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Observation on EV's

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  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    edited October 25 #32
    Some_Mook said:
    Enzo, Not suggesting that YOU would do such a thing,  but there are some people with non-4xE JLs that have figured out that they can easily bolt the EV Charge port (or non-functional aftermarket facsimile) onto their non-EV JL / JT.  Makes parking a bit more simple in that most businesses or Government offices that have charge ports in the parking lot will be situated very close to the building itself.  Park in the front row and plug right in...
    That is outstanding. I want to see a older Vette or Mustang plugged in. Put a watch battery on so its charging the battery.

    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    Some_Mook said:
    Enzo, Not suggesting that YOU would do such a thing,  but there are some people with non-4xE JLs that have figured out that they can easily bolt the EV Charge port (or non-functional aftermarket facsimile) onto their non-EV JL / JT.  Makes parking a bit more simple in that most businesses or Government offices that have charge ports in the parking lot will be situated very close to the building itself.  Park in the front row and plug right in...
    That is outstanding. I want to see a older Vette or Mustang plugged in. Put a watch battery on so it’s charging the battery.

    No one will even blink.  There are a few companies converting old cars to EVs nowadays.  But the irony is awesome 🤣🤣🤣

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    Uh huh, up until 350hp comes to life.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    Uh huh, up until 350hp comes to life.
    Then it'll be really funny :D

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 681 Senior Member
    We have looked at EV a lot in the last year or so. We live 15 miles to the school and 18 miles from my wife’s work. We have massively cheap hydro electric power and plenty of it. If I could find one for a reasonable price I’d have to one for my boys to drive and one for my wife’s commute. We also wired in two 220v outlets in the garage when we built. So no issue. 

    I think people try to over do the all or nothing thing. That just doesn’t work. Would I buy an EV truck never just wouldn’t work here, also no family road trip type car. But for daily round trip of 30-35 miles sign me up. We would save a ton. 
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    You may save unless everyone gets one. The cost of power is going up now, and the grid needs rebuilt at the usage we have now. That will be a large expense that we will all pay. The other thing is that some politicians are trying to demand that we all get the one size fits all slave built cars, so having a choice may not be a choice.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,179 Senior Member
    "Choice" left the automotive biz years ago. Just sayin'.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,445 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    "Choice" left the automotive biz years ago. Just sayin'.
    Huh?
    There are 40something manufacturers that make multiple model cars sold in the US.  They come in several colors. What do you mean no choice?
    Its not like some countries where there are 2 or 3 cars in 2 colors 
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    edited October 26 #41
    Diver43 said:
    Huh?
    There are 40something manufacturers that make multiple model cars sold in the US.  They come in several colors. What do you mean no choice?
    Its not like some countries where there are 2 or 3 cars in 2 colors 
    Do you want to get him started complaining about effete Americans, too much technology, lack of diesels, truck beds too short, difficulties on custom ordering vehciles, and more?  Because that's how you get those complaints.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Huh?
    There are 40something manufacturers that make multiple model cars sold in the US.  They come in several colors. What do you mean no choice?
    Its not like some countries where there are 2 or 3 cars in 2 colors 
    Do you want to get him started complaining about effete Americans, too much technology, lack of diesels, truck beds too short, difficulties on custom ordering vehciles, and more?  Because that's how you get those complaints.
    Hey!  You figured out the “on” switch! 🤣

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,242 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    "Choice" left the automotive biz years ago. Just sayin'.
    Huh?
    There are 40something manufacturers that make multiple model cars sold in the US.  They come in several colors. What do you mean no choice?
    Its not like some countries where there are 2 or 3 cars in 2 colors 
    I think what he is talking about is all the “ideas so good they have become mandatory” that cars are full of.

    Try to buy a new vehicle with no seatbelts, airbags, backup camera, computer controls, emission system, antilock brakes, onstar overlord Illuminati tracking system, etc…

    Trust me, if someone made the functional equivalent of a ‘65 Chevy C10 with air conditioning ONLY, I would buy one in a heartbeat.  But those days are gone, and now if you want a new car- you are buying a computer on wheels.  
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,242 Senior Member
    Back to the original conversation-

    A couple of years ago, I was with my brother when we got the call from my sister “Mom just had a stroke!’.  So my brother and I jumped in my truck and drove the 2.25 hours (125 miles) to get to the hospital.
      As we arrive, we get a call from my sister “They are transferring her to San Antonio!”.  We get to the hospital JUST in time to see her loaded in the back of another ambulance for the transfer to SA.  I was able to pump a few gallons in the tank and drive the hour and half (75ish miles) and got to the hospital to be with my mom as she went into surgery.

    A 100% electric car would have stranded us somewhere along that trip to spend an hour or so to recharge at LEAST once.  Maybe twice.  Not to mention the drive back to Austin in the middle of the night to grab changes of clothes and then head back to San Antonio to be at the hospital with the family.

    I drove a Prius for several years when I was commuting a long distance and taking work driving trips all over Texas.  It was great for that.  Hell- I would have taken it across country if I needed to.  I am NOT against low emissions vehicles.  I am against things like 100% electric vehicles if they will leave me stranded when I need them the most.

    When you can recharge an EV in 10 minutes, let me know.  Because I would love to have a silent truck to sneak up on pigs and varmints.  Till then- meh.

    Also- don't try to make EV mandatory until the fast recharge is fixed.  
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
    "Choice" left the automotive biz years ago. Just sayin'.
    Huh?
    There are 40something manufacturers that make multiple model cars sold in the US.  They come in several colors. What do you mean no choice?
    Its not like some countries where there are 2 or 3 cars in 2 colors 
    I think what he is talking about is all the “ideas so good they have become mandatory” that cars are full of.

    Try to buy a new vehicle with no seatbelts, airbags, backup camera, computer controls, emission system, antilock brakes, onstar overlord Illuminati tracking system, etc…

    Trust me, if someone made the functional equivalent of a ‘65 Chevy C10 with air conditioning ONLY, I would buy one in a heartbeat.  But those days are gone, and now if you want a new car- you are buying a computer on wheels.  
    I get what he says.  It’s his English that’s flawed.  HE doesn’t have any options because only a super small minority of the population wants a basic modern day go-kart and they suffer for it.

    When I bought my Gladiator I had to choose between 5 trim levels, two pages of options and about 10 color choices.  That ONE model of Jeep!!!!!  Lack of options is not a problem in this country.  

    I just drove a brand new rental Camry from Las Vegas to Phoenix and back and it was equipped with “driver assist” which performed well beyond my expectations. As long as I had one hand in the steering wheel I was happily cruising along at 80 miles an hour, texting, taking pictures, FaceTiming my family and picking music out of my Apple Music library. Sure made that drive a pleasure.  The only thing that would have made me happier would have been full self driven so I could have watched a movie or caught a nap.

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • N454casullN454casull Member Posts: 681 Senior Member
    edited October 27 #46
    You may save unless everyone gets one. The cost of power is going up now, and the grid needs rebuilt at the usage we have now. That will be a large expense that we will all pay. The other thing is that some politicians are trying to demand that we all get the one size fits all slave built cars, so having a choice may not be a choice.
    electricity is very very cheap and the grid here is solid no problem. We have enough hydroelectric that we sell massive amounts to California and Colorado. Electricity won’t be the problem here for many years. 

    The problem is the entry price any full EV is outrageously expensive. 

    And again for the long trip no way I’ll stick with my VW Atlas. For towing the boat Ram 2500 Cummins works great. For the 30ish miles a day 5 days a week that my wife and sons drive each I’d absolutely love one. 
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,179 Senior Member

    The problem is the entry price any full EV is outrageously expensive. 

    And it really doesn't have to be - but EFFETE AMERICANS insist on $20K worth of tech - or so we're told. ;):D

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,242 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
     

    I just drove a brand new rental Camry from Las Vegas to Phoenix and back and it was equipped with “driver assist” which performed well beyond my expectations. As long as I had one hand in the steering wheel I was happily cruising along at 80 miles an hour, texting, taking pictures, FaceTiming my family and picking music out of my Apple Music library. Sure made that drive a pleasure.  The only thing that would have made me happier would have been full self driven so I could have watched a movie or caught a nap.
    I enjoy driving, so my fear is that the auto-drive crap will become mandatory. It would reduce an enjoyable drive into the equivalent of riding a bus. Just without the other surly passengers and unwashed homeless. 


    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    zorba said:
     

    I just drove a brand new rental Camry from Las Vegas to Phoenix and back and it was equipped with “driver assist” which performed well beyond my expectations. As long as I had one hand in the steering wheel I was happily cruising along at 80 miles an hour, texting, taking pictures, FaceTiming my family and picking music out of my Apple Music library. Sure made that drive a pleasure.  The only thing that would have made me happier would have been full self driven so I could have watched a movie or caught a nap.
    I enjoy driving, so my fear is that the auto-drive crap will become mandatory. It would reduce an enjoyable drive into the equivalent of riding a bus. Just without the other surly passengers and unwashed homeless. 


    I enjoy driving…. But not for 4.5 hours on a straight road in the desert…. Blue Ridge parkway? I’d never turn in the auto drive.  This drive I just did?  I caught up on a weeks worth of emails and phone calls!

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,089 Senior Member
    zorba said:

    The problem is the entry price any full EV is outrageously expensive. 

    And it really doesn't have to be - but EFFETE AMERICANS insist on $20K worth of tech - or so we're told. ;):D

    That’s not true.  They make EVs that meet all your criteria!  Battery, motor car, that’s it!!! None of that crazy tech and they only cost about $400! 

    Let me know if you need a link.  You’re welcome 😉 


    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,755 Senior Member
    My school district just received a grant yesterday for 11 electric school buses and chargers. Will be interesting to drive one when we get them. Range is supposed to be 100 miles. While our routes are certainly less than 100 miles, I suspect a/c and heat will decrease the range. 
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,595 Senior Member
    I'm sure there are MANY technical hurdles to overcome with this concept, but. . .

    We are at a point where you can charge phones, electric toothbrushes, etc... without a traditional plug-and-socket connection.  Basically, you get the device to be charged very close to the charger, and you charge.

    Seems to me that we could do something similar with cars by laying the charging network underneath the major roadways and the cars could pull from this as they travel - much like with the overhead power lines for urban trolley cars back in the day.  You would then exit the major interstate / freeway / main urban thoroughfare with a full charge to take you over the remaining country roads or suburban side streets to your destination.

    Of course, we're back to the same old problem of what generates the electricity in the first place.  Somebody ask their local unicorn ranch how much their herd farts. :D  
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,807 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I'm sure there are MANY technical hurdles to overcome with this concept, but. . .

    We are at a point where you can charge phones, electric toothbrushes, etc... without a traditional plug-and-socket connection.  Basically, you get the device to be charged very close to the charger, and you charge.

    Seems to me that we could do something similar with cars by laying the charging network underneath the major roadways and the cars could pull from this as they travel - much like with the overhead power lines for urban trolley cars back in the day.  You would then exit the major interstate / freeway / main urban thoroughfare with a full charge to take you over the remaining country roads or suburban side streets to your destination.

    Of course, we're back to the same old problem of what generates the electricity in the first place.  Somebody ask their local unicorn ranch how much their herd farts. :D  
    The problem is every taxpayer gets to pay for something only 5% want/can afford.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,807 Senior Member
    ......... AND...... I drive 37 miles each way for work. Only 5 miles is on a 'main road'
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,179 Senior Member
    So-called "wireless" charging doesn't upscale well. Its VERY lossy. Doesn't make much difference for small things like phones, but larger items are a non starter.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,242 Senior Member
    one gone good thing about EVs… liberals bought them and funded a libertarian buying Twitter and freeing some speech
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 2,513 Senior Member
    A while back, I asked a question of a person who thought EVs were a good deal. What is the cost of operation per mile? The EV companies say, "You'll save on gas." This is true but, if the cost of operation per mile were less than a gas car, they would be screaming it to the high heaven! 

    I also believe these charging stations will not be free very soon. The cost of electricity and infrastructure will have to be recuperated. 

    The cost of electricity is skyrocketing, and in addition to the cost of the EV, is it more cost-effective than an efficient gas vehicle? 

    Unless we use solar, wind, or nuclear power, we have to burn fossil fuel to generate the electricity. Using fossil fuels, it takes more energy to generate the energy you will use. 

    I have 54 feet of southern facing roof on my house and plenty of space under my room addition for batteries, so researched solar panels. The only advantage I found was, no electric bill. I can not sell the excess power I generate. It would take 15 years to recuperate my investment.      NO ...Not even with an EV.

    I believe we're barking up the wrong tree! Ceramic motors and hydrogen fuel would be a better solution. The questions I have is does hydrogen have the necessary BTUs?  What would the cost of operation be? Could the consumer generate their own hydrogen?
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    edited October 29 #58
    The problem with hydrogen, from what I've been told and read, is that it takes more energy to make it than you get in hydrogen. And unless you're using nuclear power for hydrolysis, you also generate a lot of carbon dioxide.

    There's also storage issues for high pressure gas and other things. 

    As far as infrastructure goes, anything new will have it. It's not like gas stations predated cars - they sprang up AFTER the tech started to catch on and were shown to be economically viable. 
    I'm just here for snark.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 6,052 Senior Member
    Freezer said:
    A while back, I asked a question of a person who thought EVs were a good deal. What is the cost of operation per mile? The EV companies say, "You'll save on gas." This is true but, if the cost of operation per mile were less than a gas car, they would be screaming it to the high heaven! 
    I ran some rough numbers back when I was considering a PHEV for my next vehicle, and IIRC over the course of 10 years of ownership a RAV4 Prime ended up costing about 1/2-2/3 all in cost per mile over a Rav4 Hybrid. That was within calculating depreciation and maintenance, and IIRC 12¢ per kilowatt and 1/3 all electric driving. 
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,184 Senior Member
    I was traveling this AM to get the farthest thing from an EV and I heard a thing about the pollution generated by EV's battery creation vs ICE. You will have to drive an absolute minimum of 20K miles on nothing but wind and solar produced electricity to even out with an ICE engine. Normal would be about 50K for an avg in the US. After that the EV is on par with the pollution caused by mining rare earth minerals with slaves.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 2,513 Senior Member

    As far as infrastructure goes, anything new will have it. It's not like gas stations predated cars - they sprang up AFTER the tech started to catch on and were shown to be economically viable. 
    This is true, my point is the charging station will not be free. That will drive up the cost of operation. In addition, the price of electricity has increased by 1/3 this year. With increased demand goes increased prices.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
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