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Fisheadgib
Senior MemberPosts: 5,539 Senior Member
Where is the line on humane hunting?
Fisheadgib
Senior MemberPosts: 5,539 Senior Member
I woke up about three AM and couldn't sleep so I got up and did some paperwork with a hunting show on the TV in my office. Some woman was in a foreign country somewhere (their speech was obviously dubbed) and wanting to take a moose with a bow. For starters, the hunt didn't look very challenging as they pretty well just walked up to the moose. The guide held a pair of plywood moose antlers out in front of him while they slowly walked up to the moose, who was laying down facing them and just watching them the whole time. They got within about 30-35yds and the woman took a shot and missed. (bear in mind moose are pretty dang big) The moosed didn't jump or run off, it just kept staring at them. The guide decided to get her closer so that she might be able to hit it. He got her up to about 15yds and she let another arrow fly and this time she connected. The moose got up and walked away after being hit and they followed it around for an hour and a half waiting for it to die. Once the moose finally expired, there were high fives and congratulations on taking such a wonderful trophy.
Now I'm sure that most of you that hunt try to harvest any animal you take as humanely as possible but how many of you would consider this humane or even "hunting" for that matter? Most of the guys I hunt with also bow hunt and I have no problem with it but for me personally, it doesn't seem to be the most humane way of harvesting an animal. Especially when you have to follow it around for an hour and a half waiting for it to die. The guide and the hunter both acted like this was SOP and someone along the line thought the whole ordeal was worthy of broadcast on television. Personally, I like a little challenge to a hunt and I guess that I don't understand what demographic a show like that is targeted towards.
Now I'm sure that most of you that hunt try to harvest any animal you take as humanely as possible but how many of you would consider this humane or even "hunting" for that matter? Most of the guys I hunt with also bow hunt and I have no problem with it but for me personally, it doesn't seem to be the most humane way of harvesting an animal. Especially when you have to follow it around for an hour and a half waiting for it to die. The guide and the hunter both acted like this was SOP and someone along the line thought the whole ordeal was worthy of broadcast on television. Personally, I like a little challenge to a hunt and I guess that I don't understand what demographic a show like that is targeted towards.
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As to the bow part....I just don't know. It is obviously effective on animals...eventually. But then again, animals shot with a rifle aren't always DRT either. In fact I would venture to say that any animal shot, bigger then an average white tail, the number of DRT kills are probably astronomically overstated online and in fact are extremely rare. Moose are exceptionally large animals, and I'm guessing it takes quite some time for them to bleed out from what is to them in scale, a fairly small incision from a broadhead.
That being said, an hour and a half to wait on the critter to die does seem long, but I wonder if it was in any real pain or suffering?
Outdoor Life had a story decades ago by a bowhunter who was accidentally/negligently shot by another archer, and the story wrapped up with his view and answer for anti-hunters who came up to him and said "Now you know the pain the animals go through."
His response, in effect - "I think broadheads and archery are very humane. When the arrow hit me (in the thigh from a quartering-rear direction) I didn't FEEL a thing. I brushed it with my hand at first, and wondered how I got my pants caught on a stick." Sure, he had a rush to ER for removal and stopping the bleeding, but when the videos show a deer bolting at a bowshot, it's typically RESPONSE TO STRING NOISE and not because of the arrow's impact - the deer react the same to a hit or a miss. Keep the pressure off, and a good shot on a deer will put it down shortly as it relaxes and goes back to daily life; chase it, and the adrenaline can keep it moving a good ways.
Oh and MHS, thanks for the hunting lesson.
I, for one, believe that it is our God given right to harvest animals for food. That's Biblical, and being Biblical is another point the left hates. The left will divide us too. They like to sit back and act as though bow hunting is ok since it doesn't require a gun. Don't fall for that one, because once they take our guns, then they'll take our bows. All hunters, whether you hunt with a rifle, a bow, black powder, whatever, we must stand together on all the issues, the 2nd amendment, hunting, fishing, all of it, or we will lose these rights one at a time.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
Yep, probably would have staggered off and been all healed up in a couple of days....
Aw, c'mon guys. Give the .270 a little credit here. It would have at least made the moose mad.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
People miss with rifles, too. People make bad shots with rifles all the time, wound animals. Probably ten times more often than bows.
Making a good shot with a bow is infinitely harder to do than with a rifle, to be sure. Most good archers practice constantly.
I'm sure I would have been disgusted watching the show, also. Sounds like the "hunter" wasn't prepared.
I know the deer I've shot with my bow have died much more peacefully than any I've ever shot with a gun. With a good bow, and razor sharp (not been shot into a target 50 times) broadheads, the deer have no clue what happened. They tend to trot 10-15 yards, and fall over dead.
Granted, I've made good shots, and haven't had to see the flip side of the coin.
I've hung out with a lot of hardcore bowhunters. The consensus among them seems to be that if the shot is good, they die every bit as fast as when shot with rifles. A main artery is a main artery, and it doesn't matter too much what clips it.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
My guess would be quite a few. You don't have to be a good hunter to be able to afford a guide, unfortunately.
If they are only recovering 1/3 to 1/4 of hogs that they shoot, I'm wondering what they are doing wrong? They are apparently getting much better results on their deer, so are they taking unethical/long shots on hogs? Are they afraid to track it, or are they putting effort into tracking? Maybe they look at hogs as a nuisance animal, so they take shots on them that they normally wouldn't take on deer?
Methinks you speculate too much!
You have never hunted moose. This particular animal didn't jump to its feet and charge the hunter, but they do. Cows are worse than bulls. It is very possible that the animal had never seen a human. Moose are not skiddish whitetail. Think about walking within 15 yards of an antlered horse. You may not view this as "challenging" but getting that close to to 1200-1500 lbs of unpredictable IS the point.
Second, you have no idea what the hunters did with the meat, off camera. She was with a guide. He most likely called in the crew to haul the meat out of the woods. They just filmed the money shot in the canoe.
Ayn Rand
My thoughts exactly.
Not so sure there's anything in the Bible about the left wing being haters. Remember, the Pharisees were the right wing back then.
Jim
Yes and no. Placement counts, but with an arrow broadhead sharpness also counts. With a properly sharpened broadhead in the right place, a 45# recurve will kill a moose quickly.
One reason I don't like short carbon arrows with an overdraw. They don't have the mass to drive the broadhead.....
I agree. (at least where I hunt) A few years ago, a couple of the guys were on a mission to get a hog with their bows. Once they got one, they said they had no need to try again but I think it's because the hogs went nocturnal and they haven't had an opportunity.
I'd like to think that they went back and recovered the meat as you're right, I don't know. I do know that I never said they were in a canoe and that they were in a motorboat that had room in it for some of the meat.
Now I guess I see the challenge of moose hunting, not getting charged by a large animal. So since I speculate too much (I've proven this before) How many folks here have horse or cow heads mounted on their walls?
Does a Shetland Pony count?
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
It would if you experienced an adrenaline rush when it charged.
I only shoot wood shaft, self made arrows for that very reason. They hit like a sledge hammer with a 1.5" razor on it
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Interesting concept. I know very little about the mechanics of bow hunting equipment but I see that there are separate schools relating to the projectiles just like there are with firearms. I've shot deer with quite a few different calibers and projectiles and my personal preference is a fat bullet lumbering along at a moderate velocity. It works best for me while some of my friends prefer a light bullet moving at a blistering velocity. I never thought about applying the same arguments to bow hunting. Virtually everyone that I know that bowhunts is obsessed with speed. They all cut their arrows as short as possible to keep them as light as possible and they all use carbon fiber arrows. I don't know what different broadheads weigh but the greater majority of my bowhunting friends also swear by Rage broadheads. It's interesting to learn that there are different schools on arrow weight.