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Laser Dry Fire?

JaphyJaphy Posts: 389 Member
Anyone used any of the laser training systems?  If so are they useful?  Any recommendations?

Some applications I have seen require a subscription and others have up sell advertising built in.





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Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,608 Senior Member
    I've dabbled with the Mantis.  My opinion?  More electro-crap to separate Millennials for whom the smartphone is their Lord and Savior from their money.  YMMV.

    You could just, you know, dry fire on a mostly white target to see if your trigger press is pulling your sights off line.  Got anticipation issues?  Randomly insert dummy rounds into your mix of live ammo.  Bill Gates and Steve Jobs need not apply.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    They are a great tool and they do help show you exactly how much you are disturbing your sight picture with a sloppy trigger press.  One solid week of work and you’ll see a massive improvement in your accuracy.  The cost compared to live fire is negligible.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,935 Senior Member
    edited September 25 #4
    I just balance a coin on the front sight for dry fire. Cheaper. 

    I’ve used the Mantis. Not worth it. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,454 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I just balance a coin on the front sight for dry fire. Cheaper. 

    I’ve used the Mantis. Not worth it. 
    This
    Start with a nickle dime or penny. Once you can aim, pull trigger and not lose the coin start stacking them.  
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,226 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I just balance a coin on the front sight for dry fire. Cheaper. 

    I’ve used the Mantis. Not worth it. 
    Yep..
    Old guy stuff...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    edited September 25 #7
    I used the coin thing for years.  The coin is more forgiving than the laser and I’ve yet to find a combat style revolver sight that will hold a coin.

    Laser systems will adapt to any platform including ARs.

    The coin is also only good as a measure of a clean trigger press.  Does not show you how much your sight picture has truly drifted off target center.  The laser shows you that deviation, exactly.

    The laser system like anything else requires an investment that is worth it to some and not others.  How much the difference is worth is up to the individual.  If your only issue is a sloppy trigger press the coin will work just fine with some of your guns.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,702 Senior Member
    edited September 25 #8
    Put  me down as an anti-laser.  When I was on the Army pistol team at Ft.Polk, one of the Sgts. had me put a pencil in the 1911 and with a white background I'd get up very close to the background (a calendar on the wall) and shoot...the pencil would go forward and mark the background.  Good if old method but it might not work with all pistols.  The 1911s hammer is mor than up to the task.

    The army pistol team?  Not THE ARMY psitol team, just the team from Ft. Polk.  I shot terribly.  Arms room 1011 and an inexperienced shooter.  But I could mark a calendar 

    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 389 Member
    I get to shoot maybe once a week. Improving over the past few months but not there yet.  I do far better with the Ruger SBH and Ruger MKII than the 1911 but both Rugers have 71/2in barrels.  Grip seems to be the primary issue, too much right hand torque? I can almost always call a bad shot instantly. I'm going to try the penny exercise. kinda feel like a flunkie watching my range buds cleaning b16 targets at 25yds.
    good input as usual thanks
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    BTW any Amazon Prime member has the ability to buy any of the major systems, try them out and return them if they don’t meet your needs.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 389 Member
    Just did the penny drill with the 1911.  not a challenge with the fiber front sight First attempt 25 in a row then I quit. Didn’t try it with the Ruger mkii. 
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,608 Senior Member
    You've got two main issues to contend with - the first is the sudden trigger slap, anticipation of recoil, (usually shots low) and sometimes, tightening of the entire hand along with the trigger finger (often shots right for a righty) that will knock a coin or fired case off your front sight.

    The other is brought about by SOMETHING in body mechanics that will cause the sights to lose correct alignment as the shot is taken - elbow or wrist not locked, thumb not in tight, trigger not coming straight to the rear, etc...  For a right handed shooter, most of this will pull your shots left.  The coin or brass trick may not help much here - you need to be cognizant of proper sight alignment ALL THE WAY up to trigger break.

    If you're high, there's a good chance that you're coming off your sights at the last instant to look for bullet holes, or flinching to absorb recoil that hasn't happened yet.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    And a last observation.  Laser systems allow you to move the gun and address multiple targets.  SIRT pistols are excellent training tools, not just trigger press problem fixers.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    This LaserLyte gun at $149 is a bargain.  And you can use it with any target or “smart” system.

    LaserLyte LT-TTL Laser Trainer Pistol Full Size Glock 19 with Realistic Size, Weight, Feel, Resetting 5.5lb Trigger Pull for Accuracy and Recoil Training https://a.co/d/07QCA52

    When ammo was $50 for a box of 9mm I trained dozens of brand new shooters on safety and to the fundamentals (grip, sights, stance and trigger press) with this gun.   

    When they had the fundamentals totally solid I moved them to a Glock 44 (.22lr) and when their confidence and skills were good with the 44 I moved them to a Glock 48 or 19.

    ALL of them would lay shot after shot of aimed fire on top of each other in nice tight clusters to POA when they got to the center fire gun. None of them developed ANY trigger issues.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,702 Senior Member
    There's no substitute for shooting live ammo.  While a laser may help dry firing but nothing is going to replace time at the range.  You can buy a lot of ammo for the price of a laser.  I'm a luddite. 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    There's no substitute for shooting live ammo.  While a laser may help dry firing but nothing is going to replace time at the range.  You can buy a lot of ammo for the price of a laser.  I'm a luddite. 
    Training with a laser gun helps with ALL the fundamentals of shooting a handgun AND they work as you move higher up in experience to not just solidify those fundamentals but even when you start working on  advanced training like a more efficient draw from concealment, movement and multiple targets.

    While I agree live fire is essential for training an experienced shooter, the fundamentals of shooting a handgun are absolutely best taught to a new shooter (or remedial material for self taught shooter) without the distractions of recoil and noise.  Just about every "ludite" will tell you to start a new shooter with a .22 pistol, even though most can't articulate why.  Using a laser just takes that concept to the higher technical level and yet people fight it for no objective reason.

    The ACTUAL reason is that recoil and noise are NOT part of the shooting fundamentals that allow you to shoot a handgun accurately.  They are a by-product of discharging live ammo and they happen AFTER the shooter has discharged the firearm.  They are elements that need to be managed so you can get back to executing the fundamentals again, swiftly if you require a follow up shot.  

    Managing recoil and noise are actually more advanced training and a shooter benefits by isolating them to later in the learning process.  Introducing them early in training is highly counterproductive.  I have (over and over) undone decades of crappy shooting technique and horrible marksmanship with a SIRT handgun and a Glock .22 in a couple of hours by understanding this and being able to communicate it to a student.

    Once the person is very confident/proficient in their fundamentals you can add the distractions (noise and recoil) into the training process and the person will be MUCH better equipped to handle them.  This is not based on some theory or something someone told me.  It's training in well proven modern training technique that I have personally used with hundreds of new/experienced shooters in the last few years.  I have the training, student files, and videos to prove it to myself.  Teaching someone to shoot is now finally based on science.  Others will do what they will do.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,935 Senior Member
    SIRT pistols are excellent training tools, not just trigger press problem fixers.
    I have one of those from work. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,189 Senior Member
    With rifles, SCATT is a hit. It isnt real cheap, but post shot, it will show trace for your hold, trace from the trigger break, and trace after the trigger break. Not using it does not mean you cant hit your target, but breaking it down will show you what to work on. https://scattusa.com/
    The cheap phone camera ones are a PITA to set up in a rifle


    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,805 Senior Member
    I might have to look into one of these.
    I'm getting tired of putting a coin on my barrel and having to chase it down after the gun recoils!
    😂 🇺🇸

    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    I might have to look into one of these.
    I'm getting tired of putting a coin on my barrel and having to chase it down after the gun recoils!
    😂 🇺🇸

    If you were any good you'd be able to catch it in the air!  :D

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,702 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    I might have to look into one of these.
    I'm getting tired of putting a coin on my barrel and having to chase it down after the gun recoils!
    😂 🇺🇸

    Switch to a penny.  You can get 50 rounds practice shots for a dollar.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    PFD said:
    I might have to look into one of these.
    I'm getting tired of putting a coin on my barrel and having to chase it down after the gun recoils!
    😂 🇺🇸

    Switch to a penny.  You can get 50 rounds practice shots for a dollar.
    Now why didn’t I ever think of that…. And you get to bend down and touch your toes a bunch of times!

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,935 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    I might have to look into one of these.
    I'm getting tired of putting a coin on my barrel and having to chase it down after the gun recoils!
    😂 🇺🇸

    You are supposed to catch it before it hits the ground. Duh!

    Practice them ninja skilz. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,935 Senior Member
    Have the kids or grandkids pick them up for 10% of the cost. You’ll never have to leave your chair.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Have the kids or grandkids pick them up for 10% of the cost. You’ll never have to leave your chair.
    Slave child labor.  Big fan!!!  B)

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,805 Senior Member
    🤔
    Maybe I'll just attach the coin with gray tape!
    Problem solved!
    👍
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    PFD said:
    🤔
    Maybe I'll just attach the coin with gray tape!
    Problem solved!
    👍
    Yeah, that’s the ticket!!! 🤣

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    Laser?  No.

    I prefer a lit birthday candle launched out of the barrel of my firearm by the HAMMER'S impulse.  
    I'm just here for snark.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,935 Senior Member
    Lit, of course. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    Of course. 
    I'm just here for snark.
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 389 Member
    Update!
    Got a laser dry fire kit a few weeks ago.
    just under 3000 shots so far.  made several corrections.
    Range today, BIG! difference.
    1911 9mm, cheap ammo, 50rds B8 @25yds, 2 outside the black.

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