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.44 XTP 240 gr question…

Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
Will 240 gr XTPs expand at .44 SPL velocities?  If they do I want to load some for my 624 scoped 6” for hunting…
I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
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Replies

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,869 Senior Member
    Sorry, but I can't help you there
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Thanks anyway Ernie.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    Have not tried them that slow. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    If you can find them, I really like the 200gr Gold Dot in the .44 Spl. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    Which reminds me, I’ve never taken a deer with a .44 Spl!!  I now have a project for hunting season. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,748 Senior Member
    edited August 5 #7
    Check for data that has 1,000 fps. That's usually the magic number. 

    Then you're next up for water jug or wet newsprint/ballistic gel science.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,291 Senior Member

    They have published load data for it but no first hand opinion on effectiveness.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 22,224 Senior Member
    I haven't tested them, but if the data Sako posted is realistic, I seriously doubt they'll expand
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,631 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    If you can find them, I really like the 200gr Gold Dot in the .44 Spl. 
    Agreed.  I’ve fired them into Gel with my Bulldog. Impressive performance 
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Check for data that has 1,000 fps. That's usually the magic number. 

    Then you're next up for water jug or wet newsprint/ballistic gel science.
    I don’t think I can get them to 1,000 FPS staying within published loads though Elmer Keith blew well past those while experimenting developing the .44 mag.  It is a modern stainless gun but then again I don’t know that I feel like beating it up… 

    This just might not be the right bullet for the application.  I have a buttload if plated 210gr SWC I can push without leading.  I might try those instead….   I’ll see if I can find some if the 200 gr gold dots.  I actually have some commercial ammo loaded with them so that’s an option too.  I really don’t intend to go past 50-75 yards or so with this gun.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    If you can find them, I really like the 200gr Gold Dot in the .44 Spl. 
    Hummmm, I think I have some commercial loaded ammo with that bullet.  I have to check and then check accuracy from the 624.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    Digging around the web, I can only find older info that indicates 240 gr. XTP .44 slugs have a minimum expansion velocity of 900 fps.  I didn't find it or Hornady's website, so it appears they've removed it.  If I remember correctly, XTPs aren't noted for spectacular expansion: more in the adequate category.  They do have great accuracy.

    OTOH, loaded with a SWC bullet or even a large meplat flatpoint bullety, you might not need expansion, as the slug is already 1 1/2 times the diameter of a .308 bullet...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Digging around the web, I can only find older info that indicates 240 gr. XTP .44 slugs have a minimum expansion velocity of 900 fps.  I didn't find it or Hornady's website, so it appears they've removed it.  If I remember correctly, XTPs aren't noted for spectacular expansion: more in the adequate category.  They do have great accuracy.

    OTOH, loaded with a SWC bullet or even a large meplat flatpoint bullety, you might not need expansion, as the slug is already 1 1/2 times the diameter of a .308 bullet...
    There is that.  Like you mention, my interest in the XTP is accuracy.  My experience with them with my old 300gr .45 Colt Ruger only loads was awesome.  Maybe I’ll just save them for a good .44 mag load.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,748 Senior Member
    edited August 5 #15
    Picking up on what Elk Creek said in the revolver thread. One can generally get more speed from cast lead bullets with less pressure than jacketed. I can testify that non-expanding slugs kill very well. Although mine were 50cal.

    I have never seen anything negative said about the Speer Gold Dot bullets either.

    Edit
    Id guess that gun is to be extremely accurate with most anything. Based on my experience with N-Frame S&W's.


  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Picking up on what Elk Creek said in the revolver thread. One can generally get more speed from cast lead bullets with less pressure than jacketed. I can testify that non-expanding slugs kill very well. Although mine were 50cal.

    I have never seen anything negative said about the Speer Gold Dot bullets either.

    Edit
    Id guess that gun is to be extremely accurate with most anything. Based on my experience with N-Frame S&W's.


    I bought the gun last year but have not gotten past some cursory testing of it yet.  I have high expectations of this handgun because the 624 in general is recognized as one of S&W most inherently accurate revolvers ever.  Big Chief was a huge fan of his 2 examples.  This one happens to have a very nice Leupold true handgun 2X scope mounted on it and while that won’t put me in Zee’s and Ernies league of SPs I want to make sure I can make the best of what I have when I take this to the field hopefully this year.

    Like you said, at the end of the day it’s still going to make a large caliber hole (most probably two) so I’m not terribly worried, but I want to make use of the bullets I have to best possible application and it sounds like I’d be wasting the XTPs on the .44 Special.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    The XTPs are only wasted if you're looking at a hunting bullet or for expansion.  I load 125 gr. XTP hollowpoints in .38 Special atop Bullseye.  I doubt they'll expand, but they are very, very accurate.  Pricier for plinking, but good for seeing if you're still up to the task, accuracy-wise.

    As an aside, good on you for wanting to hunt with a .44 Special.  A lot of folks would tote a Magnum since deer have become armor-plated.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    If you go with a non-expanding cast bullet, hit bone/shoulder. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,748 Senior Member
    Adding to what bream said. I've loaded XTP'S in 45 Colt at slow speeds to use for paper. They're incredibly accurate, and I think worth it. They're also good for scrubbing small amounts of lead from the forcing cone when shooting cast bullets.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    edited August 5 #20
    The XTPs are only wasted if you're looking at a hunting bullet or for expansion.  I load 125 gr. XTP hollowpoints in .38 Special atop Bullseye.  I doubt they'll expand, but they are very, very accurate.  Pricier for plinking, but good for seeing if you're still up to the task, accuracy-wise.

    As an aside, good on you for wanting to hunt with a .44 Special.  A lot of folks would tote a Magnum since deer have become armor-plated.
    Adding to what bream said. I've loaded XTP'S in 45 Colt at slow speeds to use for paper. They're incredibly accurate, and I think worth it. They're also good for scrubbing small amounts of lead from the forcing cone when shooting cast bullets.
    I have tons of good .44 bullets to use on paper.  I was looking for a decent hunting load and I know everyone likes XTPs but I could not, for the life of me, remember if the they had decent expansion at lower speeds.   I just found 17 rounds of CCI loaded with 200gr Glod Dots and 25 rounds of old Winchester 200gr Silvertips.  I think whichever groups better might be my first try on a handgun deer this year.  Both are SD loads but should do fine on medium game.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    If you go with a non-expanding cast bullet, hit bone/shoulder. 
    Absolutely!  I might load a few of my 210gr plated SWCs on the hot side just to play with them, to shoot for a through the shoulder hit, for science.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    edited August 6 #22
    Well, I have 100 new Starline .44 SPL Nickel cases coming in from Midway on Monday.  While I wait I’m going to play with some loads with the once fired brass I already have.  

    While I was on it I ordered a new Marbles .450” front post sight for the Marlin ‘94 32-20.  That should solve my elevation issues.  I also loaded 50 rounds of 32-20 with that Remington SP load it likes so much.  That’ll be my hunting load for this winter.  Not a bad day!
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    That’s the brass I use. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    That’s the brass I use. 
    👍👍👍
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • RaftermanRafterman New Member Posts: 276 Member
    For those of you that want to use a XTP style bullet for target practice try the HAP - Hornady Action Pistol. Same bullet but not designed to expand. Of course they're probably not going to be easy to find.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Has anyone tried the .44 200 gr XTP at under 1,000fps?  I might have found some but will pass if the expansion is similar to the 240.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,501 Senior Member
    edited August 6 #27
    While I was browsing around the web thinking about your question, I came across this article from Guns and Ammo.

    The author uses a M24-3 and some of his loads are 200 grain bullets at over 1000 fps. He claims reliable expansion even from 240 grain XTPs when using near max loads.
    I guess, if you're curious enough, you could make a few test loads and whack so evil water gallons, for science!
    You don't actually have to go to a max load for testing purposes.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    Science!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    Hummmmmmm…….
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,790 Senior Member
    I may use this gun to take a deer with the .44 Spl. 

    Only 200gr GD Handloads I have are loaded with Trail Boss for shooting in my CA. I’ll have to make some more handloads with more balls or use either the Blazer or Speer factory ammo I have. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 836 Senior Member
    edited August 6 #31
    So here’s the quandary.  The loads I’m finding with H-4227 (a powder I’ve had great results with) are anemic with a 240gr bullet only producing about 700fps at 13,300 CUP.

    NOW, the same powder as n the .44 mag will do 1,177 at 36,800 CUP.

    The difference between the 624 and my 629 Mountain gun is literally cylinder and barrel length.  I think .44 SPL loads are anemic because if the many old guns chambered for them.  I know Elmer Keith used to overload 1950s N frames to extremes past modern N frame loads.

    I’m thinking I can split the difference between the two loads 14.8 vs 23.1 and go to the mag starting load 19.3 at 22,600 CUP for 921 FPS and still have a pretty safe margin of error.

    Im also thinking to value accuracy over expansion with this project…

    Thoughts?
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
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