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2022 Ford Maverick

TugarTugar Senior MemberPosts: 2,340 Senior Member
edited June 19 in Clubhouse #1
Ford is bringing back the Maverick name. It's a four door only fwd (awd is available) unibody pickup. The bed has features that are interesting. It can hold 1500 pounds, 18 sheets of 3/4 inch plywood, and comes with plugs ins for power tools. The base model is the 2.5L four hybrid with a CVT (pass) and a ton towing. 

There is a more powerful 2.0L that comes with an 8 speed automatic, Both versions can get the 4k pound towing, with better radiator, and such. 

The kicker to me is the base comes in at $20K. The 2.0L with the auto starts at $21,490 as the fwd. 

Shorter in length and height versus the Ranger. 
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill

Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,635 Senior Member
    Unibody referring to a pickup. . .weird.

    Ford making a pickup that's not a Ranger or an F-Series. . .also weird.

    Pricing enticing.  Maybe that indicates they aren't loading it down with electronic hand-massaging, butt-warming, link-to-your-telephoning, astro-navigating nonsense?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member
    It does have quite a few neat tricks. The rear seat is all storage. The doors have cubbies and can hold liter water bottles. There is an 8 inch infotainment screen and wifi. (I think i just heard Zorba scream) not much more than that. Apple and Android car sync standard.

    One that could see a ton of creative uses is the Ford Integrated Tether System, FITS for short, designed so owners can install a host of accessories inside the truck. But Ford is going one step further with FITS by allowing owners to 3D print their own accessories for the pickup.

    Ford is working to publicly publish the FITS slot geometry for open-source consumption, giving owners the capability to create and print their own accessories that go beyond what Ford offers. 


    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,381 Senior Member
    Should sell like hot cakes. That and the new Bronco. 

    I'll stick with my F150. 


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    edited June 20 #5
    Front wheel drive, unibody, double cab. Pass, pass, and pass. Never mind the stupid electronics and lack of a manual transmission.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,568 Senior Member
    Sadly the manual transmission in this country is about dead.  CVT is garbage.

    I am not opposed to the concept of the vehicle.  In reality it would probably suit the needs of 80-90% of the city people that buy a truck to use for occasional truck stuff.  I can also see it being used in a lot of fleets.

    Being produced in the same facility as the Escape and Bronco Sport that already cant keep up does spell doom for production and actual deliveries though.  Too bad its made in Mexico when it could be made here.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,594 Senior Member
    If it was made here. It would cost 41K instead of 21
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,981 Senior Member
    Not enough towing capacity.
    My Tacoma has 6.5k and it's BARELY enough for what I need to tow. As bad as I hate full sized P/Us, probably going to have to bite the bullet and get one when I replace the "taco"
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    mitdr774 said:
    Sadly the manual transmission in this country is about dead.  CVT is garbage.

    Oh I know - you don't want to get me started on the subject of effete Americans and their wussified vehicles.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Not enough towing capacity.
    My Tacoma has 6.5k and it's BARELY enough for what I need to tow. As bad as I hate full sized P/Us, probably going to have to bite the bullet and get one when I replace the "taco"
    The Ranger can tow about 7700 and so can certain models of the Colorado. The new Dakota is on the way at some point but no details yet. 

    I get that the Maverick is not for everyone but mini-trucks are to me needed. Like mitdr774 said, this is for the masses that need a small truck that can actually fit in a garage. The Ranger is about the size of the F150 from not that many years ago. Full size trucks are just too massive anymore. Might as well drive a Suburban. 

    Zorba, I agree with the assessment of the manual but the sad fact is that it is going the way of the dodo bird. Done right I have no issue with a GOOD automatic. Plus is the other option is a CVT....I'll take the auto. CVT's aren't fixed they are replaced. Umm..no.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,568 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    If it was made here. It would cost 41K instead of 21
    Where is the Ranger made?  This wouldnt be priced above the Ranger.  Mexican and American made vehicles sell for the same price.  Look at a Chevy truck with a VIN that starts with a 3 compared to one that starts with a 1.  No real difference in price compared to what you are getting.  A Mexican Ram 3500 sold for the same price as an American Ram 3500 as well.  Its all about lower labor cost and more profit at the expense of workers and consumers.  Ever price out a Buick Envision?  Costs more than a North American built Equinox even though its made in China.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member

    Michigan
    Ford Rangers are assembled at Ford's factory in Wayne, Michigan. Which explains the higher price. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    Tugar said:
    Zorba, I agree with the assessment of the manual but the sad fact is that it is going the way of the dodo bird. Done right I have no issue with a GOOD automatic. Plus is the other option is a CVT....I'll take the auto. CVT's aren't fixed they are replaced. Umm..no.
    {Insert rant here about effete Americans and their love affair with automatics}

    Yea, I'd take an auto over a CVT also - unless said CVT is on a mini-bike.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,340 Senior Member
    In a perfect world, I would see this a bit different. I have no issues with the unibody since it's not meant to be towing 10,000 pounds. But yes I could see two versions, a single cab or extended cab with a bigger bed and I like the idea of a four door for trips with more than two people.

     The only computers should be in charge of the EFI for fuel efficiency and everything else manual. No power windows, no power door locks. You want bluetooth and wifi? Options for money. A simple $100-200 radio can handle wifi, bluetooth. 

    Far too much crap in cars. That Zorba, you and I are in complete agreement. You have to have FI in today's cars. They run better, less tuning and use far less gas.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    I agree that FI is a good thing. However, it doesn't have to involve a damn computer - but even if it does, that's no excuse for the rest of the computerized crap.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,862 Senior Member
    It doesn't meet my current vehicle needs (I spend a LOT of time in the mountains), but I like the idea personally.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,568 Senior Member
    Tugar said:

    Michigan
    Ford Rangers are assembled at Ford's factory in Wayne, Michigan. Which explains the higher price. 
    The Ranger and Bronco come out of the same plant.  Used to be the Focus plant before it was moved to Mexico (price didnt change when they moved it to Mexico either).  The Escape, Bronco Sport, and the Maverick will all be built in the same plant in Mexico.  Assembly location has little to do with the price.  Manufactures might claim it does, but if you look at shared platform vehicles that are produced in different countries you will see through the lie.  The price point between the Blazer (Mexico) and Acadia (USA) is what would be expected between a Chevy and GMC on the same platform.  The manufactures charge the higher price because people pay it, especially right now.  
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,348 Senior Member
    Definitely NOT a real truck. However.... it will do 90% of what 90% of the average George's actually do with a truck.

    They are going to sell out for a year or more
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Those of you still using the word “built” when talking about cars need a time warp adjustment.  

    Cars are not built anywhere by manufacturers (that name needs to go away too) anymore, they are assembled from thousands of parts and sub-assemblies (like transmissions and headlamps) sourced globally and shared by MANY platforms.  You can count on one hand the number of companies that “make” car ACs or entertainment systems or “computers”.  And most aren’t “made” in the USA.

    There is no such thing as American vs. Foreign car unless you count the address of corporate HQs.  No cars are being “built” anywhere.

    Assembly costs are not insignificant but they pale in comparison to the cost of logistics needed to keep these assembly plants going.  For every guy tightening a nut there a hundreds of people globally working on making sure the right nut is right by him, on time, when his hand reaches out for it.  And a whole run of Escalades can come to a screeching halt for lack of a bag of plastic snaps and pile massive cost on to the run.

    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    Have you looked at one of the boards?  Laughable...   My socks are smarter...

    That's why all the manufacturers are basically giving all the entertainment and communications functions to the user equipment (smart phone/tablet) and just running a relatively dumb display with BASIC features like an FM tuner built in.  Even the car performance processing and sensor system is relatively simplistic and pretty OLD school.

    I'll be ordering a nice Apple CarPlay unit for my Jeep as soon as I figure out which one I want but you can get some as low as $300 and change.  A high end one with really good sound can go as high as just over $1k but then I'd have to spend anther $500 on upgraded speakers to appreciate the sound and the Jeep is so noisy I don't really think it's worth it.

    On the lighter side of tech use to make my life convenient, I signed and notarized a document for my company while driving this morning using a new app on my iPhone!  Was quite the time saver!  You actually get to do a video call with a notary public and sign electronically.  Very cool...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    Have you looked at one of the boards?  Laughable...   My socks are smarter...

    That's why all the manufacturers are basically giving all the entertainment and communications functions to the user equipment (smart phone/tablet) and just running a relatively dumb display with BASIC features like an FM tuner built in.  Even the car performance processing and sensor system is relatively simplistic and pretty OLD school.

    I'll be ordering a nice Apple CarPlay unit for my Jeep as soon as I figure out which one I want but you can get some as low as $300 and change.  A high end one with really good sound can go as high as just over $1k but then I'd have to spend anther $500 on upgraded speakers to appreciate the sound and the Jeep is so noisy I don't really think it's worth it.

    On the lighter side of tech use to make my life convenient, I signed and notarized a document for my company while driving this morning using a new app on my iPhone!  Was quite the time saver!  You actually get to do a video call with a notary public and sign electronically.  Very cool...
    No doubt whatsoever! Which just underscores the reason I don't want anything to do with this nonsense. Online document review/signing is da bomb though, even though I wouldn't want to do it while driving or on a  smartphone - but you already knew that! ;)
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    knitepoet said:
    Not enough towing capacity.
    My Tacoma has 6.5k and it's BARELY enough for what I need to tow. As bad as I hate full sized P/Us, probably going to have to bite the bullet and get one when I replace the "taco"
    Paul, Toyota is coming out with a new design of the tundra.  Only been the exact same truck for 10 years.  I saw a pic of one, fugly IMO but I'm sure it will sell well.
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    Have you looked at one of the boards?  Laughable...   My socks are smarter...

    That's why all the manufacturers are basically giving all the entertainment and communications functions to the user equipment (smart phone/tablet) and just running a relatively dumb display with BASIC features like an FM tuner built in.  Even the car performance processing and sensor system is relatively simplistic and pretty OLD school.

    I'll be ordering a nice Apple CarPlay unit for my Jeep as soon as I figure out which one I want but you can get some as low as $300 and change.  A high end one with really good sound can go as high as just over $1k but then I'd have to spend anther $500 on upgraded speakers to appreciate the sound and the Jeep is so noisy I don't really think it's worth it.

    On the lighter side of tech use to make my life convenient, I signed and notarized a document for my company while driving this morning using a new app on my iPhone!  Was quite the time saver!  You actually get to do a video call with a notary public and sign electronically.  Very cool...
    In reality, underwood electronics is considered the harshest environment there is according to IPC.  More harsh than planes or even space.  That's why they encapsulate the boards in potting compound and why they look the way they do.  If you are going to encapsulate a printed circuit board, spacing needs to be doubled or more so what could be cell phone sized, triples in size.  Also why they don't last, the elements and vibration and shock the absorb.  Electronics really are not made for that long term.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    edited June 25 #27
    BamaakII said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    Have you looked at one of the boards?  Laughable...   My socks are smarter...

    That's why all the manufacturers are basically giving all the entertainment and communications functions to the user equipment (smart phone/tablet) and just running a relatively dumb display with BASIC features like an FM tuner built in.  Even the car performance processing and sensor system is relatively simplistic and pretty OLD school.

    I'll be ordering a nice Apple CarPlay unit for my Jeep as soon as I figure out which one I want but you can get some as low as $300 and change.  A high end one with really good sound can go as high as just over $1k but then I'd have to spend anther $500 on upgraded speakers to appreciate the sound and the Jeep is so noisy I don't really think it's worth it.

    On the lighter side of tech use to make my life convenient, I signed and notarized a document for my company while driving this morning using a new app on my iPhone!  Was quite the time saver!  You actually get to do a video call with a notary public and sign electronically.  Very cool...
    In reality, underwood electronics is considered the harshest environment there is according to IPC.  More harsh than planes or even space.  That's why they encapsulate the boards in potting compound and why they look the way they do.  If you are going to encapsulate a printed circuit board, spacing needs to be doubled or more so what could be cell phone sized, triples in size.  Also why they don't last, the elements and vibration and shock the absorb.  Electronics really are not made for that long term.
    I understand having to protect the components, it's absolutely a horrible environment, but the actual components are OOOOLLLLLDDDD tech.  You start with stuff that is 2-3 generations old when the board is getting plugged in.  And I understand that after all, unlike a phone or laptop they are designing for a 10 year lifespan and unlike personal devices most of these will NEVER see a software or firmware upgrade.

    This by the way was a heated debate topic in many high level meetings with automakers.  I always pushed for easily replaceable/upgradeable, external device intelligence and utilizing consumer devices to the fullest...  but there are jobs that need to be protected at GM and frankly at the highest level of these companies most of the management is REALLY technology ignorant.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 379 Member
    A lot of 2 or 3 gen old tech is the same as the new tech, they just make it do the same thing in smaller packages and obsolete the older package forcing you into a redesign.  You know, the microsoft/apple business model.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,470 Senior Member
    edited June 26 #29
    GunNut said:
    BamaakII said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:

    GunNut said:
    And technology is not the biggest cost factor either.  Most cars have much less intelligence in them than your average cheap laptop, and what’s in them is usually bargain bin 3 generations old because what made it into assembly today was designed 5 years ago or longer.
    That's totally true - until you need to replace the damn thing. Then that $10 computer costs $2,500 as it can only by purchased from the CarCo in question.

    True, but on the other part of that equation, the only computer I’ve ever had to replace was on a Nissan Sentra that got caught up in a salt water flood and the was over 20 years ago.  The car woke up right after it was replaced and I drove another 80,000 on that car (it was my daily beater car) without issues until I gave it away with well over 100,000 on it.
    That's good. I've had to replace two computers in my time, both were fortunately under warranty, thank Goddess.
    Have you looked at one of the boards?  Laughable...   My socks are smarter...

    That's why all the manufacturers are basically giving all the entertainment and communications functions to the user equipment (smart phone/tablet) and just running a relatively dumb display with BASIC features like an FM tuner built in.  Even the car performance processing and sensor system is relatively simplistic and pretty OLD school.

    I'll be ordering a nice Apple CarPlay unit for my Jeep as soon as I figure out which one I want but you can get some as low as $300 and change.  A high end one with really good sound can go as high as just over $1k but then I'd have to spend anther $500 on upgraded speakers to appreciate the sound and the Jeep is so noisy I don't really think it's worth it.

    On the lighter side of tech use to make my life convenient, I signed and notarized a document for my company while driving this morning using a new app on my iPhone!  Was quite the time saver!  You actually get to do a video call with a notary public and sign electronically.  Very cool...
    In reality, underwood electronics is considered the harshest environment there is according to IPC.  More harsh than planes or even space.  That's why they encapsulate the boards in potting compound and why they look the way they do.  If you are going to encapsulate a printed circuit board, spacing needs to be doubled or more so what could be cell phone sized, triples in size.  Also why they don't last, the elements and vibration and shock the absorb.  Electronics really are not made for that long term.
    I understand having to protect the components, it's absolutely a horrible environment, but the actual components are OOOOLLLLLDDDD tech.  You start with stuff that is 2-3 generations old when the board is getting plugged in.  And I understand that after all, unlike a phone or laptop they are designing for a 10 year lifespan and unlike personal devices most of these will NEVER see a software or firmware upgrade.

    This by the way was a heated debate topic in many high level meetings with automakers.  I always pushed for easily replaceable/upgradeable, external device intelligence and utilizing consumer devices to the fullest...  but there are jobs that need to be protected at GM and frankly at the highest level of these companies most of the management is REALLY technology ignorant.
    I pretty much agree with GN here, although I expect to get at least 10 years out of a laptop or desktop computer - and I'd certainly expect an absolute minimum of 20 years out of something put into a car. My expectations are probably un-realistic given the "microsoft/apple business model" - especially Apple - as @BamaakII so rightly points out. But that's what I expect/want. I usually get around 15 out of a "regular" computer.

    Any kind of system used in a harsh environment is never the current state of the art.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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