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Rifled Slugs through a Rifled Barrel?

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 24,919 Senior Member
edited March 20 in General Firearms #1
My LGS got in a used 12ga Remington 870 Express Slug Gun that was in pretty decent shape and had it listed for only $200!!
I have a ton of reduced recoil foster slug ammo from Federal and Winchester and have been looking for a slug barrel. Hell, this gun is cheaper than a barrel!
 Did a quick web search on rifled slugs through a rifled barrel and saw everything from hell no it’ll destroy your gun and lead your barrel to sure it’s even accurate. 
Got to thinking, if you can shoot lead Bullets out of a rifle or pistol barrel, why not a rifled shotgun?!?  The rifling isn’t deep at all and lead is softer than steel.......so. 
Called my Mentor and asked him. He said to go for it. So, in a moment of weakness, I put her on Lay-Away. 

When she’s out of purgatory, I guess we will find out. 

What say you guys?  Gonna work?  Bad idea?
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,278 Senior Member
    Long as the bullets fit the bore, mucho bueno.

    Shotguns get real angry with too much restriction. 

    Hopefully the wads slip fit good as well.

    The proper slugs will have more BC..
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    I’m just trying to find a way to use a plethora of foster slugged ammo. 

    Make a handy HD gun as well!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,060 Senior Member
    That would be hard to pass up!! 870's are great SG's!!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,378 Senior Member
    edited March 20 #5
    I know very little about shotguns.  The 870 is one I have used with success with slugs,  
    At a friends property, I used one just like yours with foster slugs he handed me to take a very fat sow from 75 paces.  Didn't do a necropsy like you do, but the slug went through both sides with an exit the size of my fist.  You picked up a work horse gun that will serve you well.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,938 Senior Member
    They work just fine.  I did it for years to NO ill effect through a Winchester 1300 slug gun.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    They work just fine.  I did it for years to NO ill effect through a Winchester 1300 slug gun.
    That’s good news!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,862 Senior Member
    edited March 21 #8
    I have a rifled barrel and rifled slugs are dead on point of aim at 100 yds. Of course sighting in is required.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,293 Senior Member
    Depends....I've had different results with different slug guns/slug loads...the only way to know if you have a winning combination is to shoot the damn thing...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    NN said:
    I have a rifled barrel and rifled slugs are dead on point of aim at 100 yds. Of course sighting in is required.
    More good news!  Thanks. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Depends....I've had different results with different slug guns/slug loads...the only way to know if you have a winning combination is to shoot the damn thing...
    It’ll probably be a month or so. But, I have a few ammo options. So, hope I find something that will work. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    Not gonna hurt anything, but might be a bit grubby.

    I've been a little dubious about a "rifled" slug managing much spin in a smoothbore anyway - most slugs being drag-stabilized by a hollow base or an attached base-wad of some kind.

    Definitely shoot a few, check the bore, shoot a few more, etc... to see what the leading amounts to.  As you've probably experienced, slugs can REALLY plate up the inside of a smoothbore.  I have no qualms about chucking up a cleaning rod in a drill to deal with a one of those, but with a rifled tube, you'll have to scrub it out the old fashioned way.  My Mossberg combo barrel SEEMED pretty well behaved, but as it's mostly a bird gun, I zeroed the scope on the cantilever rail, cleaned the bore, and promptly forgot I even owned it as a 2-barrel gun until I hit this thread. 

    Lead-fouling in non-shotguns is usually about poor bullet fit, alloy not matched to the load, gas blowby, and flame-cutting.  My hope would be that a rifled bore would squeeze a little harder, upset the slug a little more, and grip both slug and wadding tighter, giving a better seal to keep that gas behind the projectile.  There is no bullet lube acting as a gasket on most slugs, so it becomes all about the wad serving that function.

    I've pestered a couple of the manufacturers to see if they'd be interested in looking into the powder coating of their projectiles that a lot of home casters have been doing.  No reply as of yet, but hope I struck a nerve with somebody in R&D...
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,289 Senior Member
    I say go for it also.

    The main concern is often that lead shotgun slugs are pretty soft, most are very close to pure lead and that subjecting them to twist is gonna cause leading. Well, maybe, depends. Things like muzzle velocity and just how hard you try to push them could cause a leading issue, same as pushing soft lead bullets out of a handgun but if the lead is hard enough or the velocity is low enough there won't be much of an issue. You've already stated you'll be using low recoil (reading between the lines -- lower velocity) ammo so I don't see leading as an issue. As for accuracy, Ask the gun/ammo combo. You'll find out soon enough by trying them.
    Btw, the "rifling" on Foster type slugs doesn't help all that much for spin (the center of mass is forward so they tend to stay that way -- like a badminton birdie) but the rifling is useful for allowing those big slugs to pass through some choked barrel without damage.
    If you're so inclined, pick up some Sabot rounds for comparison. I think you'll like them.
    Looking forward to the range report. 👍
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    Great info. Thanks!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,938 Senior Member
    You have any way of lapping this bore?  Never thought about doing this but it would probably keep any leading down specially with those reduced recoil loads.  Not that I think it will be a problem at all.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Email/call Winchester, Federal, and Remington, I am sure they have tested it in a rifled barrel, I see no reason not to try it, you do have a new range backstop to shoot up, slugs will give it some character :)
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    edited March 21 #17
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Email/call Winchester, Federal, and Remington, I am sure they have tested it in a rifled barrel, I see no reason not to try it, you do have a new range backstop to shoot up, slugs will give it some character :)
    They’re gonna tell me not to do it. Because well........programmed. Kinda like asking if I can use A-Max/ELD-Match for hunting. They’re gonna say no. And that they haven’t tested it for that purpose. Then, look at their LE web and find all kinds of expansion/penetration testing. 

    Because, the box says “designed for smooth bore barrels” you obviously can’t shoot it in rifling. 😒
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    You have any way of lapping this bore?  Never thought about doing this but it would probably keep any leading down specially with those reduced recoil loads.  Not that I think it will be a problem at all.
    No. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Email/call Winchester, Federal, and Remington, I am sure they have tested it in a rifled barrel, I see no reason not to try it, you do have a new range backstop to shoot up, slugs will give it some character :)
    They’re gonna tell me not to do it. Because well........programmed. Kinda like asking if I can use A-Max/ELD-Match for hunting. They’re gonna say no. And that they haven’t tested it for that purpose. Then, look at their LE web and find all kinds of expansion/penetration testing. 

    Because, the box says “designed for smooth bore barrels” you obviously can’t shoot it in rifling. 😒
    I found this:
    https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=431075
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,938 Senior Member
    edited March 21 #20
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Zee said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Email/call Winchester, Federal, and Remington, I am sure they have tested it in a rifled barrel, I see no reason not to try it, you do have a new range backstop to shoot up, slugs will give it some character :)
    They’re gonna tell me not to do it. Because well........programmed. Kinda like asking if I can use A-Max/ELD-Match for hunting. They’re gonna say no. And that they haven’t tested it for that purpose. Then, look at their LE web and find all kinds of expansion/penetration testing. 

    Because, the box says “designed for smooth bore barrels” you obviously can’t shoot it in rifling. 😒
    I found this:
    https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=431075
    This thread you posted made me realize something.  I never shot the slugs extensively so that might be why I never experienced leading.  The 1300 was not my idea of a range gun.  It had a red dot in it and I usually shot a slug or two to confirm zero, one or two during hunting season then cleanup at end of season and put away for next year.  But I really don’t recall leading being of any concern at all.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,278 Senior Member
    If after testing. Leading is a pita. Maybe try a small bead of Lee Alox around the circumference of the slug between the edge and the hull. Dry, fire, retest.

    Realistically, how many slugs is someone going to fire for any purpose between cleanings? Maybe not enough to matter as far as leading goes? Maybe no harder to clean than the plastic fouling from the wads after a day of clays or doves???
  • minnesotashooterminnesotashooter Senior Member Posts: 790 Senior Member
    For $200 I’d have snatched that thing up in a heartbeat 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    edited March 23 #23
    First off, HOLY CRAP!!!  That’s an uncomfortable endeavor after shoulder surgery!  The pain of recoil, I can handle. The threat of undoing what has been fixed is real.  7 shots and I won’t be doing that again without a past pad from a bench. 

    Picked it up today and headed to the ranch with an assortment of cartridges. 
    I was incorrect in thinking they were reduced recoil rounds. They are full bore 2-3/4 loads.

    Some new and old Federal and Winchester. 
    Started off from the bench with the Federal. 

    That was ugly. There is a possibility that the group suffered from my shoulders shock of how really painful that was. But, I don’t typically “jerk” rounds. I’m not above a flinch periodically........but flat out shanking 3 rounds...........not normally......but that hurt!!
    Guess I got it figured out and went for 3 rounds of the Winchester. Which did considerably better. Whether it was me or the loads, we will have to revisit. 
    Groups were at 50 yards. 

    What I DO know is that I will not be bench shooting that gun without a PAST Pad again. Not in the current state of my shoulder. A .50 BMG and .338 Lapua or Win Mag don’t compare to this sucker right now. That hurt my joint. Not the exterior. 
    I fired one Winchester round standing at 25 yrds lower diamond and that wasn’t as bad. Just the bench. That’s sucked. 

    The sights will need adjustment.  I need to find a better recoil pad. And we will revisit this experiment with a PAST Pad that I have. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    The sights are rather coarse. I will likely get some Williams Fire Sights if a load proves worthy. But, a SIMS Recoil Pad is a must!!  That harder factory bad ain’t friendly to a reconstructed shoulder. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,938 Senior Member
    Old trick.  I used a sand bag between the shoulder and pad.  It works…
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Ice that shoulder, I would not want you to shoot rifled slugs at me with that setup once you adjust the sights.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    Need to edit. 
    Those groups were at 50yrds. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    edited March 23 #28
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Ice that shoulder, I would not want you to shoot rifled slugs at me with that setup once you adjust the sights.
    It’s fine now. Just hurt while shooting. 
    Like I said, it’s not the exterior smack. It’s the internal “jolt” to the joint and tendons that was on the scary side. 
    Being a longer length of pull than I need adds to the effect. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Still should ice it, 5-10 minutes on, one hour off, repeat as needed
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,981 Senior Member
    Get a Caldwell Lead Sled, put 40 lbs. of shot on it and ya wont feel a thing.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,289 Senior Member
    edited March 23 #31
    First off, that's a light weight gun to be shooting full house loads off a bench. I'm guessing around 6 pounds??? Add your shoulder and it's gonna be a long day. 🤕

    Have you considered shooting left handed. That's what I do when the soreness gets the better of me. I often fire lefty in competitions with both handguns or rifle. It's not hard with practice and I know you are more than capable. It would certainly spare your shoulder. Also, the sandbag trick will work, adding weight to the gun itself will work. Add a 90's era "Tacticool" flashlight off the barrel that'll do it 🤣🤣🤣

    Any signs of leading yet? Too bad I'm not nearby I have a truckload of reduced recoil slugs on hand and a few sabot for special occasions.

    So far the Winchester loads look promising.

    Keep us updated.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

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