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.45 Colt - Charter Arms Bulldog

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  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Very curious to see how they do with that high a launch speed and zero nose taper.  There's a diameter/speed matrix at play here I'd like to learn more about. I know the duty gun and toasty .45-70 effects pretty well - - this is interesting middle ground.

    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Very curious to see how they do with that high a launch speed and zero nose taper.  There's a diameter/speed matrix at play here I'd like to learn more about. I know the duty gun and toasty .45-70 effects pretty well - - this is interesting middle ground.

    Ok, which bullet are you talking about?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Your full diameter wadcutter at 1000-ish fps specifically.

    I figure if you're penetrating more than 6 jugs (I have little doubt) and managing to catastrophically rupture 5 before it settles into perforating the rest, you've got some really potent ju-ju.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    edited October 2021 #95
    Zee said:
    What you guys think of this bullet?


    I’ve got to order some more of the 240gr HBWC and thought about ordering some of these too. 

    I like those bullets. They look like a lot of fun. I see potential there. You could even use them in the Ruger if you order them in hard cast.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 3,008 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    What you guys think of this bullet?


    I’ve got to order some more of the 240gr HBWC and thought about ordering some of these too. 
    I like those.  Might have to order some to play with the .44 Spl!
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,551 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    What you guys think of this bullet?


    I’ve got to order some more of the 240gr HBWC and thought about ordering some of these too. 
    I like those.  Might have to order some to play with the .44 Spl!
    was just looking there and thinking the 200 gr full wadcutters would be fun in the 44 spl.
    There is a 205gr for the 41 mag that looks interesting as well.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 3,008 Senior Member
    NICE!
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    The 200gr FBHP arrived from Matt’s yesterday. 

    Very good looking bullet, as all of his are. I had high hopes and loaded them with 9.6gr Unique. 

    Velocity was 952 fps and right about my target goal of 1,000 fps. But, POI was about 7” low and more than I’d like at 10 yards. 

    Seems all the light Bullets are doing that with this gun. The heavies strike close to POA but the lights all dip low. 
    Gonna try loading these Bullets over Trail Boss and see if the recoil impulse improves the POI. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    It’s gotta be #1 because these are moving slower than my heavies. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    you're probably going to have to decide which you want hitting your POA and correct your sights accordingly
    I am. I’m just researching all my options first. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Been out for a week - settling back into the routine.

    Re POI:  I think - probably like your Bond derringer - that your Charter Arms is likely calibrated around cowboy spec loads of roughly 255 grains at roughly 950-1000 fps.  At least so far as CA bothers to calibrate anything.

    Best way to test this theory - I think - is to order up the small boxes of Matt's 260 grain Keith (the old Ideal/Lyman 452424/454424) and 280 grain SWC (another classic - the RCBS SAA) and see what it takes to get the gun hitting to the sights.  You could possibly get there by slowing the 250 grainers down, but I know that's not what you're after.

    While they aren't the full-patch wadcutters you've zeroed in on, they're both still packing large, ugly meplats that will induce a serious case of hemorrhagic fever.  Accuracy first - gooey. squishy side effects second.   Per my early "put down a cow/horse" comments, more mass & extra penetration will never be a bad thing for what you plan to use the gun for.  And I can just about guarantee a certain Redhawk will end up loving the same load.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Not a semi-wadcutter fan. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    Just out of curiosity, could you do the exact same test with this ammo at 15 yards. I'm curious to see were the bullets land. I'm just trying to get some idea where the heck CA puts their zero... If they even have one. 🤣
    I understand if you want to adjust these guns for 10 yards but I'm curious what CA thinks the zero should be, if they think about this sort of thing at all.
    With at least two data reference points I can plot a probable trajectory.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    edited October 2021 #105
    Spk said:
    Just out of curiosity, could you do the exact same test with this ammo at 15 yards. I'm curious to see were the bullets land. I'm just trying to get some idea where the heck CA puts their zero... If they even have one. 🤣
    I understand if you want to adjust these guns for 10 yards but I'm curious what CA thinks the zero should be, if they think about this sort of thing at all.
    With at least two data reference points I can plot a probable trajectory.
    When they worked in my .357 Mag, they test tired at 8 yards. 
    I tend to shoot these types of guns at 10 yards because of their short sight radius, intended use, and the fact I often test on steel targets and I don’t want to be closer than 10 yards to steel. Even then, I sometimes catch splash back. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Getting ready to load up the Trail Boss attempts. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Gonna shoot one round first. Check the speed and POI to see if it’s worth loading the other 2. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Nope. Still very low. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Not a semi-wadcutter fan. 
    Some gnarly WFN's from these folks: https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-280gr-wfn-gc/ 
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Zee said:
    Not a semi-wadcutter fan. 
    Some gnarly WFN's from these folks: https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-colt-lbt-280gr-wfn-gc/ 
    I agree. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Ground down the front sight with my precision sight grinder. 



    And now the 250gr Gold Dots at hitting almost POA!!!

    So, all my 240/250gr Bullets should be pretty much POA/POI now. And the lighter ones about 3+/- inches low. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Painting the front sight now. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    How much did you grind off?
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    How much did you grind off?
    Enough for now? 😁
    I admit I screwed up and didn’t measure the start. I realized that a few thousands into it. 
    But, I did count serrations. And I took off 5 serrations. 


    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Can you return the removed portion of the sight for one more comprehensive comparison?

     :D 

    Who knew Charter Arms and old cartridges could be so much fun?
    :-)
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    edited November 2021 #117

     ...
    Who knew Charter Arms and old cartridges could be so much fun?
    :-)
    That should be their tagline.
    Charter Arms... Some adjustments required. 🤣

    Dang, now I want one.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    They are rough. But, they work. 
    And, they offer what others don’t. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,464 Senior Member
    edited November 2021 #119
    I have 4 and while dissatisfied in their appearance for fit/finish………their performance has yet to disappoint. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I have 4 and while dissatisfied in their appearance for fit/finish………their performance has yet to disappoint. 
    It seems Gun Tests had the same issue with the barrel not being screwed in all the way with the Pit Bull.
    It doesn't really bother me since I modify my own guns anyway, I like a project and those guns are affordable.

    So they need some adjustments, I can live with that. 👍


    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,327 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    They are rough. But, they work. 
    And, they offer what others don’t. 
    This is one small part of why I want to travel back in time and slap most of the gun writers of the mid-20th Century upside the head.

    We had a VERY practical thing going with the .40 to .45 caliber rounds of the late 1800's and early 1900's that were generally lobbing 200 to 280 grains at 600 to 1000 fps.  They didn't kick much, and they worked.

    Then came the velocity Kool Aid that turned many of those rounds into things you wouldn't want to shoot out of these little revolvers.  Stupid Humans won't want a Special if there's a Magnum to be had - - even if it isn't needed. :#
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
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