnification works better for you?  Anything with a 50mm or better objective lens should work, no?

Zee

I’ve kinda been doing that with the Bushnell Spotting Scope I put on the rifle stock. 

N454casull

For freehand I’d go with the 12x. I have a hard time keeping a 10x still. 

GunNut

Zee said:

I’ve kinda been doing that with the Bushnell Spotting Scope I put on the rifle stock. 

Withholding crucial info aren’t we?!? 😁.  And???

Johnny reb

Zee said:

The advantage the Leupold have is the discount I am able to get. 

I forgot about those. They are a fairly good discount from what I remember.
I would still if possible compare if I could. I know the cost has substantially changed. If you actually plan on spending a lot of time behind that glass you want to find what gives you the best eye relief. 

Zee

GunNut said:

Zee said:

I’ve kinda been doing that with the Bushnell Spotting Scope I put on the rifle stock. 

Withholding crucial info aren’t we?!? 😁.  And???

Well, that’s kinda what started this thread. 

Looking at anything sub 200 yards and I feel restricted with 15x and power down the Bushnell to 8-12x depending. Past 200 yards and I’ll crank that sucker up to 15x. Further than 400 and I like 15-20+ power. 

So, it’s annoying but the answer is......it depends on what I’m doing. So, that doesn’t help. Because I’m looking for a bridge that spans the 8-10x binos and the 20x spotting scope. 

jbohio

I'd probably go with the 12x.  We all know, good quality glass makes up for magnification.  Much like if you look through VX2 scope, and then a VX3 at the same power, then switch to a low end Vortex or something.
I think, for me personally,  15x would be to wiggly, especially for extended free hand glassing.

Uncle Fester

If you are going to do it, get the 15x.  I think you’ll struggle to see bullet holes with 12x. 

GunNut

Zee said:

GunNut said:

Zee said:

I’ve kinda been doing that with the Bushnell Spotting Scope I put on the rifle stock. 

Withholding crucial info aren’t we?!? 😁.  And???

Well, that’s kinda what started this thread. 

Looking at anything sub 200 yards and I feel restricted with 15x and power down the Bushnell to 8-12x depending. Past 200 yards and I’ll crank that sucker up to 15x. Further than 400 and I like 15-20+ power. 

So, it’s annoying but the answer is......it depends on what I’m doing. So, that doesn’t help. Because I’m looking for a bridge that spans the 8-10x binos and the 20x spotting scope. 

Well the mathematical answer is 15x but that might not be optimal.  What you need to figure out is at what distances are you most likely to be glassing and then compromise (Lord I hate that word) on the rest.  

I’d take one hunting day and set the scope at 12 and leave it there all day.  Then next day set it at 15 and leave it there all day.  See which day is less frustrating...

What I suspect will happen is the same as what happens when you buy a TV.  They set you up in front of a zillion TVs and of course some will look better than others when compared side by side and depending on content playing (which by the way the stores do ON PURPOSE, they also screw with the color settings on the cheaper sets to make them less appealing, but that’s a whole subject on its own) but at the end ANY of them will look great when you get it home and it’s your only viewing choice.

Now when you have options you can always see one “better” than the other.  I think when you settle on one option you’ll just make it work for you and be happy.  Leupold is great quality glass, so I think you’ll love either bino, though I still believe that the dusk/dawn test will tell you more between the two magnification settings.  To paraphrase what someone wise told me, you can’t shoot what you can’t see. 😁

Spk

Zee said:

GunNut said:

Zee said:

I’ve kinda been doing that with the Bushnell Spotting Scope I put on the rifle stock. 

Withholding crucial info aren’t we?!? 😁.  And???

Well, that’s kinda what started this thread. 

Looking at anything sub 200 yards and I feel restricted with 15x and power down the Bushnell to 8-12x depending. Past 200 yards and I’ll crank that sucker up to 15x. Further than 400 and I like 15-20+ power. 

So, it’s annoying but the answer is......it depends on what I’m doing. So, that doesn’t help. Because I’m looking for a bridge that spans the 8-10x binos and the 20x spotting scope. 

What you're describing is a variable power binocular. I'm guessing you're ruling those out because it's hard to get high image quality and variable power in the same product. Okay np.

You think it doesn't help but I think this exercise could be useful and "it depends" is a great place to start.

My question is, "where do you think you'll spend more time? Closer than 200 or farther than 200?" Another question is, "Daylight or Lowlight?" Next, are you going to hump this thing into a location or do you plan to just drive out to a location?

I agonized over something like this once. Didn't know which to get so I got the cheaper one which seem to fill the need that I envisioned for it but once I started using it AND liking it, I started using it everywhere and that's when the thought hit me, "I should've got the better one." Long story short, I bought the other one also and ended up giving the cheaper one to my brother. Yes, it was a rifle scope.

Both those binoculars are quality pieces of equipment so I only tell my story to stress my failure of imagination. My limited perception of need and then realizing, "Now I want to use it for everything!" Don't laugh, It happens!

So I ask again, do you envision using it more often beyond 200 yards or less than 200. Only you can answer that.

Also, the 12x would seem to have the advantage during really low light with a 4.167mm exit pupil versus the 3.73mm exit pupil on the 15x. This would be important in low to very low light conditions as the size of your own pupil changes. Things might start to look funny.

Weight is another factor, 45 ounces versus 32.1 ounces (15x versus 12x). The 12x is also physically smaller, these considerations matter if you're going to hold it freehand for any length of time without a tripod.

Answer these questions and you'll be closer to a decision than you were before. 😉

Zee

All excellent thoughts and suggestions and the answers (along with the voices) in my head, are leaning me towards the 15x binos. 

Reason being, if my answer was “less than 200”..........then I theoretically have that taken care of already with the 8/10x binos I already have. 

Not so worried about humping them around. I don’t hunt out west much anymore and any hiking around here can easily be accomplished. 

Low light isn’t an issue so much. I have toys for that. 

What I guess these should fill is a void I need filled. High power binos. I don’t have any (the 20x Steiners suck balls). I have lightweight and lower power binos filled. I have heavy and high power spotting scopes filled. 

As frustrating as the 15x might be some times, I guess I need to look at the tools I have and get the one I don’t. 

I’m not completely sold yet (got a few more bucks to save up anyway), but I think I’m strongly leaning to the 15x for now. 

As mentioned above, if I got the 12x.........I’d likely be happy. But, wish I’d gotten a little more power as I compare them to the 8/10x ones I already have. 

I appreciate all the well thought out advise. You guys rock. 

Ernie Bishop

15 is what I would choose...Late to the party 

GunNut

Zee said:

All excellent thoughts and suggestions and the answers (along with the voices) in my head, are leaning me towards the 15x binos. 

Reason being, if my answer was “less than 200”..........then I theoretically have that taken care of already with the 8/10x binos I already have. 

Not so worried about humping them around. I don’t hunt out west much anymore and any hiking around here can easily be accomplished. 

Low light isn’t an issue so much. I have toys for that. 

What I guess these should fill is a void I need filled. High power binos. I don’t have any (the 20x Steiners suck balls). I have lightweight and lower power binos filled. I have heavy and high power spotting scopes filled. 

As frustrating as the 15x might be some times, I guess I need to look at the tools I have and get the one I don’t. 

I’m not completely sold yet (got a few more bucks to save up anyway), but I think I’m strongly leaning to the 15x for now. 

As mentioned above, if I got the 12x.........I’d likely be happy. But, wish I’d gotten a little more power as I compare them to the 8/10x ones I already have. 

I appreciate all the well thought out advise. You guys rock. 

For what it’s worth, and based on this last post I believe you’re on the right track!

Japhy

Go for the larger objective lens. The increased light admitted will increase the contrast and detail.  A good test is to see the difference is with a printed page newspaper sized print at increasing distances higher magnification doesn’t always result in being able to actually read the print. Also check the quality of the image at the edges the center of the image will usually be the sharpest but quality optics will be sharp edge to edge. With higher magnification in a short folded tele keeping detail, contrast, and brightness across the image is very difficult. That is where the larger objective makes a significant difference. 

Japhy

More thoughts
looking at black and white print at a distance be sure to check there is no flaring at the image edges or color fringing which usually appears as purple shadows. black and white should appear black and white only edge to edge

Bigslug

Not any easy topic to wade through.

Much over 10X I no longer want to freehand.  Much over 42mm objectives I probably don't want to carry due to size & weight.  12x may or may not get it done for definition on bullet holes. 

A set 15x's that has TWO 56mm objectives seems almost something that should be crew-served, but I guess the trade off is it may save you from having to work to get closer to figure out what you're looking at.

And yeah, you're right about 8x.  While it's comfy to scan for long periods, it's let me down on identification at longer range - even with bitchin' HD glass.

Might be the answer is to slap the 15x on a tripod and get a quality pair of 8x30 minis to do the bulk of your fast glassing with?

zorba

Guys, we're talking about Zee here. 15X at a minimum, but I'd advise something a bit stronger for the ranges he shoots at. The Hale telescope comes to mind...

Japhy

A couple years ago I checked out a friends Canon stabilized binocs.  I believe 20X?  Optics very good and the stabilization made them as steady as 6x - 8x large bright objective. 

Zee

Bigslug said:

Not any easy topic to wade through.

Much over 10X I no longer want to freehand.  Much over 42mm objectives I probably don't want to carry due to size & weight.  12x may or may not get it done for definition on bullet holes. 

A set 15x's that has TWO 56mm objectives seems almost something that should be crew-served, but I guess the trade off is it may save you from having to work to get closer to figure out what you're looking at.

And yeah, you're right about 8x.  While it's comfy to scan for long periods, it's let me down on identification at longer range - even with bitchin' HD glass.

Might be the answer is to slap the 15x on a tripod and get a quality pair of 8x30 minis to do the bulk of your fast glassing with?

There are lots of ways to stabilize binos without a tripod. My favorite is holding the binos and the brim of my hat at the same time. Do that all the time. Combine that with resting elbows on chest and you’re golden for long periods of time. 

But, I think the combo of having my lighter/smaller Steiner 8x binos for general glassing in the ATV and the 15x available in pack or something would work. 

Don’t think I’ll jump around with both pair, though. 

Range work would be 15x and a spotting scope. 

Zee

The Steiners are handy and fit in a bellows pocket. 

And only slightly smaller but not as sharp and clear as my Leupold 10x42 BX-3 Mojave binos. 

But the BX-5 HDs smoke both of them for clarity. 

I think the natural step should be to skip the 12x and gain some magnification.