Ah these youngsters and there PC gun talk. They don't realize that back in the day the language was different and People weren't so PC about their speach. Cartridge-caliber, cartridge-shell, clip-magazine, it's all academic. In normal conversation it makes not one iota of difference as long as all parties are on board with the subject matter and know what they're talking about. Think about this, if you really know what you mean, what you call something is no big deal. I refrain from it here for fear of repricussion but in real life face to face you will hear me say "SHELLS" as well. You can call me an ignorant-backward Texan, I don't care. I have enough confidence in what I'm doing that this doesn't bother me.
All this coming from the one who likes the .270:D
Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
If a manufacturer were to duplicate the Liberator pistol of WWII fame for a few bucks, I'd probably buy one as a memento, but I'd certainly not carry one even though they are ultra concealable. These guns were hashed about several weeks back on this forum and the response was decidedly luke warm then as it is now. Double barreled shotguns have an application in defense as well. Still, you don't see too many of them in the primary role. There's a reason for this. The same is true for the two-shoot palm pistol. Their application is so freaking limited as to render buying one for primary self-defense just short of ludicrous. That so many were lining up to do so does not necessarily imply that it's a great idea. Regards
Dan
No you are correct. Just because you see a restaurant with a packed parking lot doesn't mean it has the best food. I found this out first hand a couple of times. It could and does also mean the food's cheap. Some people will take cheap over quality any day. Not me, I'll pay a little more for something good to eat. And the same with guns.
However, that doesn't always pertain. In our little half horse cow town on the Texas coast we have maybe 5 good restaurants. Those are packed at breakfast, lunch, and dinner times every day they're open.
One thing I will say is a derringer was always a great carry weapon. People been carrying them for nearly 200 years. This "Double Tap" to me looks like a Derringer. I don't know about the quality, but if it is of high quality and dependable to go bang when the trigger is pulled and accurate enough to hit the barn door from 50 feet, then I wouldn't mind having one for a carry weapon.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Seriously Colt, I didn't really mean a slam against anyone here, especially anyone younger than me. I also hate when someone older insinuates he/she knows more just because of age. That in this day of ultra communications is a moot point. But I do say that things in the past were called by different terms. Back in the 60s if I went in a store and asked for cartridges they would ask me what caliber rifle I had. Shotguns shot Shells. And some called rifle cartridges shells also. In fact everything was shells. Times have changed and that's why I referred to the age thing. It can make a difference in nomenclature because things change over time. That's what I really meant, but you know me, I always add a little something to spice up the conversation.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Maybe what got the dealers interested in stocking the Heizer is a high profit margin. $$$$$$$$$$
I guess that is possible although the suggested retail prices are listed on the manufacturers website. I don't remember the exact price to the FFLs but I don't think it was a huge margin. As I sat down eating lunch there were several dealers discussing the gun and seemed to like what they saw. I does look and feel different. I guess in some cases firearms are a bit like fishing lures where avid fishermen will buy anything new and different looking on the market. It is very light, flat and compact but who knows how much long term success. I personally do not like derringers. This one looks more like a compact pistol than a derringer to me but it does function like a derringer but it is hammerless and double action. It fires one round (barrel) then another pull on the trigger to fire the second round (barrel). They do have a new type of firing mechanism that is a bit different. Like I said it is just different.
Seriously Colt, I didn't really mean a slam against anyone here, especially anyone younger than me. I also hate when someone older insinuates he/she knows more just because of age. That in this day of ultra communications is a moot point. But I do say that things in the past were called by different terms. Back in the 60s if I went in a store and asked for cartridges they would ask me what caliber rifle I had. Shotguns shot Shells. And some called rifle cartridges shells also. In fact everything was shells. Times have changed and that's why I referred to the age thing. It can make a difference in nomenclature because things change over time. That's what I really meant, but you know me, I always add a little something to spice up the conversation.
Yep I am older and they were all called shells regardless of whether they were for shotguns, rifles or handguns way back when. I would have gotten strange looks if I asked for cartridges. Old habits are hard to break. If I have learned anything as I have gotten older it is that I do not know everything and I am more willing to admit it. In my younger days I thought I knew everything but experience has taught me that is certainly not correct. When I have mentored younger people I have tried to tell them not to be afraid to admit they don't know something and ask questions. I have found over the years that most people are eager to tell you what they know and what they think they know If you are old enough do you remember the old Columbo show with Peter Falk as Lieutenant Columbo? Remember he appeared to not know anything and asked all types of questions but always got the bad guy in the end? My methods were very similar to Columbo and I always found it amazing what people would tell me when I appeared to be absolutely oblivious to what was going on. Although my wife would probably argue I was not acting but simply oblivious!
I've personally seen gunstore owners recommending the Judge as the 'perfect HD' weapon, so.... Yeah, I could see it.....
I have heard the same thing. The problem with the Judge it is a bit heavy. I personally prefer my pump Remington 870 12 Ga. as my home defense weapon with my Glock Model 22 .40 cal as a backup. I have a Knoxx Special Ops folding stock and a factory 18" barrel configuration for my home and I just put back on the original stock and barrel if I want to go hunting. I am certainly not a gun collector although I do enjoy looking at and reading about firearms and I have worked around them for the past 30+ years although I am certainly no expert. I look at them more as tools. I have two rifles - Marlin 336 .30 cal lever action and Ruger M77 in .270 cal, two shotguns - Mossberg 500 (all of which are over 30 years old) and Remington 870 both 12 GA and one Glock Model 22 .40 pistol with 3 fifteen round magazines (I actually just called them magazines and not clips. I am trying).
First, you have ZERO clue as to what the dealers were going to do with those guns, unless of course you asked everyone of the them personally. Which you didnt.
Second, the Taurus Judge did, and still does, generate a lot of interest. That does not change the fact that its "not all that and a bowl of grits".
This is a tough forum. The Taurus Judge is a fine weapon and absolutely generates a lot of interest. I just stated it is a bit heavy. I spoke with several dealers but not all dealers as well as the manufacturers reps at the table. I also overheard a number of dealers talking about this handgun. Everything I heard was positive and they were placing orders. I was pretty amazed at the response from these FFLs and that is what intrigued me. I don't know that I would ever buy one or not. It would certainly be better than having nothing to defend yourself with two .45 ACP rounds at ready but there are obviously a host of othe choices out there with more firepower. Believe what you will.
Ah these youngsters and there PC gun talk. They don't realize that back in the day the language was different and People weren't so PC about their speach. Cartridge-caliber, cartridge-shell, clip-magazine, it's all academic. In normal conversation it makes not one iota of difference as long as all parties are on board with the subject matter and know what they're talking about. Think about this, if you really know what you mean, what you call something is no big deal. I refrain from it here for fear of repricussion but in real life face to face you will hear me say "SHELLS" as well. You can call me an ignorant-backward Texan, I don't care. I have enough confidence in what I'm doing that this doesn't bother me.
It's not PC (politically correct) it's being pedantic (overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.)
This is a tough forum. The Taurus Judge is a fine weapon and absolutely generates a lot of interest. I just stated it is a bit heavy. I spoke with several dealers but not all dealers as well as the manufacturers reps at the table. I also overheard a number of dealers talking about this handgun. Everything I heard was positive and they were placing orders. I was pretty amazed at the response from these FFLs and that is what intrigued me. I don't know that I would ever buy one or not. It would certainly be better than having nothing to defend yourself with two .45 ACP rounds at ready but there are obviously a host of othe choices out there with more firepower. Believe what you will.
Yep it is. But once you get past the initiation process, you will grab your position of neutral and be able to start earning or losing respect from there (your call.) But in all seriousness, we all disagree here, but thats what keeps the place interesting. And you can't take a whole ton personal or else you will be huffing red behind a computer screen or just flat out get banned. You seem like an alright guy, so just hang in here and stick around for a while.
It seems the Taurus name bodes no good, look at the various Ford Taurus models and the problems with them.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
Yep it is. But once you get past the initiation process, you will grab your position of neutral and be able to start earning or losing respect from there (your call.) But in all seriousness, we all disagree here, but thats what keeps the place interesting. And you can't take a whole ton personal or else you will be huffing red behind a computer screen or just flat out get banned. You seem like an alright guy, so just hang in here and stick around for a while.
You are correct. Just been awhile since I posted something in this forum and I actually thought I was putting forth some interesting (I guess just interesting to me) information to others that were not Firearms industry members that were at the show. I was not trying to promote the handgun but just putting out some info to which I was privy. Members posting that I was fabricating what I saw was just extremely irritating. Disagreements and apposing views are always part of things. I tend to forget that many disagree on forums and tend to post disagreements more than agreements. I don't participate in many forums, don't do face book, twitter, tweet and don't like to text. I actually like to speak with people on the phone or meet face to face. This forum does have some interesting information and good people and that is why I am a member. I believe we are all firearms enthusiasts and that is our general bond. I have met very few people who are legally associated with firearms that I did not like and vice versa. As a side note most were saying 2012 was going to be a big year for selling firearms with the election and the fact that most (as much as we all hate it) believe Obama will be re-elected. Even the fear of his re-election has firearms sales skyrocketing. You would think the Republicans could have come up with more electable candidates. Again we will be voting for the lesser of evils but that is a story for a different forum.
Ah these youngsters and there PC gun talk. They don't realize that back in the day the language was different and People weren't so PC about their speach. Cartridge-caliber, cartridge-shell, clip-magazine, it's all academic. In normal conversation it makes not one iota of difference as long as all parties are on board with the subject matter and know what they're talking about. Think about this, if you really know what you mean, what you call something is no big deal. I refrain from it here for fear of repricussion but in real life face to face you will hear me say "SHELLS" as well. You can call me an ignorant-backward Texan, I don't care. I have enough confidence in what I'm doing that this doesn't bother me.
and lets not forget theose LEOPOULD scopes........
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
I believe you have to purchase the other barrel and it does not come standard with two barrels so you initially decide if you want 9 mm or .45 ACP. The barrels are held on with a metal pin. Don't know what the exact use will be whether as a back up or not. They reps sort of tout is as being better than nothing at all with the fact it is so small/narrow/low weight and easily concealed. I would believe it more of a novelty item but like I said they generated a lot of interest. I don't know if I would ever purchase one as I think the lowest price is about $500. Too much money for me and that type of weapon but FFLs were buying them. They also tell you up front that your hand will hurt if you fire the .45 ACP. Again this is why I was so intrigued by this handgun. Sort of like the ugly girl at the prom getting all the attention.
Looks like a well made version of the WWII Liberator. As others have stated, you can get any number of more practical pistols for alot less dough.
If I HAD to have something like that, I'd rather have an original liberator or a vintage derringer for their historical value.
Have you fired the one in .44mag??? If so, how long did it take you to find it after it recoiled out of your hands lol?
Yep. Fired it with Blazer and Remington 240 grain HP ammo. It does have some snappy recoil, and not enough pistol available for a two handed grip. Since you only get to grip it with two fingers, it needs to be a white knuckle grip. I don't shoot it that much, but it's pretty accurate from contact distance to around 10 feet. :tooth:
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer” ― Douglas Adams
Hence why if I had a hand in making one for Myself, it would be chambered for a short rimmed .45 and perform 750 - 800 fps max, 230 grain WC bullet.
"There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
actually i just saw something that said $500 msrp for aluminum and $700 for titanium.
A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders.-Larry Elder I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.-Clint Eastwood
They have designed a new type of porting that does not reduce bullet velocity.
That's good, because a 3" barrel is going to do that all by itself.
That's also a steaming load of marketing BS to bury simpletons under. For that matter. so is the notion that the magic of shooting the legendary .45ACP cartridge translates to full-size gun effectiveness regardless of launch platform. If you bleed off propulsion gasses before they are done propelling, you WILL lose velocity. In the ported version, it looks like you get an entire gigantic inch of unmolested barrel in front of the chamber. You might get Webley velocities out of it, but I wouldn't hope for more.
Somebody slapped the .45ACP badge on a derringer, hoping that it will sell cheap-to-make guns like the word "turbo" sells cars.
Hell, at the price of $359 that I purchased my Ruger LCR for..... It weighs only 15 ounces and holds 5 rounds of .38special +P in it. I cant even tell its on me with the IWB holster. Its a pleasant gun to carry and doesn't pattern much at all, if any.
Replies
All this coming from the one who likes the .270:D
No you are correct. Just because you see a restaurant with a packed parking lot doesn't mean it has the best food. I found this out first hand a couple of times. It could and does also mean the food's cheap. Some people will take cheap over quality any day. Not me, I'll pay a little more for something good to eat. And the same with guns.
However, that doesn't always pertain. In our little half horse cow town on the Texas coast we have maybe 5 good restaurants. Those are packed at breakfast, lunch, and dinner times every day they're open.
One thing I will say is a derringer was always a great carry weapon. People been carrying them for nearly 200 years. This "Double Tap" to me looks like a Derringer. I don't know about the quality, but if it is of high quality and dependable to go bang when the trigger is pulled and accurate enough to hit the barn door from 50 feet, then I wouldn't mind having one for a carry weapon.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I resemble that remark!!!
Seriously Colt, I didn't really mean a slam against anyone here, especially anyone younger than me. I also hate when someone older insinuates he/she knows more just because of age. That in this day of ultra communications is a moot point. But I do say that things in the past were called by different terms. Back in the 60s if I went in a store and asked for cartridges they would ask me what caliber rifle I had. Shotguns shot Shells. And some called rifle cartridges shells also. In fact everything was shells. Times have changed and that's why I referred to the age thing. It can make a difference in nomenclature because things change over time. That's what I really meant, but you know me, I always add a little something to spice up the conversation.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I guess that is possible although the suggested retail prices are listed on the manufacturers website. I don't remember the exact price to the FFLs but I don't think it was a huge margin. As I sat down eating lunch there were several dealers discussing the gun and seemed to like what they saw. I does look and feel different. I guess in some cases firearms are a bit like fishing lures where avid fishermen will buy anything new and different looking on the market. It is very light, flat and compact but who knows how much long term success. I personally do not like derringers. This one looks more like a compact pistol than a derringer to me but it does function like a derringer but it is hammerless and double action. It fires one round (barrel) then another pull on the trigger to fire the second round (barrel). They do have a new type of firing mechanism that is a bit different. Like I said it is just different.
Yep I am older and they were all called shells regardless of whether they were for shotguns, rifles or handguns way back when. I would have gotten strange looks if I asked for cartridges. Old habits are hard to break. If I have learned anything as I have gotten older it is that I do not know everything and I am more willing to admit it. In my younger days I thought I knew everything but experience has taught me that is certainly not correct. When I have mentored younger people I have tried to tell them not to be afraid to admit they don't know something and ask questions. I have found over the years that most people are eager to tell you what they know and what they think they know
I have heard the same thing. The problem with the Judge it is a bit heavy. I personally prefer my pump Remington 870 12 Ga. as my home defense weapon with my Glock Model 22 .40 cal as a backup. I have a Knoxx Special Ops folding stock and a factory 18" barrel configuration for my home and I just put back on the original stock and barrel if I want to go hunting. I am certainly not a gun collector although I do enjoy looking at and reading about firearms and I have worked around them for the past 30+ years although I am certainly no expert. I look at them more as tools. I have two rifles - Marlin 336 .30 cal lever action and Ruger M77 in .270 cal, two shotguns - Mossberg 500 (all of which are over 30 years old) and Remington 870 both 12 GA and one Glock Model 22 .40 pistol with 3 fifteen round magazines (I actually just called them magazines and not clips. I am trying).
This is a tough forum. The Taurus Judge is a fine weapon and absolutely generates a lot of interest. I just stated it is a bit heavy. I spoke with several dealers but not all dealers as well as the manufacturers reps at the table. I also overheard a number of dealers talking about this handgun. Everything I heard was positive and they were placing orders. I was pretty amazed at the response from these FFLs and that is what intrigued me. I don't know that I would ever buy one or not. It would certainly be better than having nothing to defend yourself with two .45 ACP rounds at ready but there are obviously a host of othe choices out there with more firepower. Believe what you will.
Just because something has a big following doesnt mean it is good. Look at all the ows people, I rest my case....
It's not PC (politically correct) it's being pedantic (overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.)
Signed,
The Pedantic Hairless Ape
You are correct. Just been awhile since I posted something in this forum and I actually thought I was putting forth some interesting (I guess just interesting to me) information to others that were not Firearms industry members that were at the show. I was not trying to promote the handgun but just putting out some info to which I was privy. Members posting that I was fabricating what I saw was just extremely irritating. Disagreements and apposing views are always part of things. I tend to forget that many disagree on forums and tend to post disagreements more than agreements. I don't participate in many forums, don't do face book, twitter, tweet and don't like to text. I actually like to speak with people on the phone or meet face to face. This forum does have some interesting information and good people and that is why I am a member. I believe we are all firearms enthusiasts and that is our general bond. I have met very few people who are legally associated with firearms that I did not like and vice versa. As a side note most were saying 2012 was going to be a big year for selling firearms with the election and the fact that most (as much as we all hate it) believe Obama will be re-elected. Even the fear of his re-election has firearms sales skyrocketing. You would think the Republicans could have come up with more electable candidates. Again we will be voting for the lesser of evils but that is a story for a different forum.
Their picture not mine
At least with a .44 Rem. Mag. I have something that will set them on fire from the muzzle blast. Hard to attack someone when your clothes are on fire.
― Douglas Adams
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
and lets not forget theose LEOPOULD scopes........
A backup, backup gun?
I believe you have to purchase the other barrel and it does not come standard with two barrels so you initially decide if you want 9 mm or .45 ACP. The barrels are held on with a metal pin. Don't know what the exact use will be whether as a back up or not. They reps sort of tout is as being better than nothing at all with the fact it is so small/narrow/low weight and easily concealed. I would believe it more of a novelty item but like I said they generated a lot of interest. I don't know if I would ever purchase one as I think the lowest price is about $500. Too much money for me and that type of weapon but FFLs were buying them. They also tell you up front that your hand will hurt if you fire the .45 ACP. Again this is why I was so intrigued by this handgun. Sort of like the ugly girl at the prom getting all the attention.
If I HAD to have something like that, I'd rather have an original liberator or a vintage derringer for their historical value.
Yep. Fired it with Blazer and Remington 240 grain HP ammo. It does have some snappy recoil, and not enough pistol available for a two handed grip. Since you only get to grip it with two fingers, it needs to be a white knuckle grip. I don't shoot it that much, but it's pretty accurate from contact distance to around 10 feet. :tooth:
― Douglas Adams
Well, that's interesting.:roll2:
Here is the info off of their website:
DoubleTap™ Specifications*:
Caliber:
Weight:
Width:
Length:
Height:
Barrel:
Frame:
.45 ACP, 9MM
14 oz Titanium (empty)
12 oz Aluminum (empty)
.665 inches
5.5 inches
3.9 inches
3.0 inches
Titanium or Aluminum
Double Tap™ Tactical Pistol Non-Ported Ported
Aluminum $499.00 $569.00
Titanium $729.00 $799.00
Conversion Kits
(Barrel Assembly and 2 HEIZER Loading Devices)
Non-Ported Ported
45 ACP or 9mm $249.00 $319.00
I'll pass.
That's good, because a 3" barrel is going to do that all by itself.
That's also a steaming load of marketing BS to bury simpletons under. For that matter. so is the notion that the magic of shooting the legendary .45ACP cartridge translates to full-size gun effectiveness regardless of launch platform. If you bleed off propulsion gasses before they are done propelling, you WILL lose velocity. In the ported version, it looks like you get an entire gigantic inch of unmolested barrel in front of the chamber. You might get Webley velocities out of it, but I wouldn't hope for more.
Somebody slapped the .45ACP badge on a derringer, hoping that it will sell cheap-to-make guns like the word "turbo" sells cars.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
-96 lbs