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JerryBobCo
Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
Bad or impractical hunting/fishing regulation?
JerryBobCo
Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
The sidetrack (thanks, Snake) in the camp meat thread gave me this idea. So, if you don't like it, blame him and the war monkey.
Anyway, I thought it might be fun, and even educational, to have a thread like this. Perhaps some misconceptions can be cleared up, and it even might be kind of fun to see what we used to have to deal with, etc.
I'll start with what I consider to a bad reg. Years ago, I remember reading this in Sports Afield, or a similar magazine. The article was about stupid game laws, or something like that. One of the stupid laws in some states was the requirement to tag your downed game immediately, regardless of where it was killed. The stupid part had to do with the possibility of losing your tag, while attached to your kill, while dragging or carrying it through thick cover or over rough terrain. I understand the purpose of the law, but it could have been implemented differently. In Colorado today, you have to 'validate' your tag by tearing of the carcass tag portion as soon as you recover your kill. However, you don't have to attach it to the animal until you get it to a place where it's reasonable to do so. An improvement, in my opinion.
Which brings me to a slightly impractical reg. Also in Colorado, to validate your tag, you have to sign it. The tags are printed on a tough, glossy material that doesn't accept pen and ink well, so it's kind of difficult to sign it at best. Plus, you need to have a pen or pencil with you while hunting. I suppose that's no big deal, and I usually carry one, but it could be a hassle for some. I remember getting stopped by a game warden once while I was driving out with a deer I had shot. He checked me out, and noticed that I had failed to sign my tag. I had simply overlooked it. He was gracious about it, though, and allowed me to sign it there as I had done everything else right. He also told me that some wardens would not be so generous, and to make sure I signed me tag from then on.
I also think some of the laws that prohibit the taking of spike bucks, require that a buck's antlers have a certain spread minimum, etc. can lead to problems. I have no doubt that all such regulations were well intended when instituted, but I wonder if the powers that be really thought it through.
Next.
Anyway, I thought it might be fun, and even educational, to have a thread like this. Perhaps some misconceptions can be cleared up, and it even might be kind of fun to see what we used to have to deal with, etc.
I'll start with what I consider to a bad reg. Years ago, I remember reading this in Sports Afield, or a similar magazine. The article was about stupid game laws, or something like that. One of the stupid laws in some states was the requirement to tag your downed game immediately, regardless of where it was killed. The stupid part had to do with the possibility of losing your tag, while attached to your kill, while dragging or carrying it through thick cover or over rough terrain. I understand the purpose of the law, but it could have been implemented differently. In Colorado today, you have to 'validate' your tag by tearing of the carcass tag portion as soon as you recover your kill. However, you don't have to attach it to the animal until you get it to a place where it's reasonable to do so. An improvement, in my opinion.
Which brings me to a slightly impractical reg. Also in Colorado, to validate your tag, you have to sign it. The tags are printed on a tough, glossy material that doesn't accept pen and ink well, so it's kind of difficult to sign it at best. Plus, you need to have a pen or pencil with you while hunting. I suppose that's no big deal, and I usually carry one, but it could be a hassle for some. I remember getting stopped by a game warden once while I was driving out with a deer I had shot. He checked me out, and noticed that I had failed to sign my tag. I had simply overlooked it. He was gracious about it, though, and allowed me to sign it there as I had done everything else right. He also told me that some wardens would not be so generous, and to make sure I signed me tag from then on.
I also think some of the laws that prohibit the taking of spike bucks, require that a buck's antlers have a certain spread minimum, etc. can lead to problems. I have no doubt that all such regulations were well intended when instituted, but I wonder if the powers that be really thought it through.
Next.
Jerry
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
Replies
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I have a similar game warden story from my first and only antelope hunt in Colorado. Which also was my first ever big game kill. I had shot a doe and my dad was teaching me how to field dress it out. It had required a finishing shot which I delivered to the head with my .357mag. Kind of made the head messy so I just took it off. While working on the other end I made the mistake of cutting off the teats as well. Beginners mistake. I signed and properly tagged the carcass and dragged it back to the truck.
The game warden had heard the shot and was waiting at the gate as we headed out of the field. He of coarse stopped us, checked guns, permits and the carcass. He noticed my mistake and after a lecture made me show him the gut pile.
He did not cite me for anything for which I was happy but seriously, it seemed a bit much when I held the tag I did.
Sako
Yeah that annoys me. We tried to fix that one in MT but it got killed in house because "they don't want poachers running around silently killing things". I have sense emailed the sponsors or the bill with documented info on rifle dB levels and what a well made suppressor will do for that (which isn't much) they hope to re-submit and have it passed next year
What really annoys me in MT is the 2 deer a year limit when they are all over the road side dead all the time. Just give us 1 more tag, that's all I'm askin
Yes. I'm sure those poachers are terribly concerned about the legal status of the gear they use for their illegal activities. :roll:
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
If there's point or antler/horn size restriction on the bucks/bulls, I can see why you need to keep and/or evidence of sex. Otherwise, it seems pretty silly to me.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
lol yeah no kiddin but that argument doesn't work. Just need to show them that a suppressor does NOT make you silent. Gemtech offers 32dB reduction from the 150-170 your rifle puts out with super sonic ammo. That is still loud enough to be painful. Even with sub sonic you're still going to be hitting around 80-90dB. Just trying to play their game.
As to not side track too much. A good reg we have here: the fish and bird limits are daily with posession being twice daily. I asked a warden just to make sure and he said so long as you're eating them and you don't currently hold the limit you can keep on shootin em. So if you like birds and fish which I do, you can really go nuts on them.
1. put the tag in a plastic parts bag and used electrical tape to cover it in tape on an antler.
2. Use a small parts bag, tie the tag inside an ear, and then tie the ear closed like a pouch with string.
Now instead of tags we have a sheet of tags that do not tear off and all we need to do is punch out the punch here hole and we're good to go until we get to a phone and call in for a registration number to write on the sheet on the line for the respective punched out hole.
We can do that here as of this year...but there are still folks out there who believe that everyone should be restricted because of the few who would use it to poach deer....
Actually, most of the guys that are inclined to take deer illegally couldn't afford a suppressor...
Exactly why I do not totally disagree with it. Where points are an issue it becomes a needed rule. In the case of antelope as I recall, the difference between a buck and doe was determined by horn length. Under a set length was considered doe and over buck. That was in 1983, may be different now. I guess my point was that without points in the picture and an ether sex tag, why the ranger bothered with the scolding and inspection of gut pile puzzles me. He was not wrong, I just don't think it was necessary.
Sako
Also, I think it is down right **** that you can only shoot a mule or white tail buck, not both. Even though they are almost completely hunted in different areas, separated by hours of driving, and hunted at different peak times. Why have nearly what, 8 seasons(?) for deer, but you can normally shoot just one. They started making white tail only seasons, but why the heck not make that a different tag you could hold AS WELL as a mule deer tag?!?
I agree with havng attach the tag to the carcass in some states, whic his definitely asking for it to get lost in the woods and anotherwise honest hunter getting ticketed in the WMA parking area. Nebraksa has thankfully made the requirement that you immediately cancel the tag, but only that you have it on you while in posesion of the carcass. No need to affix it to the kill.
One game law that I find absolutely insane is Texas' minimum spread requirement. How is it practical (or even ethical) to REQUIRE a hunter to meet a criteria that is impossible to verify for certain until AFTER the animal is killed??? That's madness, in my estimation and nothing more thn an easy way to boost fine revenue. To make it worse, my understading is that the closer the deer gets to being legal the higher the fine. Wow. I have no words for that one.
One law I find impractical is in Colorado. Where you can only purchase one elk or deer tag. What if a fellow likes to bowhunt and rifle hunt? He's out of luck. Bow hunting elk is a serious crapshoot, most OTC units have success rates under 10%, and they only edge up to 12-13% with over 10 days afield. It's pretty much like donating $554 to the state to go carry a bow around in the mountains. I know about the B and C licenses, but it's silly. It's not too far of a stretch to think that people from all over could bow hunt in August, then come back for rifle in Oct/Nov. It sure would put a lot of money in the states' pockets. If they were worried about over hunting, they could limit tag numbers by success ratio.
This is more of the Bunny Huggers trying to stop us from hunting and fishing. It reminds me of the stupid Whooping Cranes. The Aransas National Wildlife Refuge is the winter home of the Whooping Cranes. That's across San Antonio Bay to the west from Seadrift TX where I lived and went to school from age 7 until I was 13 and where my great grand parents lived and had an old hotel on the bay front. Anyway, not to get sidetracked but the Barrier Island that separates the mainland there and the Gulf of Mexico is Matagorda Island. It's about 45 miles long and runs from Port O'Connor almost to Rockport. The Hawes Family owned the north half of the Island until WWII and the Government took their land through Eminent Domain. However they told them it was only for war time use and when they were through with it they would sell it back to them at fair market value. Mind you back then a hand shake agreement was a persons word and they honored it. This is all they had was a handshake agreement, no written documents. Well their land was never given back and there was an airforce base on it until the late 70s. After this they gave the land to the state as a wildlife management area. However, when the feds took it over they told the Hawes family they would have permanent grazing rights for their cattle and they could continue to maintain the ranch house there. Well in the meantime as the Whooping Crane population sort of made a comeback (There were about 30 in the wild when I was in Elementary School, but in the 70s the population had tripled. Now I believe there may be as many as 200 (in the wild). And as their numbers expanded, a few would take up housekeeping on the Island, which was just across the Intercoastal Canal. This was no more than 4 or 5. But the Bunny Huggers started a campaign to remove all human activity off that part of the Island. So the Hawes were kicked off the land they had ranched on for over 100 years. They had been granted permanent grazing rights, but this was forgotten and they were kicked off completely. All because some idiot Bunny Huggers were worried that the stupid Whooping Cranes would be affected with a human presence. I remember, Joe Hawes was the family patriarch in the 70s thru the 90s and at one point he was going to Washington about once a month trying to get their land or at least part of it back. At that time there were exactly 50 Whooping Cranes left in the wild. He said they should kill em all, stuff em and give one to each state, LOL!!! I think it would have saved the American Tax Payers millions of dollars. Anyway, these people must be stopped before they are the ruination of us all.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I like that idea. Here in Texas now you don't have to have a pencil or pen. The dates are on the tag. Each month has a little triangular panel and each day has one. What you do is cut the month and the day it was killed out on the tag (most of us will have some form of knife on our person when hunting). But the stupid thing here is they still want you to tag the thing when it hits the ground. This is insane. If you cut the date out of the tag, then you have already dedicated that tag to that animal. This should be plenty.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
This is from the IL-DNR
"A crossbow device is illegal except for: a) Permanently disabled persons, as defined by law (520 ILCS 5/2.33), may apply to the IDNRʼs Office of Law Enforcement (217-782-6431) for an exemption to allow the use of a crossbow (a physicianʼs certification is required); or b) Persons age 62 and older may hunt with use of a crossbow without first obtaining a crossbow permit. A valid photo i.d. with proof of age must be carried by persons age 62 and older."
We have that one here as well. Their stance, is that it is a "primitive" weapons season, so no optics at all. Heck it wasn't that long ago inlines were illegal as well, as well as fiber optic or painted sights. Still can't use sabots here either. Nor pellets. Loose powder, balls or conicals, open sights, no breech loading BP. 209's are legal, though.
Might want to check those regs again. You still have to write the name of the ranch and the county on the tag, AND log the deer on the back of the main license. I know hunters who have gotten a ticket for not logging the deer on the license.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I agree Paul....pretty darn silly...
While we don't have a fraction of the hog problem you guys have, there are some down on the KS/OK border that are causing problems. In KS the admittedly problem feral hogs are managed by the Department of Agriculture so to shoot one you need to get a permit from the Ag folks - up until last year, you could not even shoot one on your own property without one of those silly permits. The "rationale" behind all this is that the fish and game folks don't want hog hunting to become a sport. In my opinion they should be treated like coyotes which can be pretty much taken anywhere/anytime...
As has already been mentioned, Colorado has a similar regulation. And, I like it.
If you want to hunt for 2 weeks during the early fall during the peak of the elk rut, you have to use archery equipment or a muzzle loader. Instead of calling it muzzle loader season, though, I wish it were primitive weapon season and restricted to traditional front stuffers with either flintlock ignition or percussion cap, and iron sights only.
If you want to use a modern black powder rifle with scopes, breach loading, etc., use it during the centerfire rifle season.
That's just my opinion, of course, and it appears that the CDOW has tried to make a compromise to suit everyone. Of course, this pleases no one, so it must be a pretty good compromise.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
To purchase a second deer tag, we must pay the nonresident fee of $301.75!
Snaring of snoeshow hares is prohibited, but we can snare gray wolves.
Idaho does not require black bear carcasses to be removed from the field. Only skins, skulls, and proof of sex.
Adam J. McCleod
Jerry
Here in CO Jerry, regardless of the rules, we have NO lack of hunters buying tags! A lot of people were very angry CO was so "behind the times" allowing inlines, let alone shotgun primers.
Personally....I'm torn on the subject. I mean, CDOW keeps moaning and groaning about the number of elk, and our relatively low success rate compared to the number of elk...yet, they always do stupid things to keep MORE people from coming here and REDUCING the number of elk!
What I'd like to see, is a "primitive" season, for more traditional front stuffers and archery...BUT, add another "non centerfire rifle" season for maybe the last week of the normal elk rut, and open it to modern ML's and centerfire handguns. I think that would be a very popular season. I think modern ML's and centerfire handguns would match up nicely, both are likely good up to the 150-MAYBE 200 yard mark, but mostly 100-150 yard, which is a bit more then traditional ML and archery. But, still not in the same class as normal rifles. Allow pellet powder, sabots, scopes...whatever.
You know I was just thinking about all of that when I was posting, I posted, and there was your post!
I find it a bit stupid that archers can use the absolute greatest latest technology without nearly ANY restrictions...but a muzzle loader can't have a sabot, it can't use pelletized powder, and it can't use any optics. But archers have unlimited amount of the latest-greatest at their disposal.
Jerry