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.45 Colt - Charter Arms Bulldog

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Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,324 Senior Member
    No disagreement on any of that.  The question to me is where that magic happens.  There's a point between the road-killed coyote hit at 20 mph lying in a single lump and one hit at 120 mph landing in 150 unidentifiable chunks.

    Is it incremental - as in 60mph disintegrates the coyote in 75 sort of identifiable chunks. . .

    or is it more of a sound barrier kind of thing, where a 70 mph impact looks much like the 20 mph one, but at 90 - hoo boy! ?

    My reasoning is somewhat akin to that of the low recoil shotgun slug - when you're already dealing in kilotons, you have to ask what positive benefit megatons gains for you.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    ...
    From what I’ve been playing around with, the 950-1,050 fps threshold opens up a whole new world from everything lesser. 

    I think you can hit that goal with a few powders. For example, Hodgdon lists a loading using CFE Pistol that breaks 1000 fps using a 250 LRNFP and it comes in at 13,000 PSI, that's safely below the 14k SAAMI spec. Of course, Hodgdon uses a 7.25" barrel so you're own velocity will be lower.
    Because I know you like the stout loads, I looked up the SAAMI specs on Proof loads. On page 182 of the downloadable pdf, it says for Maximum Average Pressures below 15k the Minimum Proof pressure is 140% of the MAP and Maximum Proof pressure is 155%. So that's 19.6k and 21.7k respectively.
    Try not to go into Proof load territory, leave that to your Ruger 😲😉🤣

    As always, looking forward to what you come up with.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    Btw, here's some load recipes to consider. You might find something useful.


    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    New grips came in today. Kinda like them. Quite comfortable so far and I think they’ll take care of the web bite. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,041 Senior Member
    ooh!  I may have to invest in some of those for the 44Spl.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    Loaded up the 250gr Matt’s WC this morning. Started with a book max of 9.0gr Unique. Hoping for 900 fps minimum. 

    That is just a COOL looking bullet. 
    But, unfortunately I didn’t reach my target velocity. So, I decided to stray off the reservation…….and put 9.5gr Unique in the case. Got closer, but not quite there. Accuracy and POA/POI were nice, though. 

    I might round it up to 9.6gr Unique and call it good. I doubt much that I’d likely shoot with this gun/load will stop a 250gr WC at close to 900 fps. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    That should do it. That's a pretty stiff load. Hope the gun can handle it.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 2,980 Senior Member
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,324 Senior Member
    NICE!

    20 grains less, at 45 fps less, with 0.11" less meplat is a nine-jugger.  I think you have adequate catastrophe coming out of your faucet.

    You've equaled the speed the most recent Lyman manual achieved for that weight of bullet by using 9.0 grains of Unique - out of a 7.5" Blackhawk or their universal receiver that probably lacks a cylinder gap - they don't specify..

    Unfortunately, that manual has some really annoying gaps in what they do and don't list for chamber pressures.  I'm clueless at converting how reduced volume would equate to more pressure and increase volume to less - best I can infer is that you're probably playing with an entry level .44 Mag equivalent for Unique.  High teens to 20,000 CUP - - -maybe????

    Alliant website list a single Unique load - 9.5 grains at 941fps out of a 5.5" tube, but isn't saying min, max, or pressures.

    Also annoying is that starting loads for .454 Casull in that manual are well above that  - and ramp up in pressure dramatically - so I don't have any feel for how the curve would progress.

    Unless you feel like blowing up a Charter Arms in the name of Science, I'd say you're in a good place. :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Something that can be done as a matter of scrutiny. Keep an eye on how much is being spewed out the cylinder/forcing cone gap. Should be easy to see the fouling against the contrast of the stainless finish. Any contrast between the max load versus the lighter loads may offer help in the decision process.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    Two Wadcutters
    2 Hollowpoints
    1 Snake Shot

    That load out should get me past most anything I’ll meet at the ranch. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Two Wadcutters
    2 Hollowpoints
    1 Snake Shot

    That load out should get me past most anything I’ll meet at the ranch. 
    That...
    And a fist full of dollars because you never know what the day might bring.

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    That should do it. That's a pretty stiff load. Hope the gun can handle it.
    It’s not a target or plinking load. I only made 20 of them.  Strictly a “get out of jail free” card.  Or a bind. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    NICE!

    20 grains less, at 45 fps less, with 0.11" less meplat is a nine-jugger.  I think you have adequate catastrophe coming out of your faucet.

    Yeah, I’m not even going to shoot this load into jugs. Either I won’t stop it, it’ll veer off course, or I’ll waste a bunch of jugs to tell me it would go through a person or deer anyway. 

    You've equaled the speed the most recent Lyman manual achieved for that weight of bullet by using 9.0 grains of Unique - out of a 7.5" Blackhawk or their universal receiver that probably lacks a cylinder gap - they don't specify..

    That’s the manual I used for all these loads. 

    Unfortunately, that manual has some really annoying gaps in what they do and don't list for chamber pressures.  I'm clueless at converting how reduced volume would equate to more pressure and increase volume to less - best I can infer is that you're probably playing with an entry level .44 Mag equivalent for Unique.  High teens to 20,000 CUP - - -maybe????

    Alliant website list a single Unique load - 9.5 grains at 941fps out of a 5.5" tube, but isn't saying min, max, or pressures.

    Also annoying is that starting loads for .454 Casull in that manual are well above that  - and ramp up in pressure dramatically - so I don't have any feel for how the curve would progress.

    Unless you feel like blowing up a Charter Arms in the name of Science, I'd say you're in a good place. :D
    Yeah. I’m done. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 2,980 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    edited November 2021 #168
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I appreciate you trying to maintain my Roguishly Good Looks. 😘
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,041 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I appreciate you trying to maintain my Roguishly Good Looks. 😘
    Gotta keep you with all ten fingers and eleven toes
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    9.75 fingers. 
    Meat grinder.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    Yep. I should be GTG w/ 9.6gr under a 250gr WC. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 2,980 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I appreciate you trying to maintain my Roguishly Good Looks. 😘
    Gotta keep you with all ten fingers and eleven toes
    HE’S DOWN TO ELEVEN TOES!?!!?!?! 😵‍💫
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,456 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I appreciate you trying to maintain my Roguishly Good Looks. 😘
    Gotta keep you with all ten fingers and eleven toes
    HE’S DOWN TO ELEVEN TOES!?!!?!?! 😵‍💫
    How do you count webbed feet?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 2,980 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Zee said:
    Zee said:
    PLEASE BE Careful!!!!!  Unique is an “interesting” powder that is safe until its NOT and it’s a sharp line between the two.  It’s great for short barreled guns because it’s such a violent fast burner and the pressure spike is FAST.  But not a great hot-rod powder.

    Almost every time I’ve learned of a gun becoming a hand grenade it has been a Unique load.   For a while it had a reputation of just exploding randomly for no good reason at all, especially in large cases where the typical load is a low volume.  Many theories out there about folks screwing up and double charging a case, but no factual explanations.

    It tends to soot up cases because the lower target loads don’t expand the brass to seal the chamber so my goto rule for many years was go up in .1 grain increments until the cases came out clean and STOP.
    The cases aren’t sticking and the primers are fine. Hell, even the recoil ain’t bad. 
    I used the Lyman Manual for vintage and replica .45 Colt loads. So, I’m pretty sure the book max loads are anemic. 
    👍👍👍Hey I’m just trying to watch out for a friend.  It’s not the kind of powder that gives you a lot of clues that you’re on the edge.  
    I appreciate you trying to maintain my Roguishly Good Looks. 😘
    Gotta keep you with all ten fingers and eleven toes
    HE’S DOWN TO ELEVEN TOES!?!!?!?! 😵‍💫
    How do you count webbed feet?
    Lumps between the webs…. 😬
    I’m baaaaaaaaack… 😬
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,739 Senior Member
    edited November 2021 #175
    Zee said:
    9.75 fingers. 
    Meat grinder.

    I heard you lost it in Fancy house... Out in the West Texas town of El Paso...

    A fist full of dollars may have been involved. 💃
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

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