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smartina
Posts: 6 New Member
instructor behavior
smartina
Posts: 6 New Member
I just took my first shooting lesson from someone listed on the NRA site as a certified instructor. (Prior to this lesson, I have been watching videos from the "Gun Talk/TV" series and watching and listening to my husband, who is a very patient man.) So, this instrucotr did a couple of things that I am not sure about, with regard to appropriateness.
First, he asked if he could shoot my pistol (Colt, New Agent 1911 9mm, with fewer than 200 rounds shot through it) and proceeded to empty the magazine at the target, before I even had my ear protection on. He told me it was a nice gun and that there was nothing wrong with it. We then spent about 20-30 minutes on holding the pistol, stances, and he was accurate in determining that my tendency was to anticipate the recoil, and prior to squeezing the trigger, I was jerking the muzzle downward a little.
Then he brought out a revolver of his, asked me to shoot it. Then he brought out his own 9mm with a Crimson Trace sight, loaded it with my ammo, and shot it and asked me to try it. I did fire it, but thought it was more of a distraction than anything else.
Here are my questions: ought I have called for references? Is it normal for him to shoot my pistol? Is it normal for him to load my ammo in his gun? Is there any set of guidelines that a new student might read to assess the quality of the lesson? Are there guidelines that an instructor is required to follow? I brought 100 rounds and we shot all but five; he wanted me to bring some hollow points, but I told him they were a lot more expensive, and he disagreed with me.
First, he asked if he could shoot my pistol (Colt, New Agent 1911 9mm, with fewer than 200 rounds shot through it) and proceeded to empty the magazine at the target, before I even had my ear protection on. He told me it was a nice gun and that there was nothing wrong with it. We then spent about 20-30 minutes on holding the pistol, stances, and he was accurate in determining that my tendency was to anticipate the recoil, and prior to squeezing the trigger, I was jerking the muzzle downward a little.
Then he brought out a revolver of his, asked me to shoot it. Then he brought out his own 9mm with a Crimson Trace sight, loaded it with my ammo, and shot it and asked me to try it. I did fire it, but thought it was more of a distraction than anything else.
Here are my questions: ought I have called for references? Is it normal for him to shoot my pistol? Is it normal for him to load my ammo in his gun? Is there any set of guidelines that a new student might read to assess the quality of the lesson? Are there guidelines that an instructor is required to follow? I brought 100 rounds and we shot all but five; he wanted me to bring some hollow points, but I told him they were a lot more expensive, and he disagreed with me.
Replies
All "instructors" are not created equal....and the rating system goes from "great" to "awful". I have actually traveled across the country to attend training and found the highly touted instructor so bad, I packed my bags and left....
Some are good at training guys but not so good at training females, because they have yet to learn that females, in general, learn differently than men and the need to leave their male egos at home.
NRA provides a "lesson plan" for their instructors to follow, but all instructors have their own teaching styles...
My best advice to you is to find a female instructor in your area...you may well do better in that environment...The range my wife used to work at featured a "ladies night" on Fridays, where the instructors and range officers were all female....very successful for all concerned...
Sako
I don't know where your located but I would check into something aimed at women.
Seems like you got an NRA instructor that has the special shoes. The instructor you got is bad, look elsewhere.
Unfortunately NRA doesn't do any kind of test on whether or not an "instructor" has an unstable ego, which quite a few seem to have; this is a power trip for them.
When I went thru the required class to obtain my carry permit back in the day, it was also one-on-one, and the NRA Certified Instructor told me so many things that were patently wrong, I just had to hold my tongue, finish the "class," and get my ticket punched. (I'd been shooting since before the clown was born!)
I don't know where you're located, but check www.womensshootingacademy.com in Nevada.
NRA Endowment Member
If there was a need to test a student firearm, this was explained, the reason why a test is needed, I had female students, in Law Enforcement it is not an issue, the need to maintain a Professional demeanor is an issue.
My certification is through the NRA, but My Instructor was a Chief of the Department of Probation, and he taught Our small class much more than was was on the Official syllabus, Professionalism was stressed too.
Sticking to a structured well put together lesson plan sans War stories and pithy advice is important, the States relevant penal code and the guidelines for justifiable use of force are more important.
Generally, you can get an idea what type of Instructor you have by the first class, and then decide if you may need another better qualified Instructor.
Welcome aboard
Your instructor should have spent a considerable amount of time off-range with you, explaining what he expected you to learn, before either one of you ever fired a round. Firing your gun before you had proper ear protection was a gross breach of range etiquette, no matter what his reasons for doing so might be. Shooting up all your ammo, and insisting that you buy more expensive stuff- - - - -wrong again! Any instructor worthy of the name will probably take an entirely different approach- - - - -if not, you need to keep looking. It's your time and money you're investing, so don't be reluctant to expect better. Ask questions, explain what you'd like to learn, and be sure the person providing the training has a good understanding of what you expect to gain from the instruction. If that's not what they intend to provide, keep shopping around!
Jerry
You're going to Thunder Ranch? I am green with envy. And welcome from a fellow Oregonian(actually a transplanted Hawaii boy).
My plan is to join the pistol club that is available 24/7, albeit about 45 minutes from home. The cost is only $50./year and it's indoor.
On a more upbeat note, I learned today that GREAT ear protection is essential to me; I hate the loud sound of the pistol. So today I wore "in-lobe" plugs PLUS muffs and was completely happy, even when husband was shooting the 45s. Thanks again.
Jerry
Just from a professional stand, smartina, I do think that some behavior was quite questionable. Let's hope you have more luck and enjoyment on your upcoming adventure. As for jamming and issues, the right pistol does help as well. I started out with the 380 version of James Bond's Walther PPK/S, but having at least two jams each clip, I changed to a Glock 17. After over 500 rounds - nothing. Not a single hitch whatsoever. My wish would now be for Glock to manufacture a single stack, concealable pistol with the same reliability and quality. That would be awesome. Anyways, good luck and welcome from a to Texas transplanted Sacramentan from Germany.
Welcome aboard
Teach; I agree with ya 100% and more... And welcome to the forum smartina you got a question, this is the place for an answer when it comes to guns and ammo.
Most shooters that shoot a lot, treat ammo like pennies. I shoot 400 - 500 rounds a week and don't give much thought to the cost. I am a competitive shooter and I am constantly trying to improve. So, he too may not see the "value" of that ammo from your perspective. It was rude though not to ask first.
Shooting different guns can provide indicators as to what is being done wrong during the shot process. This is a tool we all use, mostly on ourselves, to figure things out. It is not really a bad thing to shoot someone else' gun. It is an opportunity to learn more.
As with any teacher or instructor, you have to have full confidence and respect for the person otherwise you are wasting your time and money. Find another instructor who you feel more comfortable with.
Chris
He sounds a little odd. Perhaps he knows his stuff, but he shouldn't have used up "your" ammo. It was your ammo for your practice. I would have used the cheapest practice ammo possible for familiarization and told you that if you intend to use defensive ammo, you can do it on your own time, but not to carry defensive ammo in the gun until you've put 100 to 200 rounds of it through your gun without a hitch. I'd rather you be hitting the target with ball first. Defensive ammo can come after you've mastered your weapon.
As for shooting your pistol, I would also want to shoot your pistol to make sure you had a weapon that was sighted in properly, but I would not have used your ammo. I would have determined what you were going to bring and I would have brought the appropriate ammo along if I intended to fire your weapon.
Dan
+1, seems that to get the NRA "instructor" certification all it takes is to pay your money, attend and go through the motions, never taken the course myself as for what I see from those that are "certified" is a very tall flag coming up that is not worth the time, money or expense, I surely expected a lot more from the NRA.
The not checking if you had ear protection on while he shoot YOUR gun is a big no-no flag on my book, even shooting your gun would make me wonder about an instructor unless if by chance it was some very rare gun and he had politely made a point of asking if he could try it as he had never seen one.
When you get your permit here in Puerto Rico and every 5 years when you renew your permit you must take a course on the law and gun safety that includes a shooting section, one local instructor when he finishes tells the entire class to put their guns on the bench and to leave 5 round of ammo for him, he then proceeds to shoot every gun so he can SHOW OFF how good a shot he is.
Saw another guy one give a "defense" class to what where clearly beginners and he had them unholster and shoot from the hip at an indoor range with divisions on both sides, he had the students stand a few feet from the divisions and he did not even bother to make it an even line, some where feet behind the shooter next to him while unholstering and double tapping, FROM THE HIP, trying to hit a target downrange!
You might try this link.
http://www.nrahq.org/women/isc/index.asp
There are shoots all over the country to teach women. Not sure about southern OR, but a club in NE OR did 2 different shoots last summer, and had overflow classes on both dates.
I'm sure there is something near you also. I lived in Pendleton, OR for a number of years, but I'm not really familiar with southern OR, except to go throuh in hwy 97 or I-5 going to/from CA.
The instructor you mentioned was, at best, inappropriate. There are lots of better ones out there.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Smartina, Remember, we're 64 years YOUNG!!! Not old. It gets better because we are getting more experienced at life. I may be 64, but I try to act 50, or younger if I can get away with it.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I think your best bet is some background research and references instead of jumping at the first certified instructor you find. The certification is a guarantee that they have undergone some block of instruction and have been tested, but what they do after the course is more or less on them.
I can't comment as to if your guy wears special shoes or not. I personally would not shoot the instructee's gun and use their ammo without explicit permission, but I would not consider it outside the realm of possibility to do so either at the very start or very end of the lesson.
As a side note, I concur with those who said that teaching women is easier. Every woman I've taught has listened intently, followed instructions, and done very well. Seems like every guy I've taught who's seen a Bruce Willis movie will go "But I think this is better" or "My ex Delta Special Park Ranger buddy taught me this." Well, if that's the case, why the hell did you ask me, and why can't you hit anything?
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski