Who likes the Savage 220 for deer?

burroughs85

Great gun for shotgun-only deer places? 

Bigslug

Really depends on the area and your motivations.

Mossberg makes a selection of slug barrels and variable cheekpiece height stocks for your 500 that can turn your bird gun into a 200 yard deer rifle - scoped or not -  in short order.

A bolt action shotgun - especially a rifled one - is very much a one trick pony, typically locking you into expensive ammo with limited availability.  When you find the round it likes, best to just bite the weenie and order enough to keep you set for life.

CHIRO1989

Do you deer hunt?

burroughs85

CHIRO1989 said:

Do you deer hunt?

I did west of the Rockies but with a rifle. Now, living east of the Rockies I have to figure this whole deer shotgun thing out. It's a whole new ballgame. One thing is clear: archery ain't my bag. The thought of hunting with a bow just makes me quiver. 

burroughs85

Bigslug said:

Really depends on the area and your motivations.

Mossberg makes a selection of slug barrels and variable cheekpiece height stocks for your 500 that can turn your bird gun into a 200 yard deer rifle - scoped or not -  in short order.

A bolt action shotgun - especially a rifled one - is very much a one trick pony, typically locking you into expensive ammo with limited availability.  When you find the round it likes, best to just bite the weenie and order enough to keep you set for life.

Given the pricey-ness of some of these fancy slugs for the 220, it's not a gun I would plink cans with for fun. Stuff like Remington Accu-Tip. Sight in with as few rounds as possible, hopefully bag a seasonal doe or two annually and that's it. Game laws and public-access property manager policy banning rifles for deer create some headaches for hunters indeed. My 1908-born (died 1980) grandfather in California couldn't fathom deer hunting with anything but a rifle and feathered critters with anything but a shotgun. I once asked him what he thought about bow hunting and he told me to get out of here. He and my father thought a scope on a hunting rifle was cheating also. He and my father also agreed that hunting deer with 22's was for idiots. I frown upon anybody who tries to shoot deer with a 9mm Glock. 

https://youtu.be/mQjaV8ZIi98

bullsi1911

I’ve always wanted one, but for the same reason I want a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine.  I like weird guns.  A Bolt action 12Ga?  Absolutely!

CHIRO1989

burroughs85 said:

CHIRO1989 said:

Do you deer hunt?

I did west of the Rockies but with a rifle. Now, living east of the Rockies I have to figure this whole deer shotgun thing out. It's a whole new ballgame. One thing is clear: archery ain't my bag. The thought of hunting with a bow just makes me quiver. 

Then yes, it is a good gun, well represented in Central MN as a deer gun along with the 12 ga. version, I have several patients have the 20 ga. version upgraded to reduce recoil with good results, they say they are comfortable with 150yd shots and a bit further with a standing broadside, mixed bag of which sabot's everyone prefers. 

burroughs85

bullsi1911 said:

I’ve always wanted one, but for the same reason I want a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine.  I like weird guns.  A Bolt action 12Ga?  Absolutely!

Savage makes the 212 in 12 ga. $789 retail. Ouch!! In the shoulder and in the wallet both. Rifled barrel too and only good for slugs. It is strictly a big-game gun where rifles are banned for deer and/or other big game. Some folks might archery hunt and/or muzzle-loader hunt because they cannot buy a "firearm" under ATF definitions, their gun rights may have been taken away and sometimes wrongfully so. Often archery (and sometimes muzzle-loading) is allowed where shotguns are allowed in deer seasons. This video shows that a pump gun with a cantilever scope barrel cannot be held and fired exactly like a rifle and it may be punishing to shoot. For long guns, I'm only used to shooting fixed butt-stocked 12 ga. police pump shotguns at the range with short 18-20" barrels and front bead and rifles for hunting and also AR military weapons like my M16 in the army. I'm not accustomed to using shotguns or slug guns as in deer-hunting applications. I have no wing-shooting or clay bird experience either. I have some things to learn yet. You can use your bird shotgun for deer where buckshot is required or allowed. If I have to shoot slugs at deer, I want a good platform specifically for that task. You see, I grew up in California, the wide-open western states. When you said DEER HUNTING, I thought classic center-fire rifles like Weatherby Mark V, Winchester 30-30 lever jobs, Remington 700, Browning BAR, Marlin lever action, Winchester Model 70, Sako, Savage 99, Husqvarna Mauser-action and such. When you said SHOTGUN, I thought ducks, geese, pheasants, quail, grouse and dove. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDh_OsYZbAc

sakodude

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Bigslug

https://www.mossberg.com/store/500-12-gauge-slug-barrel-with-cantilever-mount-24-matte-6-shot-92256.html

https://www.mossberg.com/store/shotgun-stock-wood-w-dual-comb-12-gauge-95059.html

Two options that will greatly simplify your existence, and get you in the game cheaper even than the Savage.

burroughs85 said:

 I frown upon anybody who tries to shoot deer with a 9mm Glock. 

You hear that Zee?  How often do we have an opportunity to be FROWNED UPON?  Time for us to get busy!

Zee

sakodude said:

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Pictures or it doesn’t  exist!

Zee

Bigslug said:

https://www.mossberg.com/store/500-12-gauge-slug-barrel-with-cantilever-mount-24-matte-6-shot-92256.html

https://www.mossberg.com/store/shotgun-stock-wood-w-dual-comb-12-gauge-95059.html

Two options that will greatly simplify your existence, and get you in the game cheaper even than the Savage.

burroughs85 said:

 I frown upon anybody who tries to shoot deer with a 9mm Glock. 

You hear that Zee?  How often do we have an opportunity to be FROWNED UPON?  Time for us to get busy!

You’d be surprised how often I’m tempted driving around my buddies ranch. 

Speaking of which!!  A friend has trapped a rather mean tempered pig and is feeding it out. I’ll be testing our new 147gr Speer Gold Dot G2 ammo on this one when it’s big enough. 

sakodude

Zee said:

sakodude said:

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Pictures or it doesn’t  exist!

Tomorrow 👍

Zee

Hell, I’ve killed 3 deer this year alone with a .223 Remington. 

burroughs85

There are many public places a rifle even in .223 Remington would not be allowed for deer in Ok. Must be a public safety thing. Too many hunters during deer gun and holiday antlerless seasons while high-velocity rifle bullets fly long and fast. There is this video that makes a cantilever scoped barrel on a pump gun look daunting. It's supposedly nasty to shoot and you can't just hold it like a rifle to fire it. The bearded chap in the film says it really rocks ya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDh_OsYZbAc

Bigslug

Being new to Oklahoma, your fist task should be to get your boots on, go looking for deer, and study the conditions under which you see them.  There are places where a tight patterning, low recoil, LE buckshot load or 1200 fps Foster slug out of a smoothbore is a totally legitimate tool for the job (It is called "buckshot" for a reason).  In those circumstances, an open-sighted pump gun will be faster for first or second shots, and the low recoil slugs will get you to 75 yards with pretty much no need to hold over.  I.O.W. there may not be a need to "cheat" with a shotgun pretending to be a .30-06.  If there is, then go to rifled bores, sabots, and scopes accordingly.

The higher comb / lower bore of rifle stock geometry will help with recoil somewhat, but the hard truth is that 300-500 grains of projectile at 1600+ FPS out of any 8-ish pound gun is going to shove you around some.

sakodude

Savage 220 very accurate with the Remington 260 accutip sabot slugs pictured. 

burroughs85

Bigslug said:

Being new to Oklahoma, your fist task should be to get your boots on, go looking for deer, and study the conditions under which you see them.  There are places where a tight patterning, low recoil, LE buckshot load or 1200 fps Foster slug out of a smoothbore is a totally legitimate tool for the job (It is called "buckshot" for a reason).  In those circumstances, an open-sighted pump gun will be faster for first or second shots, and the low recoil slugs will get you to 75 yards with pretty much no need to hold over.  I.O.W. there may not be a need to "cheat" with a shotgun pretending to be a .30-06.  If there is, then go to rifled bores, sabots, and scopes accordingly.

The higher comb / lower bore of rifle stock geometry will help with recoil somewhat, but the hard truth is that 300-500 grains of projectile at 1600+ FPS out of any 8-ish pound gun is going to shove you around some.

Bigslug: for example, the Remington Premier Accu-Tip is a 20 ga. 260-grain sabot slug at 1,850 fps MV. 
I wonder what that translates to in recoil in a Savage 220 with a scope. Buckshot is not allowed in Ok for deer. Before boots-on scouting, I will be making a list of those WMA's, OLAP's and other public-access deer areas in my neck of the woods: southern Oklahoma. Fort Cobb, my nearest WMA, is one WMA that has deer all over it, an open holiday antlerless gun season (second half of December) and is open the last part of November for the first nine days of normal gun season. This gives the deer hunter with a slug-loaded shotgun roughly 25 calendar days a year to harvest at least one doe. One might bag a doe in the narrow window of regular gun season and then maybe a second one for the holiday antlerless. Probably best to hit this land on opening days. Dove in this land is said to be common but "not abundant". The land is also open to archery and muzzle-loader seasons.  Deer gun days have become progressively shorter in modern times. A good number of WMA's in Ok are closed to holiday antlerless gun and/or antlerless harvest during normal gun. A number of them are closed to guns altogether. There is a push to restrict guns in public hunting areas. Guys with guns during hunting seasons can go totally ape in the woods. When a bunch of crazy fools act stupid, it ruins it for ethical hunters. 

CHIRO1989

sakodude said:

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Interested.

Jayhawker

burroughs85 said:

There are many public places a rifle even in .223 Remington would not be allowed for deer in Ok. Must be a public safety thing. Too many hunters during deer gun and holiday antlerless seasons while high-velocity rifle bullets fly long and fast. There is this video that makes a cantilever scoped barrel on a pump gun look daunting. It's supposedly nasty to shoot and you can't just hold it like a rifle to fire it. The bearded chap in the film says it really rocks ya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDh_OsYZbAc

Shooting a slug gun from a bench has a tendency to give you a push...the cantilever mount has nothing to do with it...

burroughs85

The man in the video is saying the gun has to be held tight against the body, that it has to be manhandled. Does one have to manhandle a Savage 220 just the same? Typically, guys turn a 12 gauge pump into a slugger for deer by barrel swaps. That a Savage 220 is a 20 gauge which might be the reason for the softer slug shooting. At least one source says the high bore axis of pumps has something to do with nasty recoil. 

Bigslug

Any hard kicking gun needs to be pulled in firmly so you and it can move rearward as a unit.  Hold 'em loose, they jump to fill the gap and pound you.

High bore axis (i.e. many leverguns) turns some of your rearward thrust into rotational thrust, with your shoulder being the pivot point.  The opposite extreme would be the AR-15 with the bolt moving straight at your shoulder.  The common bolt gun stock built for use with optics is usually somewhere in between, with the Ruger M77's being a nice example for good recoil management.

Rather than looking at this as a matter of 20 vs, 12 gauge, look at projectile weight and speed.  There are cream puff 2 3/4" 12 gauges as well as thundering 3" 20's.  Many bird loads have a lot of empty space taken up with wads - the thumpers will fill that void up with powder and/or lead.  Also worth considering is that the 20 gauge guns are usually a pound or two lighter by virtue of their thinner receivers and barrels, so they'll kick MORE if given a load of the same weight and speed. (FYI, the cantilever slug barrels are a good bit thicker and heavier than the smoothbores)

The bolt gun of equivalent weight will manage an equivalent load better.  You just have to decide if a  small handful of love taps to the shoulder every year sting you more than the bolt gun's price tag.

You've obviously fired a 12 gauge pump before - go find a box of magnum buck or slug and shoot them.  If you still have your fillings and aren't seeing stars, you'll be good to go.

burroughs85

The most potent 12-ga. loads I've ever fired was from a Mossy 500 police pump I bought new in 1995 was 3" magnum 00-buck loads at an outdoor range. Synth stock and thick recoil pad. The recoil must have been so mild I can't even remember it. I fired it in 1996. In 2017 I bought a used Remmy 870 police pump. Fired it at an indoor range with only 2 3/4" 00-buck. Not painful on the shoulder but it gave me a rude push. It's that weird feeling of being dizzy or off balance like I was about to fall down on the floor backwards. The Mossy earlier on seemed to be more pleasant to shoot even with magnum buck. My only experience with firing shotguns to date is with defensive shotguns, not shotguns for hunting. 12 ga. pumps only in my shotgun shooting experiences. 

Ernie Bishop

CHIRO1989 said:

burroughs85 said:

CHIRO1989 said:

Do you deer hunt?

I did west of the Rockies but with a rifle. Now, living east of the Rockies I have to figure this whole deer shotgun thing out. It's a whole new ballgame. One thing is clear: archery ain't my bag. The thought of hunting with a bow just makes me quiver. 

Then yes, it is a good gun, well represented in Central MN as a deer gun along with the 12 ga. version, I have several patients have the 20 ga. version upgraded to reduce recoil with good results, they say they are comfortable with 150yd shots and a bit further with a standing broadside, mixed bag of which sabot's everyone prefers. 

Chiro,

Problem solved. 

That is a decent range for a slug rig, and in 20 gauge to boot.

Sounds like a gun a teen could handle easily, especially with a few upgrades. 

With the right optic, and a better field position, I am now even more curious, how far one could stretch it with field rests and stay in the kill zone.

B,

FWIW-Hunting deer or being able to get within 150 yards, is not that difficult, no matter where you live.

CHIRO1989

Ernie, I should have one in hand shortly, new to me

minnesotashooter

CHIRO1989 said:

sakodude said:

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Interested.

So am I😜

CHIRO1989

minnesotashooter said:

CHIRO1989 said:

sakodude said:

If anyone is interested I have one from my time in the Midwest I no longer need.

Interested.

So am I😜

You are way too late