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Ruger PC Carbine Range Report

BigslugBigslug Senior MemberPosts: 8,632 Senior Member
Original acquisition thread here: https://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/42353/zee-the-enabler-pc-carbine#latest

I think I'm going on record to say that if you already have the Ruger 9mm or the Glock (whose magazines fit), and you don't have one of these, you're probably nuts.

Since last transmission, I had the inspiration to coat the mating surfaces of the takedown barrel joint with some anti-seize compound and used the padded specialty pliers I normally use for removing sticky 870 magazine caps to get a few clicks tighter on the adjustment nut that one would be able to by hand.  You can still take it down, but it's notably snugger on the rotation when separating the halves now.

Got out and got it zeroed at 75 yards with Winchester 147 grain indoor training ammo (WC93), also shot 147 grain RA9T duty ammo, and the cheap practice 115 grain ball Q4172.  Ten shot groups of each from bags:



Not unexpectedly, the 115 grain shot to a different point of impact than the heavier slugs.  Note the low right flier.  Note also the low right flier on the Winclean.  Can't explain that one - I'm better than that, so we may well be testing ammo as well as the gun.  Right target is the duty-grade T-Series holding a tidy 2.5" inches.

Sooo. . .same stuff at 100 yards:



Draw your own conclusions.  A 2 MOA red dot is not the ideal sight; nor is 9mm Parabellum the ideal cartridge; nor is a takedown barrel, blowback action carbine the ideal rifle for the 100 yard splitting of hairs.  Ten shot groups fired to start looking into the limitations of the full system.  I don't think many folks would be pulling this off with the same ammo in a pistol, and aside from the two tossers out to the right, I find the Winclean group in the middle rather intriguing. . .

Perhaps more illustrative of the practical applications, I ran our AR-15 qual course with each type of ammo, the best being the Winclean:



That consists of 30 rounds - nine at 100 yards in a combo of supported standing, kneeling and prone; five kneeling at 75 and 50 yards; and eleven at 15 yards.  293 out of a possible 300.  The duty ammo did slightly worse mostly via operator error, but still in the 290's.  Held on the neck at 100 for the 147's.  This score is pretty much on par with what I do with the M4 platform, so little difference in practical field accuracy to that range.  The ball rounds (holding dead on at all ranges) dropped into the high 270's, mostly due to the higher-left point of impact - probably could have been ten points higher were the gun zeroed for it.

(Kinda want to bolt a real scope to it for a spell just to see what it can really do.  The other voice in my head said "not what this thing is FOR".)

Also took it out to 150 yards on the range's 18" diameter steel gongs.  It took only about 18" of holdover, but the gun had no trouble ringing them repeatedly once that was figured out.

Some hundreds of rounds through it thus far between me and letting my buddies play.  Only feeding issues have been from one mag known to have problems (since dropped from the rotation).  Have only bore-snaked it at this point - - logic being, it's a big 10/22, probably a leading contender in the "never cleaned - still runs" game.  I'm honestly looking to see what crud the bolt accumulates before I get into it.

I wish it was more "military" in its takedown - - the whole 1911/ AR-15/Glock "no tools required" thing, but then again - "10/22: who really cleans those things?"

Digging it so far.  Other projects to contend with , but ultimately will see how it does with cast handloads - 9mm and Glocks presenting their own challenges that will likely take precedence.

FUN! FUN! FUN! :)
WWJMBD?

"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee

Replies

  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,289 Senior Member
    I keep vacillating between the Ruger and a side charging Fox Trot Mike product, thanks for the range report hey.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,237 Senior Member

    I still like mine better :# Tho I have not shot it out to 100 yards yet I do get similar groups at 50 yards.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,449 Senior Member

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,632 Senior Member
    sakodude said:
    I still like mine better :# Tho I have not shot it out to 100 yards yet I do get similar groups at 50 yards.
    Those Marlins made a lot of sense when the Smith 59's whose mags they ran on WERE the ubiquitous duty pistol of the era...or at least they would have had we the understanding of terminal impacts we do today.  I always had a mild craving for the .45 that ran on 1911 magazines, but (1.) too poor and occupied by other projects at the time, and (2.), I think magazine disconnect safeties offended me even more back then than they do now.  Seems unlikely at this point. :(

    I'm pretty darned intrigued by the fact that it seems to want to be a 3 MOA rifle, probably held back only by my CQB optic and ammo never intended to be measured in MOA.  I doubt there's much call for a 1-6x scope with a ballistic holdover reticle for pistol ammo trajectories, but WTH - the old Winchester 1873's had optimistic ladder sights out to something like 600-800 yards for the .44-40, so why not?  Gonna try the gongs at their full 250 yards next time, just to see how much of a stretch it really is.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,449 Senior Member
    Go for it!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,933 Senior Member
    Good range report! Seems consistent whith what my buddies are doing here with theirs using local-production 115 & 147gr. FMJ ammo. Couple of them have tested theirs with mild cast reloads and supressors with Winchester 147gr. FMJs and in both cases rifles have worked OK so far.

    These, like the 10/22 are not target rifles but fun plinkers; will be interesting to see how long yours last uncleaned before seizing from the accumulated crud.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,632 Senior Member
    edited May 29 #8
    Zee said:
    Go for it!
    Probably.  I have a 1.5-5 that needs to go back into it's AR throw-lever mount.  Depends on how serious I want to get.  To really go all Matt Damon/The Martian/Science the **** out of this will require chronographing the same ammo and watching each impact to see if the fliers are ammo related or something else.  I know from my long experience with Winclean in .40 cal that the lead free primers are a bit. . .weird?. . . and the recoil impulse slightly sharper than the equivalent duty load.  Pistol ammo in rifles - exceeding design specifications is FUN!  :D

    Edit / Addition:  Considering that this turns your duty pistol's ammo into a fairly legitimate dispenser of harm out to 150-200 yards, Ruger's decision to ship it with an adapter to us massively plentiful, reliable, and affordable Glock mags was Einstein-level GENIUS.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,632 Senior Member
    Antonio said:

    These, like the 10/22 are not target rifles but fun plinkers; will be interesting to see how long yours last uncleaned before seizing from the accumulated crud.
    At some point my professional conscience will likely kick in and force me to clean it, but I think its operation will be largely in keeping with what I've seen from neglected Glocks.

    I recall one Glock that was turned in after seven years in the field and seven years of quals that came in to me with the orange factory grease still in the slide - it got issued and was never taken apart, never cleaned, never lubed.  A good bit of dry carbon film coating the areas closest to the chamber, but all parts moving and functioning fine.

    In contrast, it's the Glocks that get aggressively "wet scrubbed" with solvents by well-meaning but less-understanding operators that end up with slides full of sludgy black "toothpaste" that are wearing out the interface between the firing pin and firing pin safety because the accumulated crap won't let the parts move out of each other's way.

    In the case of this and many semi-auto .22's, we have A LOT of bolt mass that is probably going to self-clean a lot of the carbon film out of the way each time the bolt reciprocates.  Most of that carbon is going to be at the very front end of the bolt's travel range, so really probably not going to affect much.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member
    edited May 29 #10
    @Bigslug Consistent with my results though I haven't had time to wring it out lately. It is a bit heavy, that's my only quibble. Since I have the Ruger handgun, I have the Ruger magwell and will keep it that way. A few more mags would be nice and a metric ton of 9mm.

    What LOVE about it is that the controls all mimic more or less the M1 Carbine but I can move the charging handle and Mag release to the side I like. I even considered adding ambidextrous charging handles but then it wouldn't lie flat. 

    Very handy.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,566 Senior Member
    Its a compromise.
    Better than a handgun. Short of a rifle. Ammo that's not cannon grade, but is light, inexpensive, abundant, and operator freindly.

    It reminds me of a similar carbine often derided, but more often prolific. Likely for good reason.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,632 Senior Member
    Tugar,

    One could in theory commission one of those carbon fiber wrapped pencil barrels and attempt to construct a stock out of similar composites (difficult, due to the need to fit in the mag well components).  This one needs the bolt to be heavy, so no joy there.  Then there's still the problem of whatever else you want to add.

    Seven pounds seems almost like the sound barrier in reverse - it's a really hard number requiring some sexy engineering to get BELOW.  Since this is a blowback with a lot of reciprocating mass and a barrel length / gas volume that seems to make muzzle brakes pointless, dropping the weight might not be in the best interests of how the thing handles.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member
    edited May 30 #13
    The barrel isn't part of the reciprocating mass unless I am mistaken. Whether it would be worth the cost is another matter. Certainly would be interesting to shoot.


    Also there are only a few carbines that are sustainably lighter than the Ruger enough to justify the higher cost.  
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • bellcatbellcat Senior Member Posts: 1,954 Senior Member
    That looks like a great time at the range!
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain
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