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Primitive archery guys…

GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
Found a hand-made Osage Orange bow.  No maker marks or idea of poundage etc.  I don’t know crap about these but I intend to get a primitive archery set going here and possibly hunt with it this fall.  HELP!!!


The rawhide is not a repair, no clue what it’s for.  I strung it and I need to start working out to draw and keep a draw at full extension!!!  Damn

Sources/ideas for arrows, quiver etc. please!
Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,613 Senior Member
    You'll shoot your eye out... ;)
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,255 Senior Member
    edited May 22 #3
    I'll not be able to get the image (thought) of you hunting in a loin cloth out of my head!! :#

    See the source image
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,406 Senior Member
    Where is Gene? Didn't he write/edit for Primative Archery magazine?


    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    I'll not be able to get the image (thought) of you hunting in a loin cloth out of my head!! :#

    See the source image
    No loin cloth, I’m going full Neanderthal…. Hummmm, did they use bows?!?!?
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    Where is Gene? Didn't he write/edit for Primative Archery magazine?


    That’s what I thought.  I was hoping he’d chime in!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,763 Senior Member
    GunNut said: No loin cloth, I’m going full Neanderthal…. Hummmm, did they use bows?!?!?
    Pretty sure the paleontologists agree that projectile weapons were pretty much a **** Sapiens thing.  Clothing probably required - don't want to get stuff caught in the string, or if you go modern, the pulleys.

    Good news is holding the draw is mostly a compound bow thing.  Traditional is more of a draw-anchor-let-rip thing.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,796 Senior Member
    Big Al1 said:
    I'll not be able to get the image (thought) of you hunting in a loin cloth out of my head!! :#

    See the source image
    After Zorba.........my brain is already pretty fried. Nothing else can make it worse. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,638 Senior Member
    edited May 23 #9
    Yep...holding this thing at full draw isn't a thing...draw, aim, release...think snap shooting...

    I had one when I lived in Kansas made by,a Cheyenne bow maker...
    The thing was complete with a buckskin quiver and a hand full of hand fletched arrows with wild rose shafts and knapped chert arrowheads...

    I donated it to the small museum we maintained at the Refuge...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,796 Senior Member
    Before I was into LR shooting, I was a dedicated bow hunter. My first job was working at an archery shop after school fletching arrows and working on bows at age 12 for 1.25 cents an hour. 

    Two rebuilt shoulders later......archery is probably not going to be a comeback kid. But, if I do, it’ll be traditional. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,503 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Big Al1 said:
    I'll not be able to get the image (thought) of you hunting in a loin cloth out of my head!! :#

    See the source image
    No loin cloth, I’m going full Neanderthal…. Hummmm, did they use bows?!?!?
    Going full Nekkid and Afraid are you? That's admirable but you might want to protect the Frank & Beans from the drawstring. No worries, I got you covered.
    😁
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,503 Senior Member
    This place has a cool selection of arrows.

    But I think you're gonna want to have at least an idea of what draw weight you have on that bow.

    Hopefully, @Gene L will stop by soon. Wouldn't want to see you standing outside with your longbow in your hand and nothing to shoot. 🤣
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,245 Senior Member
    Oooooooh. Diamond Doug is going to love you...... When you next get together with Zee you can put to the test, possible defenses against those armed with release fire weapons........

    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,503 Senior Member
    orchidman said:
    Oooooooh. Diamond Doug is going to love you...... When you next get together with Zee you can put to the test, possible defenses against those armed with release fire weapons........

    Remember to shoot for the string. 🤣🤣🤣
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    edited May 23 #15
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...holding this thing at full draw isn't a thing...draw, aim, release...think snap shooting...

    I had one when I lived in Kansas made by,a Cheyenne bow maker...
    The thing was complete with a buckskin quiver and a hand full of hand fletched arrows with wild rose shafts and knapped chert arrowheads...

    I donated it to the small museum we maintained at the Refuge...
    Ok, explain…. What is a nickel in quiver? And what is chert?  

    I understand the concept of not holding a draw and it makes sense, because I couldn’t with this damn thing.  My intent is going Native American with the theme here.  Any places to look for accessories etc?  Maybe some ideas of quiver designs?  I will be using metal for the broadhead and would like to make my own arrows and keep them functional for hunting.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    orchidman said:
    Oooooooh. Diamond Doug is going to love you...... When you next get together with Zee you can put to the test, possible defenses against those armed with release fire weapons........

    Only if he’s the one with the realease weapon.  I’ve seen that boy shoot a gun and I’m not facing him with a bow… PERIOD!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,638 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...holding this thing at full draw isn't a thing...draw, aim, release...think snap shooting...

    I had one when I lived in Kansas made by,a Cheyenne bow maker...
    The thing was complete with a buckskin quiver and a hand full of hand fletched arrows with wild rose shafts and knapped chert arrowheads...

    I donated it to the small museum we maintained at the Refuge...
    Ok, explain…. What is a nickel in quiver? And what is chert?  

    I understand the concept of not holding a draw and it makes sense, because I couldn’t with this damn thing.  My intent is going Native American with the theme here.  Any places to look for accessories etc?  Maybe some ideas of quiver designs?  I will be using metal for the broadhead and would like to make my own arrows and keep them functional for hunting.
    nickel in is autocorrects attempt at "buckskin"...among the plains tribes, the quiver also served as a case for the unstrung bow..I have seen them crafted from rawhide and covered with buckskin.....among the woodlands tribes, the quiver often had a birchbark liner to help keep the the quivers shape....

    Chert is a stone that was often used for knapping arrowheads in areas that did not have a lot of flint or obsidian...



    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,638 Senior Member
    edited May 23 #18
    Your best bet for crafting your own arrows will be cedar shafts to begin with...let me look for suppliers for you...here's a place to start
    https://www.3riversarchery.com/
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Your best bet for crafting your own arrows will be cedar shafts to begin with...let me look for suppliers for you...here's a place to start
    https://www.3riversarchery.com/
    Didn’t see any cedar shafts… 
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,406 Senior Member
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,638 Senior Member
    They're there...keep scrolling..page two or three
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Cool, thanks!!!  I must have missed them...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,256 Senior Member
    Very cool find and congrats.  Looks like a heck of a fun project!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Very cool find and congrats.  Looks like a heck of a fun project!
    Yep.  Looking around for ideas for a Native American style quiver now.  I thought I had a stash of Turkey feathers somewhere but they seem to be missing 
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,347 Senior Member
    I was editor of Primitive Archer back a bit.  The bow looks to be a well made bow, a flat bow.  Is it possibly left handed?  The wraps below the grip I believe are sinew, not rawhide.  It's probably there because there is a fault in the belly or back of the bow and to keep a sliver from raising....  Where it is doesn't bend much, so I wonder if it's necessary.  Not that it does any harm.

    These bows are "flat bows" because the limbs are flat rather than "stacked" like an English bow (U shaped in cross section).  What is the length between the nocks?

    Don't hold it at full draw for long, the belly will weaken and cause it to lose cast.  You don't really need a brilliant cast to kill an animal.  My friend Doug has killed a car load of deer with a hickory bow and wooden arrows.  He shot a cow elk a few years ago with a hickory bow that was about 40 pounds pull after it got broken in.

    Wooden arrows can be found online but are likely expensive  I've not bought any arrows in many years; I have a bunch I keep in a wooden churn.  I can't recall who sells the arrows but you should be able to find them easy enough.  The "best" are port orford cedar, but that wood is scarcer now and Douglas Fir is more like what's going to be most common.

    I've made arrows out of Ramen dowels you get at the hardware store, but you have to be selective as some will break if you flex them.

    Wooden bows are great.  A lot of fun.  Osage is a traditional material, yew is most prized and especially for stacked bows, but humble hickory can be designed so it's as good as any.  Just have to make it wider. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,347 Senior Member
    edited May 24 #26
    Added...what we called "bird points" stone points were what Native Americans used for hunting deer, etc.  The bigger points the size of a modern steel point were atlatl points, which were used for a thousand years before archery came to America (which was only about 1500 years ago in N America.)

    There's a guy who experiments with stone points, I'll get a link to it.  He is a believer in the "bird points" for hunting and has killed quite a bit of large game with them.  The long/big atlatl points will break if shoot with a bow, or is likely to break.

    Add again: if you have turkey feathers that's great.  You can only use the first three feathers or so and they all have to be off the same wing for an arrow.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    I was editor of Primitive Archer back a bit.  The bow looks to be a well made bow, a flat bow.  Is it possibly left handed?  The wraps below the grip I believe are sinew, not rawhide.  It's probably there because there is a fault in the belly or back of the bow and to keep a sliver from raising....  Where it is doesn't bend much, so I wonder if it's necessary.  Not that it does any harm.

    It's right handed.  I believe you are correct as to the wrap being sinew.  If it doesn't do any harm I'll just keep it there.  Glad you think it's a well made bow.  I know nothing about these but I like this bow and intend to shoot it and hunt with it.

    These bows are "flat bows" because the limbs are flat rather than "stacked" like an English bow (U shaped in cross section).  What is the length between the nocks?

    65".  The "inside is really nice and smooth but the "outside" is rough for lack of a better term?  almost like someone went out of their way not to scrape the wood.  I seem to remember that you shape the bow by scraping the inside of the limb to get the correct symmetrical shape?

    Don't hold it at full draw for long, the belly will weaken and cause it to lose cast.  You don't really need a brilliant cast to kill an animal.  My friend Doug has killed a car load of deer with a hickory bow and wooden arrows.  He shot a cow elk a few years ago with a hickory bow that was about 40 pounds pull after it got broken in.

    Good to know.  Now when strung the string s only about 2.5" away from the bow.  Is that normal?  I couldn't hold this thing at full draw if my life depended on it.  I get to about 6" from my chin and it's s stretch form there.  My compound is set for 70 lbs and it's EASY to draw by comparison.  I wish I knew what the draw weight on this one is.





    Wooden arrows can be found online but are likely expensive  I've not bought any arrows in many years; I have a bunch I keep in a wooden churn.  I can't recall who sells the arrows but you should be able to find them easy enough.  The "best" are port orford cedar, but that wood is scarcer now and Douglas Fir is more like what's going to be most common.

    I did look online for wooden arrows but like you said, $$$$.  Damn even cedar shafts are more expensive than most of the carbon I use on my compound!  I mighty to get some pre-made arrows from a local store just to get started.  No sense in trashing new good arrows while I'm learning.  I'm going to set up a target in my garage and start at about 15 yards shooting from my driveway.

    I've made arrows out of Ramen dowels you get at the hardware store, but you have to be selective as some will break if you flex them.

    Interesting idea but wooden arrows always make me nervous.  MANY years ago my buddy decided to see if he could shoot an old wooden arrow from his new compound.  The darn thing basically exploded and he ended up in the emergency room having surgery to remove some NASTY HUGE splinters from deep in his hand!

    Wooden bows are great.  A lot of fun.  Osage is a traditional material, yew is most prized and especially for stacked bows, but humble hickory can be designed so it's as good as any.  Just have to make it wider. 

    I'm really looking forward to getting this one up and running again!  Is there anything I should use on the wood to condition it?  Is there any chance that it might dry up and splinter etc?  Any special care I should take with the bow?
    Gene L said:
    Added...what we called "bird points" stone points were what Native Americans used for hunting deer, etc.  The bigger points the size of a modern steel point were atlatl points, which were used for a thousand years before archery came to America (which was only about 1500 years ago in N America.)

    There's a guy who experiments with stone points, I'll get a link to it.  He is a believer in the "bird points" for hunting and has killed quite a bit of large game with them.  The long/big atlatl points will break if shoot with a bow, or is likely to break.

    I'd love to take a look at them, but for now I think I'm going to stick with metal... I think.  I saw some "trading points" in the site posted above, made out of flat steel that you can fit into a notch and sharpen.  Any thoughts on that?

    Add again: if you have turkey feathers that's great.  You can only use the first three feathers or so and they all have to be off the same wing for an arrow.

    Another bit of info I did not know...  I guess I'll just buy fletching from a supplier to keep the arrows consistent.
    My answers above in bold.

    Thanks SO MUCH for taking the time to answer my post and sorry it took me a few days to see your answer.  I really appreciate your expertise on the matter!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,347 Senior Member

    ..
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,347 Senior Member
    The sinew is there for a purpose so don't remove it.

    Port Orford cedar is in short supply.  It was/is being removed from swamps in Oregon by helicopter because the Japanese buy it up because they like the wood and the way it smells. My arrows are at least 25 years old, back when PO cedar was becoming scarce.

    The "inside" of the bow is the belly.  The opposite side is the back.  Your bow is likely 1 1/2" wide at the widest point of the limbs.  The shape of the bow can be cut out on a bandsaw or handsaw.  The back has to follow a single growth ring all the way down on either yew or Osage. A lot of work goes into the back of the bow.  The taper on the belly can be done with files and scrapers.

    The distance from the handle to the string, when strung, should be about 5-6".  That distance is called a fistmele, and originally was determined by putting your fist on the handle and extending your thumb.  That's the distance suggested.  You can shorten your string to accomplish this by twisting the string.

    As for trade points of steel, they are way primitive.  You can make your own from the steel strapping bands on heavy equipment.  Such points fixed into the wood is fairly easy to split, though.

    You don't need to put any special finish on your bow, just keep it inside.  Generally, the problems aren't with too dry wood, it's getting the moisture content down to about 8%. which is ideal.  For Osage.

    I realize I haven't answered all your questions so if you have any more specifics let me know.  It's a world away from compounds, not even the same sport. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Wow, thanks for the information!  I’ll take a little more time tomorrow to digest it. 
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    The sinew is there for a purpose so don't remove it.

    Port Orford cedar is in short supply.  It was/is being removed from swamps in Oregon by helicopter because the Japanese buy it up because they like the wood and the way it smells. My arrows are at least 25 years old, back when PO cedar was becoming scarce.

    The "inside" of the bow is the belly.  The opposite side is the back.  Your bow is likely 1 1/2" wide at the widest point of the limbs.  The shape of the bow can be cut out on a bandsaw or handsaw.  The back has to follow a single growth ring all the way down on either yew or Osage. A lot of work goes into the back of the bow.  The taper on the belly can be done with files and scrapers.

    The distance from the handle to the string, when strung, should be about 5-6".  That distance is called a fistmele, and originally was determined by putting your fist on the handle and extending your thumb.  That's the distance suggested.  You can shorten your string to accomplish this by twisting the string.

    As for trade points of steel, they are way primitive.  You can make your own from the steel strapping bands on heavy equipment.  Such points fixed into the wood is fairly easy to split, though.

    You don't need to put any special finish on your bow, just keep it inside.  Generally, the problems aren't with too dry wood, it's getting the moisture content down to about 8%. which is ideal.  For Osage.

    I realize I haven't answered all your questions so if you have any more specifics let me know.  It's a world away from compounds, not even the same sport. 
    Ok, the bow is almost 2" at its widest point and the limbs are about 5/8" thick close to the grip and taper to about 3/8" towards the nocks.  The back is slightly rounded but the belly is flat and you can tell that the back definitely follows a single growth ring.  

    I twisted the string as you recommended and got it the fistmele to 5 3/4". and interestingly enough that made it slightly easier to draw to a full draw.  The bow will be kept in my office at home and the humidity, even though we are in NC, is a pretty steady 56% indoors all year around because of the AC.  And yes this is a whole new world for me.  I used to be a pretty good hand with my compound but I can see where this will be a very challenging but probably REALLY fulfilling endeavor!

    I'm headed to see one of my partner gun store today and I'm going to ask if they have any steel strapping bands from one of their shipments.  Very once in a while the get a whole pallet of ARs delivered :D
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

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