Plastic frame fad

amtilton17amtilton17 MemberPosts: 54 Member
Hey guys,

Considering the current trend of the polymer frame taking over the self defense market, I was wondering if any firearm manufacturer still makes an entry level handgun with a metal frame? I know Sig still offers there trademark metal frame firearms and, of course, there are the all popular 1911s, but both of those guns cost over $600 for the most basic model. Are there any for around $300-500?

Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,939 Senior Member
    Springfield Mil Spec & GI. Rock Island Arsenal 1911's. CZ-75. Revolvers.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,887 Senior Member
    Entry level handgun, is that like a starter home?
    Buy reputable and be happy.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    65% of LE rely on the plastic fad starter: Glock. I'm willing to bet that a large number of the remaining 35% also bought into the same plastic fad with other makes like XD, S&W, Ruger, etc. Why the aversion?

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • CaptainRoadBlockCaptainRoadBlock Member Posts: 49 Member
    Just my two cents, but I have no aversion to plastic, although I know a few old time police officers that refer to them as "Tactical Tupperware". The above advise from NN rings true; buy from a reliable source and maker and be happy with it.
    So Officer, why did you shoot my client 8 times? Uh, the magazine ran dry.
  • joseph06joseph06 Member Posts: 133 Member
    The CZ-75 should be in that range, and is a great all steel gun. Mine is very accurate, easy to shoot, and not too big for my small-ish hands to get a good grip on.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,660 Senior Member
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • amtilton17amtilton17 Member Posts: 54 Member
    mythaeus wrote: »
    65% of LE rely on the plastic fad starter: Glock. I'm willing to bet that a large number of the remaining 35% also bought into the same plastic fad with other makes like XD, S&W, Ruger, etc. Why the aversion?

    Al

    It's not an aversion. I just like the look and feel of a steel framed handgun over the plastic. I know the plastic frames have proven their reliability, it's just a preference.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,465 Senior Member
    There are plenty of revolvers that are all steel. A vast majority, even, and many of them are excellent for PD.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Plenty of all steel handguns.

    I don't really care all that much for polymer either.. I carry a Kahr K9 but the wife has a Kahr CW9 and I aint got no problem carrying it.. just a bit more felt recoil but it aint enough the wife wont shoot a box or two at the range.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    32ColtPolicePositivebmp-1.jpg

    I remember the first time I saw one of these, it was a must have for Me at the time, a nice toy, the one I got however was in pristine condition.

    Colt Police Positive .32 cal.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    I wouldn't exactly call it a "fad" like the hula hoop. Polymer frames are here to stay. They're cheaper to manufacture, lighter weight, and work just fine. Makes no real diff if you personally don't care much for them.

    Nothing is quite as sweet as a 1911 of course. But I'm okay with polymer pistols too. My Glock, XD, and XDM are all fine shooters.

    Answer to your question, however, I'd consider the Springfield Mil Spec 1911, and cheaper still their GI model. And I'm sure there are plenty other choices.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    One benefit of the steel-frame handgun is in the separate grip panels - don't like the look/feel/size/material? You got options.

    With the plastic frames, either you like it or you don't - outside of slip on grips by Hogue or Pachmayr, or the few (and increasing) number that come with interchangable, different-shape backstraps. Variety, personalization, and tinkering favors the steel-frame (or aluminum-frame) pistol, but I will concede the plastic does make for a durable, simple workhorse.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,096 Senior Member
    amtilton17 wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    Considering the current trend of the polymer frame taking over the self defense market, I was wondering if any firearm manufacturer still makes an entry level handgun with a metal frame? I know Sig still offers there trademark metal frame firearms and, of course, there are the all popular 1911s, but both of those guns cost over $600 for the most basic model. Are there any for around $300-500?

    I would not consider constant production of polymer frame piostols since basically 1970 a "trend" or a "fad". Those words indicate they might go away. They won't.

    "Entry level" is a subjective term and I think I still have one of those dead horses in the closet we can beat to death again. But Kahr still makes small, all-metal frame pistols. As does Sig Sauer.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    One benefit of the steel-frame handgun is in the separate grip panels - don't like the look/feel/size/material? You got options.

    Good point. I hadn't considered this. Yes you can "fine tune" the grip of a steel frame pistol more than a molded polymer. My XDM has 3 different backstraps which does allow some tweaking but the grip itself is pretty much fixed.

    Just to mention, the grip of my XD had a more "pebbly" surface while the XDM is more rippled or ridged. The little "pebbles" of the XD are slightly annoying and the XDM is indeed more comfy.

    But you're right. You really can't switch out grips on polymer guns -- sure you can add wraps of various types but they all add thickness and with staggered magazines, the grips are about as wide as practical to start with.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I would not consider constant production of polymer frame piostols since basically 1970 a "trend" or a "fad". Those words indicate they might go away. They won't.

    "Entry level" is a subjective term and I think I still have one of those dead horses in the closet we can beat to death again. But Kahr still makes small, all-metal frame pistols. As does Sig Sauer.

    True. I bought my girlfriend a Kahr P9 and it's a nice, slim metal frame, just right for her grip.

    Not metal frame, sorry. Metal slide, poly frame. Ach! Still a clean, ergonomic design.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • BullgatorBullgator Member Posts: 393 Member
    Yeah, I wouldn't call it a fad after three decades and massive success. But there's plenty of steel guns out there. Neither steel or polymer is going away.
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Calling polymer guns a fad is the same as saying Tupperware is a fad.:tooth:
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    When done right, polymer has a lot going for it - lighter and thinner for its strength than steel, which was a huge selling point of the Glock right off the bat. Compare a 17-shot Glock with a 15 shot... oh, shall we pick on Beretta again? Which has the slimmer grip more adaptable to a wider range of hand sizes?

    And Ruger's P-95 series had me a little skeptical when they first came out - no metal slide rails on the frame!?!?! But, in sixteen years of service, backed by Ruger's ironclad customer service, and as I read a re-design of the locking system getting away from a pivoting link like 1911's and the metal-frame P85/89/90/91/94 Rugers, the new design resulting in a lessened force on the rails and frame allowing the fiberglass-reinforced P95 frame to stand up to a whole lot of shooting. Puts the Ruger P-95 on my short list right now for the house-gun purchase come tax return for me.
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    All that I can add to this is that people have been doing amazing things with plastic polymers for a while now. The ability to have the strength of steel and lightweight of titanium is a nice appeal to many. Besides, I never have to worry about the finish on my new Ruger LCR.
  • amtilton17amtilton17 Member Posts: 54 Member
    When done right, polymer has a lot going for it - lighter and thinner for its strength than steel, which was a huge selling point of the Glock right off the bat. Compare a 17-shot Glock with a 15 shot... oh, shall we pick on Beretta again? Which has the slimmer grip more adaptable to a wider range of hand sizes?

    And Ruger's P-95 series had me a little skeptical when they first came out - no metal slide rails on the frame!?!?! But, in sixteen years of service, backed by Ruger's ironclad customer service, and as I read a re-design of the locking system getting away from a pivoting link like 1911's and the metal-frame P85/89/90/91/94 Rugers, the new design resulting in a lessened force on the rails and frame allowing the fiberglass-reinforced P95 frame to stand up to a whole lot of shooting. Puts the Ruger P-95 on my short list right now for the house-gun purchase come tax return for me.

    I agree the many manufacturers have produced some really great polymer frame handguns. I own Ruger P95 myself and have owned a Springfield XD. I just still like the old fashioned steel frame and would like to add one to my "arsenal" one day, but I don't really want to spend $1,000 on one.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Don't be afraid to shop used. You shouldn't have to spend anywhere NEAR $1K to get a quality steel (or alloy)-framed pistol - CZ-75/85 are good of course, Ruger P-89 or any other cast-frame P-series, Smith & Wesson duty pistols, Springfield (for 1911), are all good names to look for. A lot of police trades will show a lot of holster and cosmetic wear, but have actually relatively little shooting wear - lots of carry, minimal shooting.
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    And to be truthful, I see the proliferation of integral frame accessory rails to be more of a "fad" than plastic frames. Although having the rail is handy for addition of tactical lighting, it does IMO encourage use of the pistol as a flashlight for those not trained - I can see instances of muzzles covering a housemate/family member when you go to check out that bump in the night.

    I am glad to see one fad dropping off, and that's the hooked trigger guards that caught on for the finger-forward support grip. The latest crop of Rugers, as well as a lot of higher-end 1911's, are getting away from this little design feature.
  • Virginia BoyVirginia Boy Member Posts: 213 Member
    The CZ75, is a very nice handgun, very accurate, and as reliable as any.
    It is a little large & heavy for concealed carry(IMHO), but a great home defense,
    or vehicle gun.
    Here is a CZ75BSA, I bought ,used, at a gun show, for $350.00, it came with 2, 16
    round magazines.
    Rights and freedoms, won with patriot's blood,
    shall not be taken away, by ink from a tyrant's pen.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    And to be truthful, I see the proliferation of integral frame accessory rails to be more of a "fad" than plastic frames. Although having the rail is handy for addition of tactical lighting, it does IMO encourage use of the pistol as a flashlight for those not trained - I can see instances of muzzles covering a housemate/family member when you go to check out that bump in the night.

    I am glad to see one fad dropping off, and that's the hooked trigger guards that caught on for the finger-forward support grip. The latest crop of Rugers, as well as a lot of higher-end 1911's, are getting away from this little design feature.

    Interesting points, gun. Maybe you should start a new thread in the regular firearm section on what "add-ons" are fads and which may be of value. Probably would be a popular thread and bring some fun commentary.

    Using the light on the rail as a flashlight never occurred to me, but I can surely see it happening for untrained folks. A good warning for everyone, even those who're practiced, to keep in mind. Having that light might tempt us to swing it across a partner's body without really much thought.

    Interesting the little curved front trigger guard. I can see how it's helpful to those who use the "weak hand forward" grip. I've tried that a few times but it tends to make me "reach" further than I should. I guess with lots of practice...

    I don't even think about it -- it's there on my XD and XDM, not on my 1911s, and its being there doesn't get in my way, so heck. No biggie.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Interesting points, gun. Maybe you should start a new thread in the regular firearm section on what "add-ons" are fads and which may be of value. Probably would be a popular thread and bring some fun commentary.

    Hmmm. You got me thinkin' there Sam. A dangerous proposition at times, but it would be interesting! I have a couple other ideas of current trends, so I think I'll throw it up there.
  • cappy54cappy54 Member Posts: 269 Member
    All i have to say is that yes blue steel and walnut may be fancy but today's polymers are tough and hold up a lot better to the enviorment, hey look at computers in the last 2 decades gotta stay up with the times, im an old far*^(%*%& as a having been a boat captain and outdoorsman its the next best thing after peanut butter and jelly. My 2cnts.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    cappy, agreed. I certainly don't have any problems with the traditional metal frame pistols. I dearly love my 1911s and think that pistol is the finest ever designed.

    But I'm also okay with my Glocks, my XD and XDM. Excellent pistols.

    Like ol' Larry Olivier said in Spartacus, I like both snails and oysters. Okay, so he was talking about guys and gals, but...

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    How you love to slaughter that mans name, Laurence Olivier, dear gawd why man ?

    They also said television was a passing fad, rock & roll too.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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