Zee and Grape Ape's posts both have a lot of validity - the best way to think of this round is that it is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't.
In my playing around with varied bullet construction in quasi-scientific terminal testing on the dreaded Milk Jug Hordes, I would add that there is a lot of potential usefulness within the B.O.s envelope of diameter, throw weight, and speed.
This is my blown out .32-20 Martini Cadet wildcat, which you can see is not un-Blackout-like. The bullets are from it's first mold - a 130 grain .320" diameter with about a .25" meplat. The two fired ones were of hard and softer alloys shot with an identical load at 1250 fps The soft one stopped in three jugs (about what you see from a 230 grain .45ACP hollow point), where the hard one went for nine. My final load ended up being the hard bullet at 1570fps, so you can regard the round as a warm .357 with more sectional density.
Hodgdon's data center suggests that the Blackout should be able to push blunt and 150 and 170 grain bullets to about 2,000 and 1800 fps, respectively, so it's basically a .30-30 minus about 50 yards. Not much in the short range deer and pig arena that shouldn't handle.
Obviously, this is more of a cast-bullet statement, but there is much potential for economical fun with a round like this. It doesn't consume a lot of your resources; it doesn't beat you up; and to 150 yards or so, it ruptures water bottles in an amusing way that .22's don't.
I have one 300BO, and it is a goofy homemade copy of the “Solo300” pistol. I only use it for shooting suppressed, and usually for shooting squirrels off the feeder legs when I’m deer hunting.
For serious work, I’d rather just use the 7.62x39. Pretty much identical supersonic ballistics, and I have a bunch of guns and ammo for that.
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I have one 300BO, and it is a goofy homemade copy of the “Solo300” pistol. I only use it for shooting suppressed, and usually for shooting squirrels off the feeder legs when I’m deer hunting.
For serious work, I’d rather just use the 7.62x39. Pretty much identical supersonic ballistics, and I have a bunch of guns and ammo for that.
For some reason I thought you were a 6.8 hunter
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
I'm so happy I come here, you guys provide so many rabbit holes to explore. Zee's ability to stir a pot and raise a stink gets me thinking. Too bad Snake isn't here to defend his favorite squirrel gun.
I started last night researching the difference between 243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmoor. I believe the difference is a hair split, with the edge going to the Creedmoor because of it's heavier bullet selection for larger game and better wind drift resistance. So this morning I went in again, this time exploring the other branch of the same hole, 260 Rem vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 6.5 Sweed. Again a true hair split but given a choice I'd have to choose the Creedmoor, not because it's better than the 260 but because of availability and that is because of Remington's inept marketing. It is so typical of Remington! 7mm Express (280 Rem) vs 270 Win, 6mm Rem vs 243 Win. Both Remington cartridges were better, but Remington......
Freezer, if you're splitting hairs, you might as well add the Italian and Japanese 6.5mm's into your pile. If you can find the deer who can tell the difference between the impact of any of them, I'd like to read your dissertation.
So many rounds doing effectively the same thing, I'm mostly coming down on the side of which wins the logistics battle for availability of brass and other components. Some may call the .308 and .30-06 "boring", but they're the ones bitching about shortages, not me.
The Blackout's pretty clever in this regard - it'll use 5.56 brass as a parent case, use a standard AR bolt and mags, and can probably use any (or almost any) .308 bullet from the little M1 Carbine to the 220 grain Krag slug.
It's also fairly unique for our time in that it's dancing around the capabilities of the old 1873 Winchester / Colt Peacemaker combo cartridges. Not flashy, but those rounds made a lot of meat.
The metric system in American firearms wasn't accepted until recent times, thus one of the reason for renaming the 7mm Express. After WWII 6.5 ****. ammo was hard to get, so a lot of sporterized type 38s were reamed to 6.5-257 Roberts. The weird oval rifling didn't add to it popularity, and the big safety knob on ****. didn't make it a desirable sporter. I doubt is potential was ever explored. There was also the prejudice in this country of "Japanese junk". The Carcano never got any respect, even though Oswald proved it was an accurate enough rifle.
From what I read, the BO is a specialty cartridge that was developed for silenced sub sonic applications. It has good knock down power in its sub sonic configuration for quiet, close quarters use. It does this far better than the 223 which becomes no better than a .22 LR at subsonic velocities. Trying to make the BO perform well in supersonic applications is like asking a 250 Chevy to perform like a 350 Chevy, the results will be disappointing. Both are good for what they were designed for, but they are different and operate well within their design parameters.
That said, I have no need or desire for a 300 BO. For me, it's an expensive toy with little or no practical hunting application.
From what I read, the BO is a specialty cartridge that was developed for silenced sub sonic applications. It has good knock down power in its sub sonic configuration for quiet, close quarters use. It does this far better than the 223 which becomes no better than a .22 LR at subsonic velocities. Trying to make the BO perform well in supersonic applications is like asking a 250 Chevy to perform like a 350 Chevy, the results will be disappointing. Both are good for what they were designed for, but they are different and operate well within their design parameters.
That said, I have no need or desire for a 300 BO. For me, it's an expensive toy with little or no practical hunting application.
@Freezer. There are a lot of dead deer and hogs that would argue with you. Expensive? Compared to? While you aren't going to be shooting over bean fields or across canyons with a .300 BO, within its capabilities, in my mind less than 175 yards, there isn't anything I would hesitate to hunt with it besides maybe bear in my area.
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
Useful for hunting is not a metric everyone applies to their cartridge choices, tho several here have proven the B/O has the chops for it. I myself fine more enjoyment at the bench these days than in the field and at the bench, accurate and mild mannered win the day. After sampling Elk Creeks B/O options and enjoying them, I would probably own one if I did not have options in the similar 7.62x39 already. The B/O is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It was a real head scratcher for me on paper but then I shot it and it made me smile.
Useful for hunting is not a metric everyone applies to their cartridge choices, tho several here have proven the B/O has the chops for it. I myself fine more enjoyment at the bench these days than in the field and at the bench, accurate and mild mannered win the day. After sampling Elk Creeks B/O options and enjoying them, I would probably own one if I did not have options in the similar 7.62x39 already. The B/O is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It was a real head scratcher for me on paper but then I shot it and it made me smile.
And that’s ALL that matters 👍 I just spent 4 hours of range time playing with two .22 OLD rifles and my 45-60. Nothing but punching holes on paper and ringing steel. It’ll take a week to wipe the stupid grin off my face 😁
Useful for hunting is not a metric everyone applies to their cartridge choices, tho several here have proven the B/O has the chops for it. I myself fine more enjoyment at the bench these days than in the field and at the bench, accurate and mild mannered win the day. After sampling Elk Creeks B/O options and enjoying them, I would probably own one if I did not have options in the similar 7.62x39 already. The B/O is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It was a real head scratcher for me on paper but then I shot it and it made me smile.
And that’s ALL that matters 👍 I just spent 4 hours of range time playing with two .22 OLD rifles and my 45-60. Nothing but punching holes on paper and ringing steel. It’ll take a week to wipe the stupid grin off my face 😁
For me it will always be hard to top plinking with the old reliable .22 pistol.
- I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
They all work fine if you keep to the performance parameters and use the correct bullet. Game dies and can’t tell the difference…
You made my point well. What it was designed for is one thing, will it do is another? Yes, within a very narrow window, smaller than the venerable 30-30. Is it a blast to shoot? Sure, so is a .22.
My point is I won't knock the round and what it was designed for, for me, it's meh. It was very informative and interesting researching the round, it certainly fills the specific niche it was designed for very well.
For that matter, you could say the same for a 270 will it kill a squirrel at 20 yards? Heck yea. Will it kill Punxsutawney Phill at 25 yards? Nobody killed that lying little rodent with a 270 yet!
Useful for hunting is not a metric everyone applies to their cartridge choices, tho several here have proven the B/O has the chops for it. I myself fine more enjoyment at the bench these days than in the field and at the bench, accurate and mild mannered win the day. After sampling Elk Creeks B/O options and enjoying them, I would probably own one if I did not have options in the similar 7.62x39 already. The B/O is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It was a real head scratcher for me on paper but then I shot it and it made me smile.
And that’s ALL that matters 👍 I just spent 4 hours of range time playing with two .22 OLD rifles and my 45-60. Nothing but punching holes on paper and ringing steel. It’ll take a week to wipe the stupid grin off my face 😁
For me it will always be hard to top plinking with the old reliable .22 pistol.
Oh I’ll run the old Mark 1s until my thumb is sore from loading 🤣
They all work fine if you keep to the performance parameters and use the correct bullet. Game dies and can’t tell the difference…
You made my point well. What it was designed for is one thing, will it do is another? Yes, within a very narrow window, smaller than the venerable 30-30. Is it a blast to shoot? Sure, so is a .22.
My point is I won't knock the round and what it was designed for, for me, it's meh. It was very informative and interesting researching the round, it certainly fills the specific niche it was designed for very well.
For that matter, you could say the same for a 270 will it kill a squirrel at 20 yards? Heck yea. Will it kill Punxsutawney Phill at 25 yards? Nobody killed that lying little rodent with a 270 yet!
It’s a cool little round that with the right bullet will do whatever you need it to do, again within reason. I would have killed for little Model 7 when I was getting the kids into hunting in the NE woods where a long shot is 100 yards and even those are uncommon, and .30 125gr SP would have done the trick with negligible recoil all day long. Tons of deer in NY State have been taken over the years with M1 Carbines by old timers who used to buy them for $100 as surplus from old Army-Navy stores upstate, back when they came in crates all the way through the 60s.
I have something similar, it locks on the bottom of the mag. I just need to locate them. I was so happy when I bought my first at a gun show! My mkII target is my favorite gun.
I’m so used to just using my thumb it doesn’t even bother me anymore. I load 10 mags at a time and then run the Glock 44s until a brick dies or I need a bandaid for my fingers 😁
Replies
Zee and Grape Ape's posts both have a lot of validity - the best way to think of this round is that it is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't.
In my playing around with varied bullet construction in quasi-scientific terminal testing on the dreaded Milk Jug Hordes, I would add that there is a lot of potential usefulness within the B.O.s envelope of diameter, throw weight, and speed.
This is my blown out .32-20 Martini Cadet wildcat, which you can see is not un-Blackout-like. The bullets are from it's first mold - a 130 grain .320" diameter with about a .25" meplat. The two fired ones were of hard and softer alloys shot with an identical load at 1250 fps The soft one stopped in three jugs (about what you see from a 230 grain .45ACP hollow point), where the hard one went for nine. My final load ended up being the hard bullet at 1570fps, so you can regard the round as a warm .357 with more sectional density.
Hodgdon's data center suggests that the Blackout should be able to push blunt and 150 and 170 grain bullets to about 2,000 and 1800 fps, respectively, so it's basically a .30-30 minus about 50 yards. Not much in the short range deer and pig arena that shouldn't handle.
Obviously, this is more of a cast-bullet statement, but there is much potential for economical fun with a round like this. It doesn't consume a lot of your resources; it doesn't beat you up; and to 150 yards or so, it ruptures water bottles in an amusing way that .22's don't.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I started last night researching the difference between 243 Win vs 6.5 Creedmoor. I believe the difference is a hair split, with the edge going to the Creedmoor because of it's heavier bullet selection for larger game and better wind drift resistance. So this morning I went in again, this time exploring the other branch of the same hole, 260 Rem vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 6.5 Sweed. Again a true hair split but given a choice I'd have to choose the Creedmoor, not because it's better than the 260 but because of availability and that is because of Remington's inept marketing. It is so typical of Remington! 7mm Express (280 Rem) vs 270 Win, 6mm Rem vs 243 Win. Both Remington cartridges were better, but Remington......
I found a great article this morning:
https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/260-remington-vs-6-5-creedmoor-vs-6-5x55-swede/
So many rounds doing effectively the same thing, I'm mostly coming down on the side of which wins the logistics battle for availability of brass and other components. Some may call the .308 and .30-06 "boring", but they're the ones bitching about shortages, not me.
The Blackout's pretty clever in this regard - it'll use 5.56 brass as a parent case, use a standard AR bolt and mags, and can probably use any (or almost any) .308 bullet from the little M1 Carbine to the 220 grain Krag slug.
It's also fairly unique for our time in that it's dancing around the capabilities of the old 1873 Winchester / Colt Peacemaker combo cartridges. Not flashy, but those rounds made a lot of meat.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
From what I read, the BO is a specialty cartridge that was developed for silenced sub sonic applications. It has good knock down power in its sub sonic configuration for quiet, close quarters use. It does this far better than the 223 which becomes no better than a .22 LR at subsonic velocities. Trying to make the BO perform well in supersonic applications is like asking a 250 Chevy to perform like a 350 Chevy, the results will be disappointing. Both are good for what they were designed for, but they are different and operate well within their design parameters.
That said, I have no need or desire for a 300 BO. For me, it's an expensive toy with little or no practical hunting application.
Depends on what you expect a hunting round to do.
Expensive? Compared to?
While you aren't going to be shooting over bean fields or across canyons with a .300 BO, within its capabilities, in my mind less than 175 yards, there isn't anything I would hesitate to hunt with it besides maybe bear in my area.
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
The B/O is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. It was a real head scratcher for me on paper but then I shot it and it made me smile.
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
My point is I won't knock the round and what it was designed for, for me, it's meh. It was very informative and interesting researching the round, it certainly fills the specific niche it was designed for very well.
For that matter, you could say the same for a 270 will it kill a squirrel at 20 yards? Heck yea. Will it kill Punxsutawney Phill at 25 yards? Nobody killed that lying little rodent with a 270 yet!
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
Paul
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎
It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎