Need a Jeep savvy mechanic...

Wambli Ska

I love my Jeep dearly and in general it runs GREAT!!!  It’s literally everything I wanted and a bag of chips.  I’ve already put 5k miles on it with zero issues BUT, there are two things that have just popped up.

First when I release the clutch while he car is in neutral I get this rhythmic light clacking sound that goes at the same speed as the RPMs on the engine.  If I put even light pressure on the clutch pedal it immediately goes away.  Sound literally like something is loose.  Thoughts?  It is not really constant and seems to disappear, or at least lighten up after the car warms up.

And the most recent one, when I turn off the AC and set the thermostat to maximum heat I get a quick puff of warm air and then it settles into a slightly warmer than room temp air being pumped out, nowhere near what I would consider “heat”.  I have no clue why I’d get that initial puff of warm and then seems to go back to almost cool air.  Any direction on this one?

It’s a 2012 JK 

Justsomedude

Throw out bearing is going bad to the clutch and likely low on coolant.

Wambli Ska

Justsomedude said:

Throw out bearing is going bad to the clutch and likely low on coolant.

Ok I’m going to have to Google that… 🤣

Wambli Ska

Ok googling says it’s a common noise in JKs just ignore it.  Everything else about the transmission working correctly.  I’ll check the coolant level tomorrow but it’s running at the right temp according to gauges.

Jay

I would have though the throw out bearing as well. But if it seems to be a common thing with those Jeeps, might as well not worry about it if it's working.

If not the coolant level, those things are controlled by little actuators and doors that move to adjust the amount of warm or cool air. Might be one of them is malfunctioning.  But, I had a similar problem in my TJ. It would blow warm air at first, then turn to blowing cold air. In my case, it was the heater core partially clogged, restricting hot water flow through it. Without the heater on, the flow was just enough to warm up the core. But as soon as air started going through it, it cooled it off and there wasn't enough water flow to keep it warm. I disconnected both hoses going to the firewall, hooked a garden hose up to one of them and another hose on the other side going out into my yard and let water flow through it for a while. It took a good while to get it flowing clean. I put it back together and it worked great for a while, then plugged up again. A few times of flushing the entire cooling system finally got it fixed for good. After that, I've driven my Jeep in temps below 20 degrees wearing only a Tshirt. And that's with a soft top... 

My problem ended up looking like a former owner just put regular hose water in it with no coolant. The entire cooling system of my Jeep was brown and sludged up. I probably spent a combined 6 hours filling and flushing that thing before I got it clean enough to fill up with coolant mixture and move on. All that aluminum stuff in there doesn't seem to play very well with just water. Much less regular tap water. 

zorba

Wambli - are you a member over at the JK forum? Run by the same guy that runs the TJ forum, best way to find out these sorts of things!

Japhy

Throw out bearing is engaged when the clutch is depressed. more likely there is a problem with the throw out disengaging.  most vehicles require the clutch to be depressed to start . With clutch released while in neutral the drive shaft is not turning.  does the noise occur while in gear?  meaning initially start then put it in gear before initially releasing the clutch. the actual bearing may not be the problem but the arm that moves the clutch plates maybe? And check the clutch hydraulic fluid level.

Wambli Ska

Japhy said:

Throw out bearing is engaged when the clutch is depressed. more likely there is a problem with the throw out disengaging.  most vehicles require the clutch to be depressed to start . With clutch released while in neutral the drive shaft is not turning.  does the noise occur while in gear?  meaning initially start then put it in gear before initially releasing the clutch. the actual bearing may not be the problem but the arm that moves the clutch plates maybe? And check the clutch hydraulic fluid level.

Ive been doing some reading and it most folks kinda say it’s normal for these vehicles.  So I took it to a trans mission shop anyway.  Guy drove it, came back and said it’s fine.  Jeeps make noise and there’s no insulation between the driver and the transmission so just live with it.  Transmission operates perfect.  Clutch works as designed, shifts smoothly etc so for now I will ignore it unless it gets louder.  I will absolutely check the hydraulic fluid level, just in case but the folks at Carvana said that is one of their checks and so far they’ve been spot on.

Wambli Ska

zorba said:

Wambli - are you a member over at the JK forum? Run by the same guy that runs the TJ forum, best way to find out these sorts of things!

I am but my time is so tight if. I have a minute I head here and I know we have some mechanically savvy folks her.

Wambli Ska

Jay said:

I would have though the throw out bearing as well. But if it seems to be a common thing with those Jeeps, might as well not worry about it if it's working.

If not the coolant level, those things are controlled by little actuators and doors that move to adjust the amount of warm or cool air. Might be one of them is malfunctioning.  But, I had a similar problem in my TJ. It would blow warm air at first, then turn to blowing cold air. In my case, it was the heater core partially clogged, restricting hot water flow through it. Without the heater on, the flow was just enough to warm up the core. But as soon as air started going through it, it cooled it off and there wasn't enough water flow to keep it warm. I disconnected both hoses going to the firewall, hooked a garden hose up to one of them and another hose on the other side going out into my yard and let water flow through it for a while. It took a good while to get it flowing clean. I put it back together and it worked great for a while, then plugged up again. A few times of flushing the entire cooling system finally got it fixed for good. After that, I've driven my Jeep in temps below 20 degrees wearing only a Tshirt. And that's with a soft top... 

My problem ended up looking like a former owner just put regular hose water in it with no coolant. The entire cooling system of my Jeep was brown and sludged up. I probably spent a combined 6 hours filling and flushing that thing before I got it clean enough to fill up with coolant mixture and move on. All that aluminum stuff in there doesn't seem to play very well with just water. Much less regular tap water. 

I’m beginning to think this was a Florida car and the heater never saw service so the heater core is probably gunked up.  I’ve been running and shutting it down while on longer drives and the more I use it the better it seems to get, slowly.  Today it was actually blowing warm air to the point I had to turn the heat down because it was only 58 this morning so the car warmed up relatively quickly.  If t doesn’t fix itself with use I’ll have someone flush it for me.  Good idea!

Elk creek

Yeah get a coolant flush….. 
inhad a new radiator put in my TJ 8 months ago, it gets a new one tomorrow. It’s a bad radiator, but I was chasing silly problems for a month. 

zorba

TJ radiators are apparently NOTORIOUSLY bad from what I'm hearing - and the aftermarket ones are said to be  worse!

Wambli Ska

Good idea.  Since it’s running at the correct temp I’ll let it run through this weekend because I don’t have the time to bring it in and next week I’ll have them do al oil change (which is due) and a flush while they have it in the shop.  Thanks!

Some_Mook

Jay

Wow. I had heard these things had issues with the radiators. The previous owner of mine had just replaced the radiator right before I bought it. Evidence of the failure still shows, rust colored stains all over the under side of the hood.  I thought the sludge was a result of him just putting water from the garden hose in it. But I'm guessing he just replaced the radiator and topped it off and called it good rather than flushing the system out. It's probably about time for me to flush mine again and refill, before I start having problems again. It's been about a year and a half or so.

Wambli Ska

Awesome…. What’s that gonna set me back 🤬

Some_Mook

Cost depends on what you decide to do, and if you are going to pay someone or do the work yourself.  Unless the cooling system is badly  sludged up, you might want to just try getting the system flushed, which would probably run around $70 to $100, but I don't know what the labor rates are in NC or FL.  If you had to do the whole nine yards, I'd guess you'd be in the 1.5 to 2k range paying full labor and parts mark up.

If you know which end of the screwdriver to hit with a hammer, you could probably do the work yourself (except for the A/C recovery and recharge).  Rolling the dash out of a JK to replace the heater core isn't all that hard.  The messy job would be the oil cooler, which is under the lower intake manifold.  Even that is not very hard, just messy.  

If you do think about doing it all yourself, I'd seriously recommend seeing if you can rent an air-lift style coolant tool and a compressor.  The air-lift is the greatest thing since canned beer, and makes cooling system refills a breeze.

Wambli Ska

I’m I’m a big fan of jumping off one bridge at a time.  I’ll start with a flush and take it from there…

Wambli Ska

@Some_Mook, the other issue with the noise.  Is it normal in Jeeps as the forums say?  The local transmission guy just shrugged it off and said learn to live with it.

zorba

Wambli Ska said:

Awesome…. What’s that gonna set me back 🤬

Just

Empty

Every

Pocket

Wambli Ska

zorba said:

Wambli Ska said:

Awesome…. What’s that gonna set me back 🤬

Just

Empty

Every

Pocket

That hasn’t been my experience with any Jeep I’ve owned.  I have spent money on upgrades but NEVER pricey repairs.  

Wife wants a new 4-WD vehicle and has been bugging me to take her car AND mine to a Jeep dealership and see what we can do with a 2 car deal.  I would not mind a few tech upgrades.  I do miss electric windows and locks.

Maybe I’ll just peek…

Some_Mook

Enzo, if someone who gets paid to repair vehicles actually heard the noise on your vehicle and told you not to worry about it, I'd go with that.   

Wambli Ska

Some_Mook said:

Enzo, if someone who gets paid to repair vehicles actually heard the noise on your vehicle and told you not to worry about it, I'd go with that.   

👍👍👍

zorba

Some_Mook said:

Enzo, if someone who gets paid to repair vehicles actually heard the noise on your vehicle and told you not to worry about it, I'd go with that.   

If its the Mercedes 6 speed, they are noted for being a bit noisy in neutral.

zorba

Wambli Ska said:

zorba said:

Wambli Ska said:

Awesome…. What’s that gonna set me back 🤬

Just

Empty

Every

Pocket

That hasn’t been my experience with any Jeep I’ve owned.  I have spent money on upgrades but NEVER pricey repairs.  

Wife wants a new 4-WD vehicle and has been bugging me to take her car AND mine to a Jeep dealership and see what we can do with a 2 car deal.  I would not mind a few tech upgrades.  I do miss electric windows and locks.

Maybe I’ll just peek…

I haven't yet had to do any pricey repairs on mine, but I haven't owned it that long either. But I've never put so much money into a vehicle as I have this Jeep - upgrades indeed! But - the very best part of this vehicle is the LACK of electric windows and locks, never mind no touchscreens in the dash and no smartphone nonsense!

Its actually one of the harder vehicles I've owned to work on - mainly because its so damn small and I'm so damn big! Getting at things can be a challenge! Odd fastener sizes keep things interesting too - dunno how that translates into the newer/bigger JK. But its fun, and rewarding to drive. I'm getting to know it better as I work on it more, but it'll be years before I'm as familiar with it as I am the old MBZ which I've now owned for over 21 years.

I *really* wish Jeep had used better cooling system components than they did - a notorious weak spot, at least on TJs.

Some_Mook

Zorba, what is notorious about Chrysler products is they choose to use the cheapest parts they can get to maximize the profits.  Even when they source components from the same suppliers as other manufacturers, Chrysler will go for the cheaper spec to save some pennies.  The inside joke where I work is "save twenty cents on the front end and loose twenty dollars on the back end"

You're probably familiar with the Jeep Wave.  If you want to know how to do the Chrysler Salute, cross your arms in front of your chest while pointing your index fingers off to each side and say "it wasn't my fault"

zorba

Yea - it seems to me that they design a lot of things "right to the edge". Non-MOPAR sensors generally don't work too well. The guys on the TJ forum claim its because everybody else's are cheap junk - and they may well be right. But it also may be simply that there's not enough tolerance built into the system - like the notorious heater fan resistor burning up frequently. The guys on the TJ forum state that 10-12 years is a perfectly acceptable lifespan for a radiator - I say BS on that. I have a new radiator in hand for the old MBZ - but the original is 37 years old, not 10! And it isn't leaking, its clogged. The Jeep heater core is little better, and are notorious for leaking - and mine is. I just plumbed around the thing for now as this is Florida. Having to remove the entire dashboard to change the heater core is complete stupidity too.

Still, its a project, and fun thus far. Sure beats anything new, that's for sure.

Some_Mook

zorba said:

Having to remove the entire dashboard to change the heater core is complete stupidity too.

Vehicles are not designed to be serviced, they are designed to be easily assembled in a factory.  There are very few vehicles where replacing a heater core isn't a lot of work because the heater core is part of an HVAC module that is mated to a dash module by a supplier and then shipped to a plant as an assembly.  The plant rats just slide the whole thing in and bolt it down.  What a service rat has to do to perform a repair in the field is not a design consideration.  The only time field serviceability is considered is when the manufacturers publish warranty labor times - and then the consideration is more along the lines of 'How little can we pay to do this particular procedure?'

zorba

True enough - but some vehicles are better than others for serviceability. The Jeep overall ain't bad. The entire dash on the thing looks like it was borrowed from a minivan, a plastic dash like that has no place in a vehicle like a Jeep. There's an outfit that makes a real CJ/YJ style dash for the TJ - out of metal. VERY pricey, but VERY nice.

Still, one *should* be able to replace a heater core without removing the whole dash - especially in lite of the known sub-par quality of the core. When/if I decide to replace mine, its going to be an expensive custom built brass version because I'll be damned if I'm going to do that job twice. A little bit of common sense in the design department would go a long way - but that virtue departed most/all CarCos decades ago! Its only getting worse as the iPhone mentality overtakes the automotive industry.

Some_Mook

The automotive Industry goes where the consumers want.  Most people don't want to work on their own vehicles, and many people are willing to pay for all the bells and whistles, entertainment / media and comfort systems.  

If you want to experience an abomination, go demo a WS.  You can have a crackling fire displayed on the center stack display screen with the ambient lighting of your choice while listening to a 23 speaker McIntosh sound system while cradled in a heated / ventilated seat with varying intensity 'waterfall' or 'rock climb' massaging seats.

Me?  I'll take a dirt simple CJ with no power anything (including steering and brakes) and a heating system that in Michigan requires me to keep a little hand-sized ice scraper nearby to clear a patch to see out of the windshield while driving and wipers that need some strategically placed string to work them back and forth and only one side view mirror held on with a piece of bar-stock and electrical tape. .  When it gets really cold, I'll wear the electric chaps and vest from my motorcycle days plugged into a couple of wires run directly from the battery through one of the rust holes in the bulkhead.  Bonus points if the seat belt is anchored with a chain directly through the rotted out floorboard to the frame, the brake master cylinder is bad so you have to plan ahead and pump the brakes if you need to think about stopping, and the rubber pads for the brake and clutch pedals are missing leaving slippery-when-wet metal contact points.

Old School driving from when Men were Men and Sheep Were Afraid  (although the sheep are still mostly afraid, but they have money and a need to be pampered and have a nanny watch over them)

wddodge

Some_Mook said:

The automotive Industry goes where the consumers want.  Most people don't want to work on their own vehicles, and many people are willing to pay for all the bells and whistles, entertainment / media and comfort systems.  

If you want to experience an abomination, go demo a WS.  You can have a crackling fire displayed on the center stack display screen with the ambient lighting of your choice while listening to a 23 speaker McIntosh sound system while cradled in a heated / ventilated seat with varying intensity 'waterfall' or 'rock climb' massaging seats.

Which is exactly  why I'm looking forward to retiring in 34 more Fridays. I started out with my dealer in 1980 when he had AMC/Jeep/Renault.  It ain't anywhere near as much fun as it used to be.

Denny