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Who here has a newer Browning BAR Mark II Safari or Mark III?

burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
How do you like it? How tight does she group with factory hunting ammo? I'm no handloader myself. Browning has been boasting for a long time that BAR delivers accuracy rivaling a bolt action rifle. Could one reasonably expect as good as 1 MOA from a newer BAR in .308? That's now par for the course these days for even new cheap bolt-actions. I have a new BAR in mind especially a classic-look BAR Safari Mark II in .308. I'm hoping that they are still made in Belgium. I just can't find enough information online where the BAR was seriously bench tested for accuracy. Has Gun & Ammo tested a new BAR lately? One of these days I will have to try to get into a local gun dealer and look over a new model BAR in person. To tell you the truth, I think any new-model bolt-action hunting rifle I've looked at lately (even within the Browning's somewhat hefty price range of $1,200 - $1,500) doesn't seem nearly as nice as a new BAR if the Web pictures do the guns any justice. Besides, the BAR is touted for taming shoulder kick with piston gas operation. This operation design keeps fouling out of the bolt carrier area unlike an AR which is one of the virtues I like. 
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Replies

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Posts: 8,609 Senior Member
    Factory rifles are going to vary from gun to gun on how accurate they are, plus you have the capability of the shooter, added to the type of ammo  they are using.
    I guess you will just have to buy one, and give us a range report.  Your post seems almost like an ad for one.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    .243 Winchester


    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    I have been doing some more research since this thread. Some claim that Browning is not a good company to do business with these days. Customer service can be difficult to get a hold of. They don't supposedly stand behind their products. Some sources say customers get their telephone numbers blocked by Browning even. Warrantees don't get honored. There was one source that said a customer paid over $200 out of pocket for a new defective BAR that still wasn't fixed. They sound like a company to shy away from like Colt. Other sources say to put one's money in a vintage BAR, made 1960's/1970's, not a new one. The older strictly-made-Belgium quality was much higher. No, I don't care to buy a new rifle from $1,200 to $1,500 and find out it shoots 2 MOA or worse. I think perhaps I should put my money in a good bolt or lever-action hunting rifle now that I think of it. The modern firearms business has largely gone to the dogs it seems. Customers no longer seem to get quality guns with quality backing unless they buy that exclusive rich-persons' stuff costing a good used automobile. 

    No, I'm not trying to advertise for Browning. I owe no loyalty to any gun company unless they build a product I like at a fair-market price and offer good backing to customers. The new gun buyer saw much better days way back in the 20th century. 
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Welcome back. 👍🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Welcome WHO back?
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited January 2022 #7
    Factory rifles are going to vary from gun to gun on how accurate they are, plus you have the capability of the shooter, added to the type of ammo  they are using.
    I guess you will just have to buy one, and give us a range report.  Your post seems almost like an ad for one.
    Before the Internet, I used to buy and read a number of gun magazines and also Guns Digest annual. Often there would be test-fires for guns featured there. I was hoping somebody else spent their money and time already to have test-fired a new BAR at the bench. People spend money on gun publications for a reason. But now after reading about how bad Browning is to customers these days, I have put aside all thoughts of buying a new BAR anyway. Some companies like Weatherby actually offer MOA guarantees on their rifles. From what I've just been reading, I wouldn't trust Browning to give me the right time of day. 
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Posts: 8,609 Senior Member
    Most new bolt action rifles are sub MOA and cheaper and lighter to boot. 
    Since you’ve talked yourself out of the browning, what are you going to buy now?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Welcome WHO back?

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    edited January 2022 #10
    I’ve never been a Browning fan. The one posted above was a gifted one made in Belgium. Might try to take a deer with it this month. Seems to be a decent shooter with handloads for a semi-auto. 
    My dad shot his first elk in the 80s with a friend’s Browning BAR in .300 Win Mag. It produced definitive results. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Most new bolt action rifles are sub MOA and cheaper and lighter to boot. 
    Since you’ve talked yourself out of the browning, what are you going to buy now?
    Tikka!!
    Weatherby Vanguard! (Standard Cartridge)
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Most new bolt action rifles are sub MOA and cheaper and lighter to boot. 
    Since you’ve talked yourself out of the browning, what are you going to buy now?
    I don't quite know yet. I had my eye on a CZ 557 American but they are now discontinued. The Winchester Model 70 might be the only new hunting rifle under $1,500 actually worth a hoot. Boy, if I could find myself a minty Husqvarna Model 3000 Crown Grade for deer. There is a lot of emotion in gun buying. Hunting down perfect gun is sometimes like chasing the holy grail.  I just sold two unfired Ruger Americans last year that were utter junk. Hard to chamber rounds and crappy matte finish. 
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited January 2022 #13
    Zee said:
    Most new bolt action rifles are sub MOA and cheaper and lighter to boot. 
    Since you’ve talked yourself out of the browning, what are you going to buy now?
    Tikka!!
    Weatherby Vanguard! (Standard Cartridge)
    I looked at a new Vangard at a shop a few years ago and was unimpressed by the looks. The gun has to be the right price and look right in my eyes and feel right in my hands or it's a deal-breaker. If I could get a minty Savage 99 at the right price, I'd certainly grab it in a heartbeat. I don't like beat-up guns and I don't like bad cosmetics on new guns. The golden age of guns is the same age as the golden age of automobiles. You don't get '57 Chevy or '65 Lincoln Continental class in most blue-collar-priced new guns this day and age. 

    Back up until a home burglary in 1999 (with no recovery to this day from the theft) I owned the perfect guns then:

    1. a Mossberg 500 pump bought new in 1995
    2. my grandfather's mint Husqvarna Model 3000 Crown Grade bolt rifle in .308
    3. a good-quality blue 1971 Colt Lawman Mark III 4" revolver in .357 I bought in 1996 at a LGS for about $257
    4. my grandfather's nice Savage Model 1899 in .300 Savage

    I suspect some scandalous person boarding in my home at the time knows something about that burg job. 
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 5,405 Senior Member
    There are tons of classic Mauser both well made sporters or commercial guns from the 50-60s on GB for reasonable money still.  But that will end.  Prices are nearly 50% higher than what they were just a few years ago.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited January 2022 #15
    There are tons of classic Mauser both well made sporters or commercial guns from the 50-60s on GB for reasonable money still.  But that will end.  Prices are nearly 50% higher than what they were just a few years ago.
    Things are really tough for blue-collar boomers who remember dad's and granddad's old-fashioned blue steel/wooden guns. I just cannot fall in love with tupper guns that look like the markings were scribbled on by a first grader. Certainly, a '54 Ford Victoria looks classier than a Hyundai Sonata. The world has lost its taste. 
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Well, don’t buy new. Problem solved. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Posts: 8,609 Senior Member
    Sounds like a simple answer to me.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,859 Senior Member
    Soooooo. . .you want a minty classic gun that's never been hunted with, so you can hunt with it and render it immediately non-minty?



    "Apparently, you don't understand. . . Ferris, he never drives it.  He just rubs it with a diaper."

    My hunting experience improved significantly and immediately when I moved the blue and walnut guns into the safe and started hunting with stainless and synthetic or laminate.  Drag it against a rock?  Don't care.  Get rained on?  Don't care.  Massive humidity and temperature shifts?  Zero don't care.

    But if that ain't your thing, here ya go: https://www.kimberamerica.com/classic-select-grade
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:

    But if that ain't your thing, here ya go: https://www.kimberamerica.com/classic-select-grade
    Hey!  I have one of those!  Hasn’t seen the light of day in 10 years or more. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,859 Senior Member
    My point EXACTLY!  :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited January 2022 #21
    There was a time in history when decent blue/wood guns were available for blue-collar working Americans they could afford and hunt with. Any shotgun of mine at the dove stand or while following a bird dog in the field for pheasant is going to be handled lovingly. I don't hunt deer in rocky high-altitude areas but rather in wooded or forested lowland areas. My rifle would be leaned against a tree ever so carefully. My hunting long guns would all be treated as babes in mothers' arms. They would be handled with kid gloves afield. Americans in a revolutionary war, a civil war, two world wars and a Korean war fought with wood-stocked rifles. American pioneers, homesteaders and cowboys had guns with wood stocks. My dad and granddad had guns with wood stocks. They are good enough for me too! 
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Posts: 8,609 Senior Member
    Are we just complaining now?
    If you want a good wood stocked rifle, pony up and spend the money, or wait...
    Buy one, and give us some pics and a range report.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Are we just complaining now?
    If you want a good wood stocked rifle, pony up and spend the money, or wait...
    Buy one, and give us some pics and a range report.
    No, just a reflection on the good old days. I don't have unlimited funds for guns and have more time than money, so the test of my patience is on full steam...I'll wait and browse the net until my mouse wears out. 
  • JayJay Posts: 4,629 Senior Member
    Who here likes to post threads asking for others' experience and input, then argue against every option being offered?.. 
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 5,405 Senior Member
    Are we just complaining now?
    If you want a good wood stocked rifle, pony up and spend the money, or wait...
    Buy one, and give us some pics and a range report.
    No, just a reflection on the good old days. I don't have unlimited funds for guns and have more time than money, so the test of my patience is on full steam...I'll wait and browse the net until my mouse wears out. 
    The good old days were indeed great but we’ve never had as many good options as we do today.   Everyone longs for the era of the cowboy, right up until you figure out a rotten tooth was yanked out with farrier pincers and no anesthesia, and the procedure was liable to kill you with sepsis.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Posts: 18,359 Senior Member
    Yep...he's back
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 5,405 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...he's back
     :D 

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Posts: 18,359 Senior Member
    edited January 2022 #28
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...he's back
     :D 
    Persistent ain't he?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 5,405 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...he's back
     :D 
    Persistent ain't he?
    You have to give him that… 

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • ZeeZee Posts: 28,389 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Jayhawker said:
    Yep...he's back
     :D 
    Persistent ain't he?

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Posts: 9,859 Senior Member
     Americans in a revolutionary war, a civil war, two world wars and a Korean war fought with wood-stocked rifles. American pioneers, homesteaders and cowboys had guns with wood stocks. My dad and granddad had guns with wood stocks. They are good enough for me too! 
    What's your take on their smallpox?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
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