Home› Main Category› General Firearms
Bigslug
Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
Zee The Enabler (PC Carbine)
Bigslug
Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
I don't know if Zee is really all that much to blame here. I mean, really, it shoots work-supplied ammo and eats it out of mags made by Glock. Kinda no-brainy, really.
Got the State Compliance version - which probably would have been my choice regardless. That will become clear to y'all as I move toward certain aesthetic choices.
Ruger was kind enough to include a metal M-lok rail with three mounting bolts (SOLID!) Given that this is a takedown gun, attaching all the sighting systems to the half with the barrel would seem to make sense. The Holosun HC515CM came with an AR riser between the sight and the throw-lever base - easy enough to remove.
I shot a few rounds through it before I installed the MCARBO brake. It's a REALLY nice piece of well-machined steel, but I really can't feel any difference. The gun shoots really flat as it is (tungsten dead-blow weight in the bolt body), and a 147 grain / 1000 fps 9mm load probably doesn't have enough gas pressure left at the end of a 16" barrel to properly energize it. Oh well. . .it's on and not hurting anything.
Other than that. . The conversion from Ruger magwell to Glock was idiot-simple. I moved the charging handle to the left side to make it more AR-like, and took the spacers out of the stock to get the length down. Extra bits of Mag Pul rail installed in preparation for the flashlight I don't have yet. The sling is on, but you're gonna have to wait to see that.
I got it on paper at 25 yards in preparation for a 75 yard zero, which should have about 3" of drop at 100. Proper accuracy testing to follow, and I will probably use real duty loads for the deed. Having taken a few apart for measurements, Winchester's Q.C. on "the good stuff" seems really excellent. Given that neither the gun, nor the ammo are advertised with the word "MATCH", it's probably the best we can do.
Initial impressions though:
1. After about 100-150 rounds It's a stupid-fun little carbine that's very controllable and would make anyone who does not want the weight or recoil of a shotgun a dandy choice for H.D.
Truthfully, I'm partially evaluating it as a shotgun alternative. If Remington does NOT stop their spiral down the drain, and the Fountain Of Parts for the 870 dries up, some re-evaluation will be necessary.
2. Reliability excellent with 147 grain training loads. Had one failure to feed, which I chalk up entirely to a problematic mag that had some plastic flashing left inside that made loading difficult. It literally is a big 10/22 takedown, and I'm probably going to treat it like one - see just how much soot it can handle.
3. With 147 grain subsonic loads expanding all their gas in 16" worth of barrel, it is louder than a suppressed MP5. . .but not by a whole heck of a lot. Possibly less ear-splitting than high-vel .22's. . .and that's REALLY NEAT!
If you're on the fence, I'd suggest jumping. It's FUN!
Got the State Compliance version - which probably would have been my choice regardless. That will become clear to y'all as I move toward certain aesthetic choices.
Ruger was kind enough to include a metal M-lok rail with three mounting bolts (SOLID!) Given that this is a takedown gun, attaching all the sighting systems to the half with the barrel would seem to make sense. The Holosun HC515CM came with an AR riser between the sight and the throw-lever base - easy enough to remove.
I shot a few rounds through it before I installed the MCARBO brake. It's a REALLY nice piece of well-machined steel, but I really can't feel any difference. The gun shoots really flat as it is (tungsten dead-blow weight in the bolt body), and a 147 grain / 1000 fps 9mm load probably doesn't have enough gas pressure left at the end of a 16" barrel to properly energize it. Oh well. . .it's on and not hurting anything.
Other than that. . The conversion from Ruger magwell to Glock was idiot-simple. I moved the charging handle to the left side to make it more AR-like, and took the spacers out of the stock to get the length down. Extra bits of Mag Pul rail installed in preparation for the flashlight I don't have yet. The sling is on, but you're gonna have to wait to see that.
I got it on paper at 25 yards in preparation for a 75 yard zero, which should have about 3" of drop at 100. Proper accuracy testing to follow, and I will probably use real duty loads for the deed. Having taken a few apart for measurements, Winchester's Q.C. on "the good stuff" seems really excellent. Given that neither the gun, nor the ammo are advertised with the word "MATCH", it's probably the best we can do.
Initial impressions though:
1. After about 100-150 rounds It's a stupid-fun little carbine that's very controllable and would make anyone who does not want the weight or recoil of a shotgun a dandy choice for H.D.
Truthfully, I'm partially evaluating it as a shotgun alternative. If Remington does NOT stop their spiral down the drain, and the Fountain Of Parts for the 870 dries up, some re-evaluation will be necessary.
2. Reliability excellent with 147 grain training loads. Had one failure to feed, which I chalk up entirely to a problematic mag that had some plastic flashing left inside that made loading difficult. It literally is a big 10/22 takedown, and I'm probably going to treat it like one - see just how much soot it can handle.
3. With 147 grain subsonic loads expanding all their gas in 16" worth of barrel, it is louder than a suppressed MP5. . .but not by a whole heck of a lot. Possibly less ear-splitting than high-vel .22's. . .and that's REALLY NEAT!
If you're on the fence, I'd suggest jumping. It's FUN!
WWJMBD?
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Replies
A thousand and one uses. Carries, stores, and aims with the ease of wand.....
Iron sights attached to AR handguards rather than the barrel seem to run acceptably enough provided the handguard install is done right, so I don't think this is any kind of heinous sin. All of 30 seconds required to move it to the receiver so it's not like we're committed.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Would love to own one but alas! not the place nor the time. Would be a great option over my M-1 Carbine since its age, heavier punch and ammo price makes it not so range-friendly compared to these Rugers.
1. Seeing how widely you can tweak the capabilities of pistol rounds by switching from stuff that expands to stuff that doesn't. . .
2. That when your primary range peaks out at only 180 yards, and it's really only flat for the first 100 of that. . .
3. That many folks really suck with handguns and don't have the time or inclination to get proficient with one. . .
4. That the long barrel is basically a silencer. . .
I think #1 on that list was really what settled it. We USED TO think that matching lever gun ammo to one's revolver made sense, then we got into the era where everybody thought it was impossible to kill anything unless the bullet mushroomed itself inside out, penetration went down the toilet, and we started taking it for granted that rifles had to be howitzers to get anything done. I'm gonna have a nice stash of 147 grain flat point FMJ's and probably an obscene one of 135 grain cast WFN's. Should be capable of solving a great many problems that are on the same football field (Like I'd EVER be on a football field. . .
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Thus, these carbines are probably capable of being the answer to a lot more questions than our raised-in-the-'70's-and-'80's conditioning would initially make us think. Trajectory- and noise-wise, they're a .22LR with mass and diameter. Potentially, that's a pretty useful tool.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
If they'd done a locked breech instead of a blowback, there would be no need for the tungsten weights in the bolt, but that starts to get away from the "simple" that is often sought in such things.
I moved the optic back onto the receiver today - feeling pretty good about that. Proper 75 yard zero and shoot for group Friday!
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
I like the gun's weight anyway; don't mind reasonably heavier-than-average rifles since they usually give you a steady shooting platform and almost none will be carried around in field conditions for more than brief periods. Maybe some 2-gun scenarios now and then.....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I6Qb6kAJjChEJ56qhznv2291c5UHRDyNXuSXGObumqM/edit#gid=1281452680
It's from 2017, so there's new components out there....
The thing I really want is the collapsible wire stock
Winston Churchill
That means the stock weighs 2.039 pounds or 32.62 ounces or 924.87 grams. Seems like that is the best place to lose some weight.
***Note that is for the normal pc carbine. Not my pic.
Winston Churchill
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I have an original "paratrooper stock" to turn my Inland M-1 into an M1A1 and other than reducing its size for more comfortable transport, it does less than nothing to allow even relatively accurate simiauto fire beyond 50 yards when unfolded, and have tried those wire stocks like the one in the photo and at least to me they aren't better in neither ergonomics or for steady aim.
Probably the only service guns with such kind of folding stocks I've ever found reasonably comfortable and useful when shooting were in the NK AKMs our cops have, the 5.56 Galils and the German MP-40.
Picked up Dad and left his place in calm conditions. Got to range in 30MPH gusts - not only NOT ideal for testing a slow, non-streamlined bullet, but also NOT ideal conditions for keeping one's target stand from blowing over. . .repeatedly. . .despite attempts to weigh it down. Soooooo. . .meaningful science NOT concluded.
Online trajectory computers seem to indicate that a 75 yard zero is probably the ideal thing, so had to set up a portable target stand as our range's fixed backers are at 50 and 100.
Got this first group fired. . .four out of five into about 1.5" at 75 yards. Not too shabby for pistol ammo, a 2 MOA red dot, and a takedown gun. Then the stand blew over.
Made some adjustments to the red dot, reset the stand, and got a group that was more like 6" wide by 3" tall. Stand blew over again. Reset - blew over again before I could get another group off. Said "SCREW IT!" and took my frustrations out on cans and water bottles.
Not much definitive to be stated, I'm afraid. Wind and uncertain zero factored in, I'm pretty confident it'll stay inside 3-4" at 100 yards on a calm day - - but this was one where staying in bed would have been the better call. To be continued another day.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Will this work? Wondering about the handgrip.....
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
The action scoped is 3 pounds WITH the Bushnell red dot attached.
Finally, the barrel and foreend
Which bring us to 116 ounces or 7.25 pounds with the Bushnell red dot and add an ounce or two for the sling which I didn't weigh. It feels like a pig but all the weight is in the barrel and action so there really isn't much that can be pared down in my estimation. .
The attachment point on the back doesn't look too difficult.
The magpul stock is estimated to weigh about 2 ounces MORE than the one I have, so that's out.
Still love the carbine.
Winston Churchill