Does anyone reload 9mm Makarov (9x18)?

bullsi1911

Another one I never thought I would load for, but I have not seen 9mmMak ammo in stock in ages.  Considering loading some just so I can shoot the damn guns.

Any suggestions on powder and projectiles?

Bigslug

Learn to cast your own bullets.

That's my advice to anyone anyway, but when you start getting into cartridges like the 9x18 that have oddball bullet diameters, it becomes more critical if you want to play.

You've got to slug your bores with a dead soft lead ball or cylinder, and then measure your groove diameter off of that.  Either by a tumble lube bullet that falls out of the mold at the correct diameter, or a conventional lube-groover that you size, you want to end up with a bullet that is 0.001 to 0.002" fatter than that.  Without having your gun in hand, I'd guess you need to be about .366"-.367"

Accuate Molds has a number of options already for the 9x18, but Tom makes his living off of letting folks customize profiles and diameters, and tweak for different alloy mixes.

I can guide you.  Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies! 

I'd probably pick Bullseye as my starting propellant.

GrapeApe

Coated LRN
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75828

Berry Plated RN
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/23262
 
As for powder(s)
Unique gets my vote

Edited to add: And if you want to spend big money, Lehigh makes their "Xtreme Penetrator" in 0.364"  for it
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/85411

breamfisher

I haven't shot them yet, but I've been powdercoating my own cast bullets instead of pan lubing them.

It's real easy.  IF you want to get into bullet casting.  Being where you are, the window for casting and not dying of heat stroke is probably 2 weeks at most, however.

bullsi1911

Bigslug said:

Learn to cast your own bullets.

That's my advice to anyone anyway, but when you start getting into cartridges like the 9x18 that have oddball bullet diameters, it becomes more critical if you want to play.

You've got to slug your bores with a dead soft lead ball or cylinder, and then measure your groove diameter off of that.  Either by a tumble lube bullet that falls out of the mold at the correct diameter, or a conventional lube-groover that you size, you want to end up with a bullet that is 0.001 to 0.002" fatter than that.  Without having your gun in hand, I'd guess you need to be about .366"-.367"

Accuate Molds has a number of options already for the 9x18, but Tom makes his living off of letting folks customize profiles and diameters, and tweak for different alloy mixes.

I can guide you.  Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies! 

I'd probably pick Bullseye as my starting propellant.

bullsi1911

breamfisher said:

I haven't shot them yet, but I've been powdercoating my own cast bullets instead of pan lubing them.

It's real easy.  IF you want to get into bullet casting.  Being where you are, the window for casting and not dying of heat stroke is probably 2 weeks at most, however.

Very true.  On top of that is the whole ‘I barely have time to shoot, much less steal the wheel weights of my neighbors cars’ thing.

breamfisher

Most modern ones are zinc or steel, so....

Diver43

Too bad BigDan isn't around anymore.  He collected and shot a bunch of them.

Bigslug

bullsi1911 said:

Bigslug said:

Learn to cast your own bullets.

That's my advice to anyone anyway, but when you start getting into cartridges like the 9x18 that have oddball bullet diameters, it becomes more critical if you want to play.

You've got to slug your bores with a dead soft lead ball or cylinder, and then measure your groove diameter off of that.  Either by a tumble lube bullet that falls out of the mold at the correct diameter, or a conventional lube-groover that you size, you want to end up with a bullet that is 0.001 to 0.002" fatter than that.  Without having your gun in hand, I'd guess you need to be about .366"-.367"

Accuate Molds has a number of options already for the 9x18, but Tom makes his living off of letting folks customize profiles and diameters, and tweak for different alloy mixes.

I can guide you.  Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies! 

I'd probably pick Bullseye as my starting propellant.

Oh, you don't know the half of it.  Once you can measure the guns bores and revolver cylinder throats with pin gauges, and the groove diameters with slugs, and then cast and size bullets to shoot, you are no longer dependent on outside sources.

The Moral of the Story:  you can now buy AND SHOOT all kinds of guns you couldn't before.

Cookies I tell you!

Justsomedude

I had a regular come into the shop a while back. He's an older guy, Korean war vet and pulled out a nice Makarov to show me. He said something about it being a 380 which had me doing a double take. It was obviously a 9x18 which I explained to him but he told me he's been shooting 380acp in it and sure enough the mag was loaded full with them. I asked him if I could test fire it because I was sure that it wouldn't cycle but it sure as hell did! I assume the accuracy would be terrible though. 

Bigslug

For example, I'd do my diameter checks on the gun and have him adjust the diameter on this:



And then have him change the lubrisizer groove to tumble lube like on this .380 version:



COOKIES!

Justsomedude

I'm not a reloader and I know that 9x18 isn't a saami round but they seem to be a universal standard of .365 diameter from what I've always read.

Wambli Ska

Bigslug said:

Learn to cast your own bullets.

That's my advice to anyone anyway, but when you start getting into cartridges like the 9x18 that have oddball bullet diameters, it becomes more critical if you want to play.

You've got to slug your bores with a dead soft lead ball or cylinder, and then measure your groove diameter off of that.  Either by a tumble lube bullet that falls out of the mold at the correct diameter, or a conventional lube-groover that you size, you want to end up with a bullet that is 0.001 to 0.002" fatter than that.  Without having your gun in hand, I'd guess you need to be about .366"-.367"

Accuate Molds has a number of options already for the 9x18, but Tom makes his living off of letting folks customize profiles and diameters, and tweak for different alloy mixes.

I can guide you.  Come to the Dark Side - we have cookies! 

I'd probably pick Bullseye as my starting propellant.

I can see that kind of dedication when casting for rifle bullets to make (as an example) some oddball relic shoot accurately…. But a Makarov?!?!?!?!?!

A couple of boxes of any bullet that’s close enough to help me get it back to where it goes bang and puts holes in the high center chest area of a target at typical SD distances is more than good enough.   They are bulk firing little gun machines that most won’t ever even carry for SD unless they are looking to be different that day.

bullsi1911

I have known a lot of people that have run .380 through a Mak.  It works… but its not good for the gun or for accuracy.  I HAVE a .380 barrel ( its even extended and threaded!) that I could swap onto my Mak if I REALLY want to get range time on it.  

But I also have a CZ-82 that I would not mind shooting again sometime soon.  And unfortunately for the “Cast your own!” Crowd- it has polygonal rifling with makes it really accurate…. But not with lead.   Maybe coated or plated will work- If I get the dies, I’ll find out.

Mostly, I am trying not to get caught flat footed by another ammo panic and end up with guns I can’t shoot.  I either need to have a stockpile of ammo, or the ability to reload.

breamfisher

Negative, ghostrider.  We've got to make this process as onerous and difficult as possible so that people can say "he casts his own bullets!  He's super-into this hobby!" and keep the mystique and exclusivity of this particular subset alive.  He must learn technical terms and speak only in jargon.  Only in this way will be be treated as a mage of firearms.

Bigslug

Yes well. . .while I never thought of myself as a "mage of firearms", I have loaded ammo.  How's your stash?

Bigslug

Wambli Ska said:

I can see that kind of dedication when casting for rifle bullets to make (as an example) some oddball relic shoot accurately…. But a Makarov?!?!?!?!?!

I kinda wish I picked one up back in the days of cheap surplus as I actually was fairly impressed by the Maks - a Walther PP (sort of) with more oomph and enough extra mass to not chew your hand up.  With the chrome-lined bores the Russians were so fond of, they'd probably make pretty sweet cast guns. 

I've gravitated toward tumble lube bullets for as many applications as I can where it's a practical option.  Swirling a few hundred of them around at a time in a plastic jar then dumping them out on parchment to dry with the occasional stir is a much better use of my time for bulk auto pistol slugs than individually running them through a lube sizer.

But another advantage of casting is that your raw materials can stay in ingot form until you decide to shoot a particular thing.  If you have 200 pounds of wheelweight-equivalent alloy, you technically have bullets for everything you own a mold for.

breamfisher

My stash is pretty good. I finished loading up my latest batch of cast bullets (powder coated) and have 30 or so pounds of potential bullets waiting in the wings.

Having already experimented with commercial products, I found out I  liked cast, and learned what diameters worked before making a big casting investment.

Oh, and another advantage: other than waterfowl, my bullets are legal to use on any appropriate target, be it paper or reactive, where I live.

It's not as difficult as some people make it. I mean, you can make it as difficult as you want, and if that makes you happy, you do you.  But I think a lot of folks don't get into casting because the casters make it sound harder than it is.

bullsi1911

Now that I have the Dies in hand…. It seems that all the brass has dried up.  Anyone know of a place that is has 9x18 brass in stock?

Wambli Ska

Next run to Sportsmans Warehouse I’ll take a look.  I’ve been finding powder and brass there sporadically and I do seem to remember seeing 9mm Mak brass last time.

Rafterman

Starline says back ordered but place an order anyway. 10mm was out of stock but I ordered anyway and was surprised when it didn't take as long as predicted. Of course your results may be different than mine.

bullsi1911

Starline has 500 case minimum. Don’t need THAT much….  But I may just have to go that way.

GrapeApe

bullsi1911 said:

Starline has 500 case minimum. Don’t need THAT much….  But I may just have to go that way.

It's a semiauto pistol, you're going to lose some every time you take it shooting.
Go ahead and buy the 500 and HOPE that's a lifetime supply

breamfisher

I was talking to a fellow the other day who lucked into 600+ rounds of Mak for $150.  He figured he could either buy a pistol for it or use it for trading stock.

Looking at ammo prices per round, he really lucked out....

Rafterman

Honest question. While sizing 9mm every now and then I'll find a 9x18 that slipped in. Would sizing a 9x18 case in a 9mm die make it unusable? 

Wambli Ska

Rafterman said:

Honest question. While sizing 9mm every now and then I'll find a 9x18 that slipped in. Would sizing a 9x18 case in a 9mm die make it unusable? 

I can’t say I’ve done it but I can’t see how it would be an issue.  The case is the same -1mm in length correct?

breamfisher

The dimensions aren't the same.  Similar, but not identical.

Wambli Ska

Great illustration!  So it’ll size it down to .2 mm slimmer that a Mak.  That still should not make it unusable.  If you bell the case mouth and seat a Mak sized bullet in it using Mak dies it should still headspace ok, no?

breamfisher

Maybe?  

I was just answering the dimensional issue.  To be honest, around here you're going to have a hard time finding Mak brass to resize.  Because almost all the ammo folks use is steel.