Personal Defense TV w/TDI 01-25-12

christhetoolmanchristhetoolman New MemberPosts: 1 New Member
I was watching PD TV which I love and wish they would get more into the short show on Jan 25 with TDI about " Active Shooter " I was a Law enforcement Officer and have a little training but I'm sure the man with TDI is more qualified than I am about this situation but I disagree with one thing I saw when clearing the building with a ' Active Shooter ". While at the range TDI recommends after shooting the bad guy to holster your weapon and show your hands so everyone will know you are not a threat. But, what about the bad guys gun ( the Active Shooter ), suppose the bad guy goes down but still is alive and you think he is dead and he grabs his gun back and starts again?

If we take the bad guy down and leave a unsecure firearm laying about for another bad guy that maybe was posing as a victim by one of the desks or something and arms himself with the firearm of the first bad guy. I'm just saying shouldn't we secure the firearm so that is one less threat to worry about? What do you recommend?

Another question I have is about carrying a " Concealed Weapons Permit " Badge. I could see where it could get you in trouble by accident but I can see where it could possibly save your life and/or deescalate a situation. What are your thoughts on this matter as Personal Defense professionals?


Thanks for your response.

Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I thought they quit putting those things in Cracker Jack boxes!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Here is the rub, as a LEO or even former LEO with any amount of field experience, after a suspect is down it ain't over, every situation is different of course, and as a LEO, I am sure those lessons were covered in the academy.

    The subject of "concealed carry badges" is one that pops up every now and then, they are a poor idea at best.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    I'll respond to your last question first...unless your badge is issued to you by an agency or municipality, you've got no...repeat no business carrying it, much less displaying it.
    In some situations it could get you arrested for impersonating a LEO...in others it could get you shot..in still others it could get you executed...remember...sometimes a badge is a target...

    Re the "active shooter" situation you describe, IMHO after the shooter is down, your job is unfinished until you disarm him...this does not mean you should pick up his weapon, simply moving it out of his reach with your foot (not kicking it across the room) while keeping him covered will accomplish this, effectively "assuming control" of his firearm...Then holster your firearm, remain ready to engage again if something stupid happens, and when LE arrives, show your hands and announce loudly that you are a "friendly"..... Remember that in a situation like this tensions are running high, no one knows who's who, not a good time to be seen with a firearm in your hands, and the act of going for your "badge" could be seen as a sign of aggression...You should probably except that you will be disarmed and restrained until things get sorted out...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    Get the guy to lay face down, legs crossed at the ankles, arms outstretched with palms up. It's uncomfortable, sure, but that's not the point. In this position, it is very hard to get up. Don't help the guy down, make him do it himself. If you get within arm's reach, he can grab you or go for a concealed backup weapon. Have him on the ground, proned out, and move the gun away from his reach like Jayhawker said, but do it carefully, don't allow him to grab you and bring you to ground.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    CCW badges are for flaming homos.

    Well........there is THAT, I guess.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    CCW badges are for flaming homos.




    Wow dude, really?

    I don't even have a response to that.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,195 Senior Member
    Do you have a shrimp colored shirt?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,737 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    CCW badges are for flaming homos.

    Out of 10....

    9.9 for punctuation
    10 for presentation
    10 for brevity
    10 for 'getting the point across'
    5 for tact

    Drop the lowest score, add the rest together and you score 39.9 of a possible 40 points.

    If you wish to appeal the points, you have 24hrs to lodge a protest.
    ( Please note: a maximum score has only been awarded once)
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    I never realized that tact was part of the grading process. Good to know.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,737 Senior Member
    I never realized that tact was part of the grading process. Good to know.

    Tact was added by the progressive/liberal movement to create obfuscation as they scored so low in all the other categories.....
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,246 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Tact was added by the progressive/liberal movement to create obfuscation as they scored so low in all the other categories.....
    So I can safely continue to ignore it, good to know.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    CCW badges are for flaming homos.

    I knew a few flamers and they were bonafide N.Y.C.P.D. Detectives and union delegates to boot.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Out of 10....

    9.9 for punctuation
    10 for presentation
    10 for brevity
    10 for 'getting the point across'
    5 for tact

    Drop the lowest score, add the rest together and you score 39.9 of a possible 40 points.

    If you wish to appeal the points, you have 24hrs to lodge a protest.
    ( Please note: a maximum score has only been awarded once)

    I thought in panel scoring you threw out the HIGH score (usually the contestant's home country) and the LOW score (usually the Russian judge) ...:jester:
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    It's New Zealand scoring...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,737 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I protest.
    Punctuation should be a 10.

    I take it that you are appealing the judges decision...................


    I am sorry, due to the international dateline and the fact that the judge is 24hrs ahead, your appeal is out of time....

    However in the spirit of international cooperation the judges have added another category and this will be added in. This will also mean the lowest two scores will be deleted.

    Your score now reads thus......

    Out of 10....

    9.9 for punctuation
    10 for presentation
    10 for brevity
    10 for 'getting the point across'
    0 for tact
    10 for honesty

    Drop the two lowest scores and you have scored 40 out of a possible 40.

    Congratulations, your 'Concealed Weapons Permit' badge will be engraved and forwarded to you in due course , along with instructions for its use.

    Thank you for participating.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    Ok, I will make a confession:

    I'm not a flaming ****, my name is not Nancy!

    I have a shrimp colored shirt, the BGK wore a pink shirt.

    I have one of those badges; however, I have only used it for playing cops and robbers with the neighborhood children.

    People make many blanket statements with only implied qualification.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    I saw what you did, "imoit:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • fashion masterfashion master Banned Posts: 7 New Member
    Carbines are just rifles with shorter stocks and barrels. Sub machine guns are designed to shoot pistol rounds (short, wide, slow, heavy) while personal defense weapons fire scaled down rifle rounds (longer, thinner, faster, lighter). PDW's have better penetration and can fire armor piercing rounds. Pistol rounds out of a SMG typically aren't armor piercing.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Re: Personal Defense TV w/TDI 01-25-12
    Originally Posted by DoctorWho
    I knew a few flamers and they were bonafide N.Y.C.P.D. Detectives and union delegates to boot.
    I'm happy for your rump ranger pals.


    Now, had you read my post you may have noticed that I said "CCW badges". Also, you might have taken with a grain of salt, and not been so uptight and quick to defend the pillow biters. I mean, I thought I had a reputation of somewhat of a sarcastic nature. Maybe not. Maybe I should work on that.

    ********

    I was not being uptight or defensive, or defending the so called "pillow biters"
    I was simply commenting, there were many so called flamers in FDNY and the various LE agencies, and they did not need fake CCW badges, they had real badges.

    They did their jobs well and stayed among themselves pretty much.

    As an aside, after all these years, when did I ever ask you to change ???
    I apologize for not explaining Myself correctly or more accurately.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,427 Senior Member
    Going back to the original topic, here is what I personally think I would do for an active shooter. I say think, because I have not been exposed to such a thing yet so I have no idea what I would really do. For all I know I might have a panic attack and pass out, though I'd like to think I wouldn't.

    First step is to ascertain that the possible bad guy is actually a bad guy, and is shooting. There are a lot of morons around my neighborhood with airsoft guns so I have to be really weary of this. Once I have determined that said suspect is a bad guy, if I was carrying (#_*$ college campus), and had a clear shot, I'd take the shooter down. Plain and simple. No aiming for the gun, no warning shots. Aim pistol at bad guy (staying behind cover if possible), shoot bad guy, repeat until bad guy is no longer moving/shooting.

    Then I'd sweep the area, basically clearing an objective. Run to dead/incapacitated bad guy and kick his weapon away. Scan the area briefly to see if he has friends. Then unload his weapon and separate the ammo from the weapon (yes you're fingerprints will be on it, whatever, that's better than someone picking it up and using it). I'd then holster my weapon and tend to the wounded person/body. Hopefully some bystander will have the state of mind to call 911 or at least pay attention when I point to the **** filming this whole event on his cell phone and tell him to call 911. Wait for police. Explain to police what happened. Be ready for civil suit from bad guy's family, since he was just misunderstood/mentally challenged/whatever.

    That's just one man's opinion on how to react to such a situation, and a lot is dictated by your abilities and state of mind. Those of you with far more experience than me feel free to tear it apart.

    Oh, and absolutely no to a CHL badge. That's what I have the plastic CHL for. Advertising it defeats the purpose, and you have no legal authority as a CHL holder.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    Then unload his weapon and separate the ammo from the weapon (yes you're fingerprints will be on it, whatever, that's better than someone picking it up and using it).

    This is the first I've heard of something like that. I would think that touching the BG's gun would be tantamount to tampering with evidence, which I wouldn't do.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    In the aftermath of a shooting, (Opinion bit) as a non LEO, "I" would do as follows:

    1. After assuring there are no more threats, buddies etc.... without disturbing fingerprints / evidence, secure firearm, by carefully moving it out of the perpetrators reach.

    2. Call 911, "I have been assaulted......I have a CCW and defended Myself, please send an ambulance and Police.

    3. I would not make any more comment than "I feared for My life and defended Myself, I would now like to go to the Hospital to make sure I am ok, I seem to be having chest pains, I would also wish counsel present before answering any further questions."

    I would rather have time to let My head clear before making a statement.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,212 Senior Member
    Keeping with the original premise of an Active Shooter...there are going to be plenty of witnesses telling EVERYONE what you did/ did not do....whether you did/did not them or not...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Keeping with the original premise of an Active Shooter...there are going to be plenty of witnesses telling EVERYONE what you did/ did not do....whether you did/did not them or not...

    And in the real World, non of that matters, when I was a LEO, there was plenty of that, and you get suspended pending the investigation.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,427 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    This is the first I've heard of something like that. I would think that touching the BG's gun would be tantamount to tampering with evidence, which I wouldn't do.

    The idea is that if the bad guy is only wounded he can't reach over and grab his weapon and attempt to shoot you or someone else. Maybe I'm crossing the line between "self defense" and "Rambo," but I'd rather be safe than sorry...
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,018 Senior Member
    bobbyrlf3 wrote: »
    I would think that touching the BG's gun would be tantamount to tampering with evidence, which I wouldn't do.
    I would tend to agree with your thoughts. If I felt the need to separate the weapon from the BG, the toe of my shoe to move it out of his reach, but between them and myself where I can keep it in sight would be MY plan on that
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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