Here are some interesting firearms terms according to the dictionary.

GermanShepherd

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/

gun

any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver

firearm

a small arms weapon, as a rifle or pistol, from which a projectile is fired by gunpowder

handgun

any firearm that can be held and fired with one hand; a revolver or a pistol

pistol

a short firearm intended to be held and fired with one hand

revolver

a handgun having a revolving chambered cylinder for holding a number of cartridges, which may be discharged in succession without reloading

rifle

a shoulder firearm with spiral grooves cut in the inner surface of the gun barrel to give the bullet a rotatory motion and thus a more precise trajectory

shotgun

a smoothbore gun for firing small shots to kill birds and small quadrupeds, though often used with buckshot to kill larger animals

riot gun

a gun, especially a shotgun with a short barrel, for quelling riots rather than inflicting serious injury

machine pistol

a fully automatic pistol; submachine gun

submachine gun

a lightweight automatic or semiautomatic gun, fired from the shoulder or hip. Abbreviation: SMG

assault weapon

any of various automatic and semiautomatic military firearms utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge, designed for individual use.Compare assault rifle.

assault rifle

1. a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.

2. a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire.

buttstock

the part of the stock located behind the breech mechanism of a firearm

stock

1. the wooden or metal piece to which the barrel and mechanism of a rifle are attached
2. a part of an automatic weapon, as a machine gun, similar in position or function.

carbine

1. a light, gas-operated semiautomatic rifle

2. (formerly) a short rifle used in the cavalry

musket

a heavy, large-caliber smoothbore gun for infantry soldiers, introduced in the 16th century: the predecessor of the modern rifle

muzzleloader

a firearm that is loaded through the muzzle

What I gather from studying firearms terminology in the dictionary is that if it can't be fired from the shoulder, it's not a RIFLE. Legal, police and military definitions related to firearms may differ from how the dictionary defines these terms. In the army, one never dares refer to a RIFLE as a GUN though the dictionary defines GUN in terms of RIFLE and other firearms types. Apparently, rifles and machine guns are the only weapons having a STOCK according to the dictionary and stocks can't be plastic or synthetic.

The civilian AR type rifles and carbines you can buy over the counter ONLY permit semi-automatic fire and never (full) automatic fire. By the definitions of ASSAULT WEAPON and ASSAULT RIFLE in the dictionary, no civilian AR can ever strictly conform to the definition of ASSAULT RIFLE or ASSAULT WEAPON.  The US military's M4 Carbine is, in fact, capable of full automatic fire though the dictionary restricts CARBINE to semi-automatic fire.

SLUG GUN is not defined in the dictionary. A SHOTGUN is defined as a SMOOTHBORE gun. What is a "shotgun" with a rifled barrel really? Often shotgun manufacturers advertise rifled barrels for these guns. Some gun writers refer to these as "slug guns". Though shotguns often have a BUTTSTOCK, a few don't. The dictionary doesn't require a SHOTGUN to have means to be fired from the shoulder. The dictionary also doesn't say a shotgun has to have any specific barrel length but some laws restrict its shortness.

If the dictionary were ever to include SLUG GUN, how should it accurately be defined?

The whole point of this thread is that people often don't understand "gun speak" well and much bad legislation can come to be on account of this lack of firearms fluency.  The dictionary authors, for example, don't understand that shotguns often have parts called stocks.

GunNut

Dictionaries are not where you go find/study definitions of firearms.  Federal and State law is where you need to be.  Go so your other thread, I just answered your question.

GunNut

I'll just paste it here.


The terms Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Firearm have specified definitions at a Federal level.

The ATF has defined a rifle as follows: "The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger."  

Rifles must have a minimum barrel length (16") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A shotgun is defined as follows: The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Shotguns must have a minimum barrel length (18") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A Pistol is defined as follows: The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

-a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);

-and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

There is no mention of a maximum barrel length in the ATF definition.

The ATF does not define a "Handgun" as far as I know but states normally do in their laws/regulations concerning activities like Concealed Carry and Hunting.  The generally acceptable general definition is: Handgun is a firearm with a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.  This is the definition in my state laws.

Many states further specify that a handgun does not exceed 12 inches measured from the two farthest points on the gun when dealing with Concealed Carry, and as another example Wyoming sets a 16" maximum limit on barrels of "handguns" in their hunting regulations.

GermanShepherd

Agreed, one should study these things through the eyes of the law to steer clear of trouble. Many lay people (non-firearms-experts) don't though. This is a complex world these days and language can be full of gray area.

There used to be a time when most Americans bought a car or a pickup truck. Then Chevrolet brought out an El Camino and Ford brought out a Ranchero. What the devil are these vehicles? Are they cars or are they trucks? Nowadays we have these strange things called SUV's and crossovers.

In 1950's America, let's say, most people, including hunters, then had a much simpler understanding of guns too. You had revolvers, you had pistols with magazines, you had rifles (often with wooden stocks) and you had shotguns (often with wooden stocks). America was also much more simple and innocent before complex gun laws came on the books starting with the National Firearms Act of 1934. At one time there was but one simple "gun law": the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

Spk

Dictionaries are starting points. If you don't have a point of reference, you'll be hopelessly lost if you try to navigate the nuances (read nitty gritty) of meaningful exchange.

GunNut is spot on. Don't base your entire argument on what the dictionary says. It's simply a point of reference, not an end all, be all. Dictionaries do change quite often you know. I've used a number of online dictionaries in the past and most will differ on basic definitions. Some have differed so much as to almost have an entirely different meaning altogether.

GermanShepherd said:

...

The whole point of this thread is that people often don't understand "gun speak" well and much bad ... can come ... of this lack of firearms fluency.

...

I agree. I've seen it all over the net. The hard part is wading through it without getting flustered.

GermanShepherd

GunNut said:

I'll just paste it here.


The terms Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Firearm have specified definitions at a Federal level.

The ATF has defined a rifle as follows: "The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger."  

Rifles must have a minimum barrel length (16") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A shotgun is defined as follows: The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Shotguns must have a minimum barrel length (18") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A Pistol is defined as follows: The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

-a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);

-and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

There is no mention of a maximum barrel length in the ATF definition.

The ATF does not define a "Handgun" as far as I know but states normally do in their laws/regulations concerning activities like Concealed Carry and Hunting.  The generally acceptable general definition is: Handgun is a firearm with a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.  This is the definition in my state laws.

Many states further specify that a handgun does not exceed 12 inches measured from the two farthest points on the gun when dealing with Concealed Carry, and as another example Wyoming sets a 16" maximum limit on barrels of "handguns" in their hunting regulations.

It then seems as the ATF doesn't recognize a "shotgun" without a buttstock since that obviously can't be fired from the shoulder. What is a Mossberg 590 Shockwave then?

PFD

Don't even get started with:

Gat

Heater

Roscoe

Piece

Snubby

Saturday night special

Chicago typewriter

Old slabsides

scatter gun

And that was off the top of my noggin.

GermanShepherd

Just slang terms for various guns which the dictionary may or may not cover.

RELOAD is in my dictionary but it has nothing to do with the construction of ammunition or the reuse of ammo components.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/reload

GunNut

GermanShepherd said:

GunNut said:

I'll just paste it here.


The terms Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Firearm have specified definitions at a Federal level.

The ATF has defined a rifle as follows: "The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger."  

Rifles must have a minimum barrel length (16") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A shotgun is defined as follows: The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Shotguns must have a minimum barrel length (18") and minimum overall length (26").  Anything originally built or altered to be shorter than these measurements is defined as a "Firearm" and must be registered with the ATF.

A Pistol is defined as follows: The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

-a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);

-and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

There is no mention of a maximum barrel length in the ATF definition.

The ATF does not define a "Handgun" as far as I know but states normally do in their laws/regulations concerning activities like Concealed Carry and Hunting.  The generally acceptable general definition is: Handgun is a firearm with a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.  This is the definition in my state laws.

Many states further specify that a handgun does not exceed 12 inches measured from the two farthest points on the gun when dealing with Concealed Carry, and as another example Wyoming sets a 16" maximum limit on barrels of "handguns" in their hunting regulations.

It then seems as the ATF doesn't recognize a "shotgun" without a buttstock since that obviously can't be fired from the shoulder. What is a Mossberg 590 Shockwave then?

It’s a Firearm, outside of the definition of shotgun, rifle or pistol.  Some firearms are more heavily regulated than others.  Short barrel firearms that fall under the definition of rifle or shotgun, but then have stock AND/OR barrels altered to be shorter than the specified minimums, require NFA registration prior to making them.  The 590 falls outside of the designation because it was never manufactured as a shotgun to begin with.  If you were to convert a regular shotgun into a 590 type firearm you’d need ATF approval in the way of a tax stamp.

GermanShepherd

Yes, a FIREARM according to the ATF but a SHOTGUN according to the dictionary.

Mossberg used to sell 500 and 590 shotguns (dictionary definition) , 18-20" barrel, with no butt stock but a pistol grip. It seems as the ATF would view that as a FIREARM too since that also can't be shoulder-fired. I once bought a 590 with such a pistol grip from a LGS in Georgia but soon changed that over aftermarket with an optional Mossberg speedfeed buttstock thus making it an ATF-recognized "shotgun". It's amazing what a socket wrench can do.

https://www.quora.com/How-can-the-Mossberg-shockwave-be-legal

When I was a little boy at age 5, I got a toy shotgun (as my mother called it) with two barrels. One beside the other. I first associated the term 'shotgun' with something that shoots, goes BANG!, is shaped somewhat like a rifle and has double barrels. I didn't know why that configuration was called a SHOTGUN since all GUNS were made to be SHOT. My grandfather later on explained to me that these GUNS fired pellets called SHOT (not bullets) and were made to shoot ducks and birds. My grandfather explained that a rifle would tear a duck in the sky up if you were even able to hit it. Even later on in life, I discovered SHOTGUNS with only one barrel. In the late 1970's I saw these really weird-looking things called OVER/UNDERS. They reminded me of those '60's cars with quad headlights stacked vertically. I think a few Cadillacs, a few Pontiacs and a few Fords then.

Big Al1

GermanShepherd

Side note: I like the days when ATF only meant "automatic transmission fluid" (that cherry-red liquid stuff) for clutch-less cars.

earlyagain

Chicago typewriter
Lemon squeezer
Grease gun
Hog leg
Bloop tube
Hitler's buz saw
Old slab sides
Betsy
Horse pistol
Pimp gun


And so many more......

GermanShepherd

knitepoet said:

GermanShepherd said:

Side note: I like the days when ATF only meant "automatic transmission fluid" (that cherry-red liquid stuff) for clutch-less cars.

Well, technically their entire acronym is BATFE, but no one seems to care about the B for bureau and not a lot of folks here play with explosives

I take it that cars with automatic transmissions were around a lot longer than BATFE. ATF came into vogue sometimes in the 1990's and was used in the media and gun publications a lot.  Often when "ATF" is uttered it is in defense of gun rights and shows hatred for the existence of that Bureau. I would open a fifth of Scotch to celebrate the disbanding of this particular Bureau for good, speaking of the Alcohol (A) part.

NN

My head is just spinning    

GunNut

knitepoet said:

The dictionary can't put you in a federal prison for 10+ years, the ATF can. Choose your source wisely.

THIS bears repeating in case you missed it or have just decided to see how long you can run this useless thread.  

Put down the dictionary, it's useless on this subject.  Regardless of what you think or Webster tells you the 590 is a FIREARM.  That is the legal definition from the BATF and the ONLY one that counts unless you want to spend the rest of your days hosted by a Federal Penitentiary.

Freezer

Na.... Cars are there because they can be "Gunned"

Some_Mook

GermanShepherd said:

Side note: I like the days when ATF only meant "automatic transmission fluid" (that cherry-red liquid stuff) for clutch-less cars.

You are aware that Automatic Transmissions are not "clutch-less" and that the "cherry-red liquid stuff" has a primary function of providing a means to hydraulically control and apply the clutches that are inside an automatic transmission, right?  

If you are not aware of this, by all means look it up in the dictionary, or Google it and then share your newfound knowledge with the good folks on some automotive forums.

GunNut

And on a related topic, the ATF enforces laws enacted by Congress and work under the direction of the Executive branch.  Just a bunch of working dudes.  All my interactions with them have been courteous, helpful, professional, positive and expedient.  I see no reason to “hate” them for just doing their job.

Zee

I think the concept of “Less Talk / More Thought” could be applied throughout the life of the OP. 

Justsomedude

Perhaps stop attempting to be a teacher and just act like you would if you were shooting the BS with buddies at a campfire. I promise I may be ugly but I don't needs no learnin... 

Zee

Justsomedude said:

Perhaps stop attempting to be a teacher and just act like you would if you were shooting the BS with buddies at a campfire. I promise I may be ugly but I don't needs no learnin... 

True. Nothing has been brought to the table by the OP to date but a lesson in patience and tolerance. 

Don’t want him gone. Just want less volume and more actual substance. He says so much to equal so little. 

GermanShepherd

GunNut said:

knitepoet said:

The dictionary can't put you in a federal prison for 10+ years, the ATF can. Choose your source wisely.

THIS bears repeating in case you missed it or have just decided to see how long you can run this useless thread.  

Put down the dictionary, it's useless on this subject.  Regardless of what you think or Webster tells you the 590 is a FIREARM.  That is the legal definition from the BATF and the ONLY one that counts unless you want to spend the rest of your days hosted by a Federal Penitentiary.

What crime have I committed? If you love BATF so much, please go marry an agent there.

GermanShepherd

Zee said:

Justsomedude said:

Perhaps stop attempting to be a teacher and just act like you would if you were shooting the BS with buddies at a campfire. I promise I may be ugly but I don't needs no learnin... 

True. Nothing has been brought to the table by the OP to date but a lesson in patience and tolerance. 

Don’t want him gone. Just want less volume and more actual substance. He says so much to equal so little. 

Patience and tolerance are great virtues: please try them out yourself. If you want more substance, please go pan for gold. Don't read my handiwork then.

GermanShepherd

GunNut said:

And on a related topic, the ATF enforces laws enacted by Congress and work under the direction of the Executive branch.  Just a bunch of working dudes.  All my interactions with them have been courteous, helpful, professional, positive and expedient.  I see no reason to “hate” them for just doing their job.

I hate this agency. It serves no Constitutional purpose. Many gun dealers hate this agency. The ATF are vicious thugs and incompetent idiots that raid honest gun stores for some glitch in paperwork, I've been told. They often cause much property damage to gun store owners. If I had my way, the ATF would be summarily disbanded and every anti-gun law would be abolished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ql0MalL5U0

GermanShepherd

knitepoet said:

GermanShepherd said:
I take it that cars with automatic transmissions were around a lot longer than BATFE. ATF came into vogue sometimes in the 1990's and was used in the media and gun publications a lot.  Often when "ATF" is uttered it is in defense of gun rights and shows hatred for the existence of that Bureau. I would open a fifth of Scotch to celebrate the disbanding of this particular Bureau for good, speaking of the Alcohol (A) part.

Close but no "see-gar" They became an independent agency July 1, 1972

Can you PLEASE, at least do a rudimentary check on this drivel you're posting? I promise, it's not that difficult to do

I meant I heard people started saying "ATF" in the 1990's. Before the 1990's I hadn't heard any talk about that "bureau" at all from any source. I had never heard of that agency before the 1990's myself. I do know cars with automatic transmissions existed long before 1972. I was just making a pun on the abbreviation "ATF", that's all.

I can hardly believe such an anti-gun independent agency as ATF was founded under Nixon's watch. My pro-gun grandfather voted for him twice. For what godly all-American purpose they were put into existence, I can't say.

Drivel? I just thought it would be fun to make a thread on gun terminology. Many people here apparently don't seem amused.

You'd probably have more fun out at the range shooting than worrying about what words all things "gun" are called. Ok, I see. Have fun with your mechanical contraptions that push small objects out of tubes at significant velocities through the air and please be safe! 

GermanShepherd

Some_Mook said:

GermanShepherd said:

Side note: I like the days when ATF only meant "automatic transmission fluid" (that cherry-red liquid stuff) for clutch-less cars.

You are aware that Automatic Transmissions are not "clutch-less" and that the "cherry-red liquid stuff" has a primary function of providing a means to hydraulically control and apply the clutches that are inside an automatic transmission, right?  

If you are not aware of this, by all means look it up in the dictionary, or Google it and then share your newfound knowledge with the good folks on some automotive forums.

I meant cars with automatic transmissions, "clutch-less" cars, don't have clutch pedals that people step on.

GermanShepherd

knitepoet said:

The dictionary can't put you in a federal prison for 10+ years, the ATF can. Choose your source wisely.

I never suggested that one break any laws. If I say my smoothbore gun is a SHOTGUN or MARY JONES, then there's no crime there.  If the ATF wants to call it a "dog turd" then that's their business.

zorba

This thread has now lost all entertainment value...

GermanShepherd

ATF often contradicts themselves:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPXKyL1DWBA

Ok, I will try to stick to serious gun topics from now on and leave the light humor out it if you all please. How do you like my signature?

Some_Mook

GermanShepherd said:

Some_Mook said:

GermanShepherd said:

Side note: I like the days when ATF only meant "automatic transmission fluid" (that cherry-red liquid stuff) for clutch-less cars.

You are aware that Automatic Transmissions are not "clutch-less" and that the "cherry-red liquid stuff" has a primary function of providing a means to hydraulically control and apply the clutches that are inside an automatic transmission, right?  

If you are not aware of this, by all means look it up in the dictionary, or Google it and then share your newfound knowledge with the good folks on some automotive forums.

I meant cars with automatic transmissions, "clutch-less" cars, don't have clutch pedals that people step on.

I know what you meant, I just did not know if you knew that you were wrong to describe an automatic transmission as being without clutches.   Most people simply use the word 'manual' when describing a transmission that is not an automatic.

 You remind me of the guy who once asked me if I had "the thing you keep in your pocket that has the little lines on it that you use to measure things with"

I am sure that he had at least once in his life heard the words 'pocket rule' before then, but maybe his brain was wired differently than most, and he had challenges when attempting to intelligently communicate with others.  In his own mind he was probably a genius.

For all I know, he became a politician.  He was far too mentally challenged to make an honest living as an auto mechanic.