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Some anti-gun people you just can't understand.

GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
My mother was a McGovern Democrat. In 1972 I was age 8.

Fifteen years after the 1972 election, 1987, I once claimed to her that I had gotten into trouble a few years earlier (slacking off on college school work, accidents, traffic tickets) because I had a car available to drive for the first time in my life at age 19. A new 1983 Camaro. I had more freedom than I could really handle by getting those wheels. She said that the car didn't twist my arm to make me do those things. It wasn't the car's fault for my shortcomings. I had dropped out of college in 1984, had two low-income jobs and went into the army in 1988.

Three years later, 1990, I argued with her about gun control over the telephone while away with the miltray. She had voted fo DiFi and Boxer in Commiefornia. I said they were both anti-gun but she said who cares if they are anti-gun since they were such "good senators". My mother, bless her, did admit that the Second Amendment was made to weaken the government but she said that people had no business with "assault weapons". "Normal guns" were one thing but "machine guns" were something else she said. She had no idea what "semi-automatic" and "fully automatic" meant. She actually owned two guns for home security and protection while driving about. My father had gotten those guns and passed away nine years earlier. She said that she might as well keep them since they were inherited. One was a Smith .38 Special and the other was a Beretta Minx .22 pistol which was semi-automatic but those guns were still "normal" to my mom. If the gun looked "like something that belonged on a battlefield" to mom's eyes, civilians had no business with it according to her. This went for AR-15s. Mom had stated that she would shoot through the bedroom door if somebody tried to force it open.

I insisted that guns don't kill people and she said I was illogical for saying that. She said of course guns "kill people" like Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King.

You see, it wasn't the car's fault for my personal errors but it's always the gun's fault whenever somebody gets shot. Go figure.



Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!

Replies

  • AlleyCatAlleyCat Posts: 470 Member
    edited April 30 #2
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,252 Senior Member
    I read about this past program in one of my periodicals yesterday.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/lawman-mustang-boss-429-pacific/amp/

    Your car anology reminded me of it. I had heard stories about service men wrecking their new muscle cars after purchase upon return to civilian life, but had no idea of the magnitude.

    Guns and a free society are easy scapegoats in a storm of social ills. As long as we have the rights of freedom.
     We'll have to struggle to keep them.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,892 Senior Member
    I do not understand ANY anti-gun people.  It is irrational to be anti-guns and usually born out of a mix of cultural background, ignorance and emotions rather than facts and logic.  It's basically a foreign language to me and I find the more staunch a person is on this belief the more unwilling they are to be openminded and educated about anything at all.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 1 #5
    GunNut said:
    I do not understand ANY anti-gun people.  It is irrational to be anti-guns and usually born out of a mix of cultural background, ignorance and emotions rather than facts and logic.  It's basically a foreign language to me and I find the more staunch a person is on this belief the more unwilling they are to be openminded and educated about anything at all.

    I think it largely has to do with party affiliation, maybe. My mother used to praise the Democrats as the party of the poor, small business (protecting the little guy), the ecology, civil rights, women's rights, animal welfare, education, science and health. The gun rights issue was a back burner issue. My mother would put Greenpeace and Ecology Now bumper stickers on her car. Democrat voters largely put much less importance on protecting the Second Amendment and politicians use this as an advantage. It was no big deal to my mother that DiFi and Boxer were in favor of banning AR-15-type firearms. She would just look at such a black rifle and say that is not for civilians. A bolt-action or lever-action rifle with a wood stock, a shotgun with a  wooden stock, a revolver with a wooden handle and a little purse pistol were "normal" guns to her. I know that a black rifle is no more deadly or evil than grandpa's deer rifle with a pretty checkered wood stock. My mother didn't like hunting also.

    As for me, I've always voted GOP and preferably for pro-gun candidates.

    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 1 #6
    I read about this past program in one of my periodicals yesterday.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/lawman-mustang-boss-429-pacific/amp/

    Your car anology reminded me of it. I had heard stories about service men wrecking their new muscle cars after purchase upon return to civilian life, but had no idea of the magnitude.

    Guns and a free society are easy scapegoats in a storm of social ills. As long as we have the rights of freedom.
     We'll have to struggle to keep them.

    Freedom is not always free, cheap or safe. The American Way certainly comes with a price. Did many Americans fight and die only to have a Leftist tyranny take away the Bill of Rights from the American People? Gun control is a desecration to each and every one of these graves.

    Thousands of American military graves lie forgotten and lost abroad  PBS  NewsHour

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin



    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 1 #7
    AlleyCat said:
    Zee said:

    :D


    Huh? What are you talking about? Pray tell me please. :*:neutral:
    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 394 Member
    AlleyCat said:
    Zee said:

    :D


    Huh? What are you talking about? 
    It's a euphemism.  Kind of like saying "That Guy" - meaning the one who feels the need to promote certain values or opinions in a 'mansplaining' manner to a group of individuals who, by the very nature of their involvement on a forum such as this one, probably don't need to be convinced or explained to about the relative merits of the Second Amendment or any of the other protections provided to citizens of the USA by the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.

    So take no offense.

    What we really need and crave on this forum is to be able to glean valuable knowledge from persons who have obtained any superior knowledge that we individually lack.

    What can you tell us about the .270 Winchester?  I'm still on the fence about that one...

    (and some of us are always on the look out for recommendations of good Gladiator Movies)
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 1 #9
    Some_Mook said:
    AlleyCat said:
    Zee said:

    :D


    Huh? What are you talking about? 
    It's a euphemism.  Kind of like saying "That Guy" - meaning the one who feels the need to promote certain values or opinions in a 'mansplaining' manner to a group of individuals who, by the very nature of their involvement on a forum such as this one, probably don't need to be convinced or explained to about the relative merits of the Second Amendment or any of the other protections provided to citizens of the USA by the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.

    So take no offense.

    What we really need and crave on this forum is to be able to glean valuable knowledge from persons who have obtained any superior knowledge that we individually lack.

    What can you tell us about the .270 Winchester?  I'm still on the fence about that one...

    (and some of us are always on the look out for recommendations of good Gladiator Movies)
    What I need to learn here is how to beat the anti-gunners in any argument for gun rights.I know most here understand WHY the 2nd A needs to be protected and argued for. But what weapons do we have against the antis?

    All I can say about the .270 Winchester is that it is an American center-fire rifle cartridge that many American deer hunters like. I'm sure it will lead to a lot of venison in the freezer as will several other cartridges. It may kick more than some but not as bad others. I've never owned a gun in that chambering nor have I fired this cartridge so I can't speak to as how hard it is on the firing shoulder.

    I can't recommend any good gladiator pictures because that's not a following I'm a part of.

    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,283 Senior Member
    Some_Mook said:
    AlleyCat said:
    Zee said:

    :D


    Huh? What are you talking about? 
    It's a euphemism.  Kind of like saying "That Guy" - meaning the one who feels the need to promote certain values or opinions in a 'mansplaining' manner to a group of individuals who, by the very nature of their involvement on a forum such as this one, probably don't need to be convinced or explained to about the relative merits of the Second Amendment or any of the other protections provided to citizens of the USA by the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.

    So take no offense.

    What we really need and crave on this forum is to be able to glean valuable knowledge from persons who have obtained any superior knowledge that we individually lack.

    What can you tell us about the .270 Winchester?  I'm still on the fence about that one...

    (and some of us are always on the look out for recommendations of good Gladiator Movies)
    What I need to learn here is how to beat the anti-gunners in any argument for gun rights.I know most here understand WHY the 2nd A needs to be protected and argued for. But what weapons do we have against the antis?

    Trying to beat a rabid anti-gunner in an argument is like wrestling with a pig...you both get all dirty and the pig likes it...
    Short story...it's generally a pointless endeavor..they have their mind made up and you're unlikely to change it...

    I have known some formerly anti-gun folks who decided that they needed to learn to protect themselves, but they made that decision...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,252 Senior Member
    The symbolism of a bureaucracy of presumptive and assumptive elites that are frightened and distrustful of the people they are elected and sworn to serve should be a simple thing to illustrate with imagery. The most powerful medium of influence in our time. 

    There's been a glaring void of this simple tactic for along time IMO..
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 6,892 Senior Member
    Some_Mook said:
    AlleyCat said:
    Zee said:

    :D


    Huh? What are you talking about? 
    It's a euphemism.  Kind of like saying "That Guy" - meaning the one who feels the need to promote certain values or opinions in a 'mansplaining' manner to a group of individuals who, by the very nature of their involvement on a forum such as this one, probably don't need to be convinced or explained to about the relative merits of the Second Amendment or any of the other protections provided to citizens of the USA by the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.

    So take no offense.

    What we really need and crave on this forum is to be able to glean valuable knowledge from persons who have obtained any superior knowledge that we individually lack.

    What can you tell us about the .270 Winchester?  I'm still on the fence about that one...

    (and some of us are always on the look out for recommendations of good Gladiator Movies)
    What I need to learn here is how to beat the anti-gunners in any argument for gun rights.I know most here understand WHY the 2nd A needs to be protected and argued for. But what weapons do we have against the antis?

    All I can say about the .270 Winchester is that it is an American center-fire rifle cartridge that many American deer hunters like. I'm sure it will lead to a lot of venison in the freezer as will several other cartridges. It may kick more than some but not as bad others. I've never owned a gun in that chambering nor have I fired this cartridge so I can't speak to as how hard it is on the firing shoulder.

    I can't recommend any good gladiator pictures because that's not a following I'm a part of.

    I’ve had the pleasure of converting a LOT of anti gunners to our side, including my wife decades ago.  NONE of them because I “beat them” in an argument.  ALL of them were swayed by education and logic.  You can lead them all to water but you truly can’t make them drink.  That is their personal decision.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 2 #13
    The trouble is many people vote Democrat who might not be strong anti-gunners per se. They vote Demo for other reasons. Protecting gun rights doesn't seem important to them. Social services and unionization does. The Demos in power want to take guns away to strengthen the gubmint and weaken the American People. They want YOU dependent upon the GUBMINT for "protection". It's all part of the socialist welfare state master plan. This is why the GOP has lost control of TWH and Capitol Hill. Too many voters last November didn't care about gun rights. The only weapon they (and WE) may have left to hold the Left at bay is the filibuster and Trump-appointed SCOTUS judges. I cared and voted Trump last November.
    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 394 Member
    Before this thread becomes too deep a rabbit hole ("What I need to learn here is how to beat the anti-gunners in any argument for gun rights."  / "The trouble is many people vote Democrat") let me offer an alternative to trying to "win any argument".

    Offer an alternative action to the person(s) whose methods you disagree with, rather than try to convince them that their belief is wrong, and as a result they are wrong and you are right.

    There are people in this country who believe that they face a threat from rampant violence and they want to take steps to reduce that threat.

    There is nothing wrong with not wanting to face violence, it is just the most commonly espoused method by the left toward achieving that goal is ill-conceived and intrusive on certain rights protected by the Constitution.

    Offer an alternative toward reducing violence that makes more sense than banning certain devices based on them having a scary appearance.

    Do some research on the number of persons who are arrested for prohibited actions, such as possession of a weapon, drugs or abusing domestic partners or children, who are then never seriously prosecuted for those offenses and are allowed by default to continue on their merry way, creating additional havoc and mayhem.

    Could not a rational argument be made that, using Laws already in existence, a reduction in violence could be obtained should the will-power and resources to enforce those Laws be found?

    Could early education be used as a resource to instill good societal values, respect for peers and authority and reduce the alienation many youths face, and offer alternative non-violent methods to deal with conflict?

    Could more be done to encourage people to get involved in identifying persons with drug / alcohol dependency, severe depression or possible mental illness, and more be done to provide compassionate support and help for those individuals?

    Could more be done to provide the disadvantaged / impoverished / hopeless people with opportunities for useful education, skills and jobs?

    If you disagree with someone's method (prohibit possession of firearms by law-abiding people), but do agree in principle with their end goal (reduce violence), look for a workable, reasonable, rational alternative method that you both can agree on.

    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 2 #15
    Yes, Demo voters and pro-gun voters both don't want to become a victim of violent acts. There's our common ground. I get a sense that some of these non-gun-rights-supporting people, younger ones especially, falsely feel their smartphone will always "save" them in times of danger.

    If a large rabid dog starts to charge you on the street in your neighborhood while you are out for a stroll, how long will it take between pulling out your phone and the arrival of police to stop the dog? How long will it take you to pull your handgun out to stop the dog in comparison?
    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • GermanShepherdGermanShepherd Posts: 61 Member
    edited May 4 #16

    Shepherds in Germany? WOOF!!!!
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 394 Member
    ...falsely feel their smartphone will always "save" them in times of danger...

    Didn't really hear too many stories of people falling off of cliffs while taking selfies before the Smart Phone came along.  Too many needless deaths from people misusing the things.  Probable ought to be a law of two somewhere governing their use.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
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