defense against those armed with release-fire weapons

DiamondDoug

Such weapons could be drawn longbows or shotguns with "release" triggers. These weapons fire by the operator's releasing pressure from certain parts rather than applying pressure to fire. My concern is if the bad guy has you in his sights with any of these weapons, you could still get shot even if you hit him first with your bullet. I'm no expert in human physiology, but do muscles in the hands relax when the human body is shot with a gun or do they tense up? If the threat target archer is shot with his arrow drawn upon you, might his hand drawing the bow string relax and let the arrow fly still?

What is a good defense strategy against a bad guy with a drawn longbow if you have a gun? American cavalrymen who fought armed Indians in wars past might be experts on these sorts of things. Should the person with the gun try to cut the longbow in two with his bullet or shot charge to hopefully relieve string tension so the arrow doesn't fly at you?

earlyagain

Marbles. 

Keep a big bag full by the door. Empty the bag across the floor. No one can draw a bow and dance at the same time.

Don't practice though.
Or you might lose your marbles......

GunNut

Longbow?!?!?!  Damn....

DiamondDoug

earlyagain said:

Marbles. 

Keep a big bag full by the door. Empty the bag across the floor. No one can draw a bow and dance at the same time.

Don't practice though.
Or you might lose your marbles......

Years ago, my father, a veteran, suggested that a perp pointing a weapon be shot in the stomach to cause him to instantly point his weapon toward the ground because a belly wound should cause the human body to quickly double up. If he does get a shot off still, it's then likely to head downward toward your feet. You can survive a foot injury. I'm wondering if this technique works just as well with bad guys armed with drawn bows.

DiamondDoug

GunNut said:

Longbow?!?!?!  Damn....

Do they teach these sorts of things in self-defense firearms classes? How should you then aim and fire at a bad guy with a bead on you at close range regardless of the weapon type? What are some tactics to employ to reduce the risk of your becoming a casualty? Remember, a decapitated head fresh off a rattlesnake can still bite and kill.

Jayhawker

Stop....please stop

DiamondDoug

Jayhawker said:

Stop....please stop

What good is this joint if folks can't ask serious questions? Do I need a paid membership here to garner respect?

All you gun websites seem to be the same. Hostile toward non-paying newcomers. It makes me wonder if you all are under one corporate owner in Russia somewhere.

sakodude

We're still waiting for a serious question.

DiamondDoug

sakodude said:

We're still waiting for a serious question.

Ok, how do I protect myself when someone is unlawfully pointing a weapon at me? Do I just shoot and pray?

Zee

DiamondDoug

Never mind, I should just take a civilian firearms self-defense course and ask such questions to instructors there. I've had rifle (BRM) training and qualification in the army but no pistol training, police shotgun training or carbine training. I was trained TAKE COVER and/or lay down suppressive fire as soon as a close threat was recognized. I've also fired machine guns in the army: a 50 and a 60.

Varmintmist

They had pretty much done away with the 60 cals when I was in.

GunNut

Varmintmist said:

They had pretty much done away with the 60 cals when I was in.

🤣

Zee

DiamondDoug said:

GunNut said:

Longbow?!?!?!  Damn....

Do they teach these sorts of things in self-defense firearms classes? How should you then aim and fire at a bad guy with a bead on you at close range regardless of the weapon type? What are some tactics to employ to reduce the risk of your becoming a casualty? Remember, a decapitated head fresh off a rattlesnake can still bite and kill.

Move. 

breamfisher

Zee said:

DiamondDoug said:

GunNut said:

Longbow?!?!?!  Damn....

Do they teach these sorts of things in self-defense firearms classes? How should you then aim and fire at a bad guy with a bead on you at close range regardless of the weapon type? What are some tactics to employ to reduce the risk of your becoming a casualty? Remember, a decapitated head fresh off a rattlesnake can still bite and kill.

Move. 

How far?  Can I stay in the same zip code, or should I go to another state?

Zee

DiamondDoug said:

earlyagain said:

Marbles. 

Keep a big bag full by the door. Empty the bag across the floor. No one can draw a bow and dance at the same time.

Don't practice though.
Or you might lose your marbles......

Years ago, my father, a veteran, suggested that a perp pointing a weapon be shot in the stomach to cause him to instantly point his weapon toward the ground because a belly wound should cause the human body to quickly double up. If he does get a shot off still, it's then likely to head downward toward your feet. You can survive a foot injury. I'm wondering if this technique works just as well with bad guys armed with drawn bows.

Why not just shoot them center mass to stop the threat?  Why intentionally wound and therefore prolong the possibility of them being a threat?

Jayhawker

DiamondDoug said:

Never mind, I should just take a civilian firearms self-defense course and ask such questions to instructors there. 

Literally, the most intelligent thing you have said .....however, be advised, you will most likely be " that guy"in class...because there's always "that guy" in class...

bullsi1911

To answer your question seriously, you don’t “Draw From the Drop”.  If someone has you at gun-point or.... long bow point... you don’t draw down on them.  Practice ‘Purposeful Compliance’ and wait your turn.

Think about it this way- human performance reaction time to a visual stimulus is about 1/4 of a second.  You CAN’T draw a gun that fast, get on target and fire.  Feign compliance until the attention is off you and then do what you can- move, draw, and fire.   If the aggressor looks away, you may have as much as 2 seconds (which is a do-able time for a concealed draw) to get your shot off.  It would be better to deflect the gun... or... bow.... away from you while you move and draw.  

Homework- go to youtube and watch ‘Active Self Protection’ videos.  These are real-world self defense encounters that are then broken down with lessons learned.  Bonus points if you see any competition shotguns or longbows

Jayhawker

Ok...THIS is how you defend yourself against someone shooting arrows at you
https://youtu.be/XTi-Y9KNNqk

PFD

DiamondDoug said:

Should the person with the gun try to cut the longbow in two with his bullet or shot charge to hopefully relieve string tension so the arrow doesn't fly at you?

That's what I would do.

Unless the arrow was in flight, then I'd shoot it first.

Spk

DiamondDoug said:

Never mind, I should just take a civilian firearms self-defense course and ask such questions to instructors there. I've had rifle (BRM) training and qualification in the army but no pistol training, police shotgun training or carbine training. I was trained TAKE COVER and/or lay down suppressive fire as soon as a close threat was recognized. I've also fired machine guns in the army: a 50 and a 60.

The problem Doug is that your questions are not very well framed or just downright outlandish. In fact, they're incredibly vague to the point that they're nearly impossible to answer correctly. What you're lacking is details, otherwise, about the only correct answer is "Depends." As in depends on the circumstances.

For example, a bad guy at 50 feet has you in his sights in the middle of a flat, barren desert, as far as the eye can see, what do you do? Comply, negotiate, make yourself either valuable (don't kill me I'm really rich, I can make you rich) or human to him (so he pities you) and wait for an opening to fight or flight. Say what you need to say to stay alive until he's distracted.

Okay, same situation in a convenience store with lots of other people around at 10 feet. Comply then look for the opening to fight or flight.

One thing your not gonna do is out draw this guy if you're someone with little or no handgun experience, you're not John Wick, Jason Bourne or Jack Reacher. It's not gonna happen.

Another thing you're not gonna do is lay down suppressing fire. First, you don't have a M2 .50 cal or an M60 machine gun, you have a handgun with limited ammo. Second, if you're in a crowded space (i.e. the convenience store) every "sprayed shot" could kill an innocent bystander. So if you survive the encounter, you'll most likely do some serious time behind bars.

In the military, when you're in a theater of war (a hot zone) you're often their at the request of the Host nation and if something bad happens (like a civilian gets shot) during the lawful performance of your official duties -- you're protected from criminal wrong doing. As a U.S. citizen, raising a weapon against another U.S. citizen for whatever reason, well you better have a dang good reason.

The first thing you should look up are the lethal force laws in your state and county and most certainly take a Firearms course.

Most folks on this forum are well aware of these incredibly important laws and some happen to be prior or current Military or Law Enforcement. It really does sound like you're not up to speed with your state and local laws.

Good luck Doug. I really do hope you look into a Firearms course.

DiamondDoug

Varmintmist said:

They had pretty much done away with the 60 cals when I was in.

60 = M60, 7.62 NATO

50 = M2, .50 cal BMG (Browning Machine Gun)

Varmintmist

Since we were contemplating combat with longbows, I figured you were talking fusil de chasse

DiamondDoug

Spk said:

DiamondDoug said:

Never mind, I should just take a civilian firearms self-defense course and ask such questions to instructors there. I've had rifle (BRM) training and qualification in the army but no pistol training, police shotgun training or carbine training. I was trained TAKE COVER and/or lay down suppressive fire as soon as a close threat was recognized. I've also fired machine guns in the army: a 50 and a 60.

The problem Doug is that your questions are not very well framed or just downright outlandish. In fact, they're incredibly vague to the point that they're nearly impossible to answer correctly. What you're lacking is details, otherwise, about the only correct answer is "Depends." As in depends on the circumstances.

For example, a bad guy at 50 feet has you in his sights in the middle of a flat, barren desert, as far as the eye can see, what do you do? Comply, negotiate, make yourself either valuable (don't kill me I'm really rich, I can make you rich) or human to him (so he pities you) and wait for an opening to fight or flight. Say what you need to say to stay alive until he's distracted.

Okay, same situation in a convenience store with lots of other people around at 10 feet. Comply then look for the opening to fight or flight.

One thing your not gonna do is out draw this guy if you're someone with little or no handgun experience, you're not John Wick, Jason Bourne or Jack Reacher. It's not gonna happen.

Another thing you're not gonna do is lay down suppressing fire. First, you don't have a M2 .50 cal or an M60 machine gun, you have a handgun with limited ammo. Second, if you're in a crowded space (i.e. the convenience store) every "sprayed shot" could kill an innocent bystander. So if you survive the encounter, you'll most likely do some serious time behind bars.

In the military, when you're in a theater of war (a hot zone) you're often their at the request of the Host nation and if something bad happens (like a civilian gets shot) during the lawful performance of your official duties -- you're protected from criminal wrong doing. As a U.S. citizen, raising a weapon against another U.S. citizen for whatever reason, well you better have a dang good reason.

The first thing you should look up are the lethal force laws in your state and county and most certainly take a Firearms course.

Most folks on this forum are well aware of these incredibly important laws and some happen to be prior or current Military or Law Enforcement. It really does sound like you're not up to speed with your state and local laws.

Good luck Doug. I really do hope you look into a Firearms course.

Ok, what might you do if you suddenly spotted a man armed with a bow had an arrow drawn on you at 25 yards in the woods? Assume you have a handgun in a waist pack.

My question was simple: if a person with a drawn arrow is shot with a bullet, perhaps in the head, is he still likely to release the arrow? How might the human body with a drawn bow in hand respond when shot with a bullet?

A LE officer reading this here may have a situation someday with a suspect's drawn arrow on an innocent person and need to know what to do to save the innocent person. The officer may shoot and kill the suspect but the arrow may still be discharged lethally from the dead archer's hand depending on how human physiology (hand muscles) works in that scenario. An arrow is normally fired by relaxing/extending the fingers holding the drawn bow string. A gun is normally fired by tensing the muscles of the trigger finger. Things like this may or may not have been covered in police academies.

I think it's important to understand about how motor control works in some dangerous situations.

Linefinder

Sorry, guys, but we can allow this type of silliness go on for only so long.

Mike

Zee

Linefinder said:

Sorry, guys, but we can allow this type of silliness go on for only so long.

Mike

Zee

Jayhawker

Thank you...I was about to do it myself...

earlyagain

I warned him about losing his marbles.........

Bigslug

Well, he's undoubtedly still reading anyway, so here:



If you're worried about incoming fire from medieval projectile weapons. . .

I mean, sheesh!  I am the only guy that studies this stuff? 

Varmintmist

But what if he has a bodkin point on that arrow in the woods at 25 yards away aimed at you?