Home Main Category General Firearms

Glock 17 vs Glock 43X shot side by side, range report. Surprised me...

GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
Finally got to shoot them side by side today and I really like the new 17.  Glock standard 100% reliable, no break-in needed, ate anything I fed her included full mags stuffed with randomly mixed rounds from 115 FMJs to 147 HPs.  Ran like a sewing machine without a hitch.

For the first time in my life I own a full sized 9mm/40 Glock frame that actually fits my hands and I can shoot well instinctively.  The capacity of 17+1 is very comforting to have and the magazine compatibility with the new AR pistol is a huge bonus.  From 5-7 yards head shots on an IDPA target are easy and fast.  COM is basically effortless.

BUT, being such a big gun in 9mm I expected recoil to really NOT a factor, thinking I'd be able to run it like I stole it.   SURPRISE!!!... shooting the 17 and the 43X side by side I noticed the 17 is more “jumpy” in my hands for lack of a better word!  So I kept switching back and forth to figure this out.  The 17 is a big gun and fully loaded has enough weight that it should be much softer recoiling that’s the 43X, no?

Then it dawned on me.  It must be that big ass slide.  The difference in weight between the slides is significant with the 43X slide weighing in at 13 oz and the 17 comes in at 17+ oz (tough to see in the pics I took on the scale below).  So the slide of the 17 weights as much (more?) as the whole 43X and on the 17 all that weight is on top since both frames weigh just about nothing on their own and the capacity 15 vs 17 pretty much cancels itself out.  This combined with the larger grip frame that does not allow me to get as much of my hands on the grip as I can on the 43X may just be why the 17 feels like it recoils "more", again lacking a better word.  

I'm NOT trying to put down the 17 in any way shape or form.  I really had a great time shooting it and it's a formidable weapon by ALL standards.  I'm just saying that for sheer "shootability" (which means something different to everyone), FOR ME, the 43X seems a softer shooter and easier to control specially as I push the pedal down.  Funny I NEVER thought that would be the case!  This was a huge surprise to me.









Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

Replies

  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,331 Senior Member
    Glad that Glock didn't need a break in period!


  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    JKP said:
    Glad that Glock didn't need a break in period!


    I know.... quite the surprise to me  :D

    Needed or not, it got one this morning.  I just threw it in the dishwasher with last night's dirty dinner dishes...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    Interesting.  Goes to show how subjective reactions to recoil are.  My experience being pretty much the opposite, with the 43X/48 creeping up on .40 caliber "snap" and the 17 being "Ok. . .it's a little hotter than my Ruger MKII".

    GunNut said:
     I just threw it in the dishwasher with last night's dirty dinner dishes...
    Man. . . If you're instructing, don't even joke about it, and even go so far as to caution against it.  I've serviced a Gen 3 on which I'm 99.9% certain somebody received this "helpful" tip and had been doing precisely that.  The black Parkerizing was completely gone off the silver tenifer surface treatment and the interior middle "pathway" of the firing pin safety's channel was caked to the gills with what I'm pretty sure was residue from powdered Cascade.  Impressive that there was no rust on the main pieces and it still fired, but pretty, it was not.

    Minds that haven't been around the block are often very impressionable. :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Yes recoil is highly subjective but there are physics involved too and the huge difference in mass between the slides is real so I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.  I’m just interested in different perspectives.

    And of course I’m joking about the dishwasher.  I just sloshed the gun around in a muddy rain puddle on the way out of the range 🤣🤣🤣
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    Science!

    “Objects in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by equal or greater force.”

    Beat that truth and get back to me. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Science!

    “Objects in motion will remain in motion until acted upon by equal or greater force.”

    Beat that truth and get back to me. 
    I get that and I intend to.  I need more time on the 17 of course 😁
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    You’ve become quite the Glock-ite. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    You’ve become quite the Glock-ite. 
    Your fault... 😁
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    You’ve become quite the Glock-ite. 
    Your fault... 😁
    No remorse. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    Only results count. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 99 Member
    The spring constant (K) as well as the distance the spring compresses (X) both matter. Force = -KX. That determines how fast the slide accelerates which is what is felt


  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,849 Senior Member
    You guys clean your Glocks?
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • Bears4deblife89Bears4deblife89 Posts: 5 New Member
    GunNut said: 
    Yes recoil is highly subjective but there are physics involved too and the huge difference in mass between the slides is real so I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.  I’m just interested in different perspectives.

    And of course I’m joking about the dishwasher.  I just sloshed the gun around in a muddy rain puddle on the way out of the range 🤣🤣🤣 

    how does the difference of mass between the slides effect recoil? 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,919 Senior Member
    You guys clean your Glocks?
    When I remember. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    GunNut said:
    Zee said:
    You’ve become quite the Glock-ite. 
    Your fault... 😁
    No remorse. 
    Zee said:
    Only results count. 
    Agreed on both counts.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Japhy said:
    The spring constant (K) as well as the distance the spring compresses (X) both matter. Force = -KX. That determines how fast the slide accelerates which is what is felt


    Physics was never my strongest class.  What does that mean in the context of this thread?
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    You guys clean your Glocks?
    Zee said:
    You guys clean your Glocks?
    When I remember. 
    I pull the slide off and wipe/scrape the old dirty grease and apply new grease at times...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,645 Senior Member
    E, look for high speed footage of semiauto handguns being fired. You'll see that the VAST majority of the recoil happens when the slide comes to an ABRUPT halt at the end of its travel.

    Happens in ARs as well. I greatly reduced the felt recoil in my 16" 300BO when I put and adjustable gas block on it, and slowed the BCG/Buffer down to the point it wasn't slamming into the end of the buffer tube as quickly.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,645 Senior Member
    The first 20 seconds of this video shows it well

    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,645 Senior Member
    edited March 27 #21
    To add a little physics into it.
    With the 147gr loads, I'm guessing ~6gr powder charge so you're launching ~153grs of mass out the barrel. It has now exerted all the force it can on the handgun. It set that approx 7,500gr (since you said it was "17oz+") slide into motion at a fairly rapid pace. Then that slide, which is over 49 times heavier than what came out the muzzle, comes to an immediate stop at the end of its travel, transferring its energy to the frame, which in turn transfers its energy to your hand/wrist/arm
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    GunNut said:

    And of course I’m joking about the dishwasher.  I just sloshed the gun around in a muddy rain puddle on the way out of the range 🤣🤣🤣
    Cute.  When Mikhail Kalashnikov died a few years back, the consensus was to just toss him in a muddy pit for a couple days, and he'd be fine.   :D

    I'm actually kinda looking forward to is to see what, if anything, breaks on or makes the Gen 5's fail with any kind of consistency.   I may not live that long.They got rid of or improved all the stuff that turned into a weakness only when they started pounding on it with the .40 S&W, and they ditched a couple of single stress point springs in favor of more durable inline coils.  The new 9mm's should then be pretty much unstoppable.  They also had the good sense to fatten up the slides on the Gen 5 .40's to about the same mass as the 10mm and .45's.  Sorry, your old holster won't fit them, but hopefully we'll see significant durability perks amongst those still running that round.  

    I razz on the .40 a lot, but I guess I have to pay it kind of a backhanded complement here:  It did serve to put stress on 9mm platform guns in the way only dropping a Hemi into a Honda can, and it showed weaknesses in those platforms that would have otherwise only ever been seen in situations so extreme they probably wouldn't be taken seriously as a regular concern.  It ultimately made the good 9mm guns better.  Can't complain about that.

    About the only "Achilles Heel" I see remaining in the Glock is the potential for improper field-strip-level cleaning by the end-user - - specifically, getting solvents and oils inside the firing pin channel where they can mix with carbon or dry up, turning into something resembling either sludgy black toothpaste or Vaseline.  The striker assembly amounts to a pretty snug fitting piston-in-cylinder.  You can't get reliable ignition if your firing pin is trying to swim forward through what amounts to Elmer's Glue. Fortunately, that level of nasty takes REAL dedication.  I've only ever seen a couple that bad, and never on a work gun.

    We talked about it a little bit - I think when Gun Nut first began his love affair with the Glock 48. . .The new field for destruction testing is probably going to be within the recent crop of mini-9mms.  They're such a good idea that folks are going to start using them as primaries in place of the classic full-size and their cut-down versions (i.e. Glock 19 / Sig P229) and will be racking up high round counts.

    Kind of disturbing - I'm now old enough to say that I've seen the process of evolution working. :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    E, look for high speed footage of semiauto handguns being fired. You'll see that the VAST majority of the recoil happens when the slide comes to an ABRUPT halt at the end of its travel.

    Happens in ARs as well. I greatly reduced the felt recoil in my 16" 300BO when I put and adjustable gas block on it, and slowed the BCG/Buffer down to the point it wasn't slamming into the end of the buffer tube as quickly.
    See now that's starting to make sense.  The 17 has about what? 40% more mass slamming all the way back?
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,645 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    See now that's starting to make sense.  The 17 has about what? 40% more mass slamming all the way back?

    You're an intelligent fella with both slides in hand, a scale and I have no doubt a calculator, on your beloved iPhone. So I'll leave it to you to figure out :p 
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,331 Senior Member
    My observation is the opposite - the 43x is a bit snappy while the 17 shoots like a full size polymer pistol...
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    JKP said:
    My observation is the opposite - the 43x is a bit snappy while the 17 shoots like a full size polymer pistol...
    I wasn’t referring to snappy.  A fast slide cycle is no big deal, I can deal with that with no issues.  The 43X is snappy but there is what feels like very little momentum on that itty bitty slide, just a super quick back and forth movement.   

    The only gun that felt that way to me was the old HK P7 (PSP).  Just a fast back and forth but felt like very little recoil.  That was probably the fastest gun I’ve ever shot to return back to a good sight picture from recoil.  It literally felt like it was just pushing straight back into my hand, very little upwards flip.  I guess I’m just not used to the huge hunk of steel coming back at me with no weight on the frame to compensate for it.  It’s really the first time I’ve noticed it because I’ve never shot a full sized Glock side by side with one of the smaller guns.  Probably also why I never fell in love with the 34 now that I think about it.

    It’s not objectionable, I’ll get over it because of the guns many other positives, already working on it and improving my follow up.  This is just an observation and a comment that at least in my perception the bigger gun is NOT the “softer” shooting one which came as a surprise to me.  I would love to see the 43X in the hands of someone that can really shoot like Zee and see how fast he can run the damn thing.  I think it might even surprise him.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,289 Senior Member
    Just use a slightly heavier spring on the 17. Slow that mass down a little more before it slams to a halt at the rear "frame end" of the cycle and it'll make a difference in felt recoil. Snappy becomes pushy and pushy feel mo betta.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Just use a slightly heavier spring on the 17. Slow that mass down a little more before it slams to a halt at the rear "frame end" of the cycle and it'll make a difference in felt recoil. Snappy becomes pushy and pushy feel mo betta.
    I might go that route.  I won't make any changes until I have more trigger time.  I also feel like a good trigger job is in order first, 3.5 Ghost Connector and polish.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,289 Senior Member
    edited March 28 #29
    Btw, the dual spring assembly on the 43 helps. Most springs are linear over a short range of compression but a dual spring system is non-linear. It allows for greater spring resistance at the end of rearward slide travel where you need it the most (kinda like those extra leaf springs some trucks have to keep from bottoming out). This slows the slide down right at the end so you don't feel as much recoil impulse as you would with a straight linear spring set-up.
    I have my own 1911 set up this way. It makes factory ball feel like dumbed down "Cheater" loads.
    When your own 43 starts banging you up, it might be time for a spring change.
    Anyway, hope you get to do some more practice/research and keep us posted. 👍
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,849 Senior Member
    edited April 5 #30
    It may seem counterintuitive, but I'll think you'll actually find your Glock to be a smoother shooter with a LIGHTER recoil spring.

    Stock on the 9mm Glocks is a 15# spring. I use a 13# spring in my G34 and it's noticeably softer. How noticeable? Enough that I notice. Whether it's worth the expense or not is up to you.

    The big downside is you have to use an aftermarket assembly, and I have had the occasional incident of my loctite'd assembly working loose. Haven't quite cracked the nut on that.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,937 Senior Member
    I installed the new Ghost Connector and greased all the appropriate points and I did much better with the gun today.  It still feels like it bangs the hand “harder’ than the 43X but all in all easier to shoot well.  I’ll probably leave it be for a while and see how it develops.  It’s not objectionable, it really just surprised me that it feels this way and that the 43X feels like a softer recoiling gun to me!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement