Unarmed teen shot dead in self defense

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Replies

  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,624 Senior Member
    I thought I had read that Z had marks on his face from physical encounter with shootee, this is turning into a big steaming pile of dung very fast. The city Mgr. is a guy that formerly worked in Topeka KS until he couldn't take the heat from the local city council and abandoned ship to land in this mess.He was to urbanized for our good people. He drives a Jag and charged the city mileage for him to drive it to work.(In his contract.) Didn't set well with masses. Didn't know him personally but he made the papers A LOT. What I have not read about if the gunshot victim had other marks on his body from a fight...
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    I haven't commented on this thread yet simply because of things like this. We don't have the whole story yet, and as bad as things sounded for Zimmerman, we don't know if things might end up sounding just as bad for the other side. I will say that Zimmerman could have easily (and rightly so) avoided all this mess by acting as a neighborhood watchman and not as Captain Crimefighter.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,685 Senior Member
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • UndaCovaBrotherUndaCovaBrother Member Posts: 76 Member
    I visited a friend and his wife for a couple weeks in FL, and they too live in a gated community. First evening I went for a walk to see the community and was stopped by security. He said good evening and asked me what business I had there and I told him I was visiting friends. He asked for their names and address for confirmation and I gave it to him, we go about our business. When I was returning to the apartment, I ran into another security guard. This guy asked me what business I have there and I told him I was visiting. He then follows me from a distance until I got to the building. When my friend opened the font door he shouts to him asking if everything was ok, to which my friend gave him an affirmative and went to have a talk with him. I was then told that there were a few break-ins in the community. At the time it was cold in FL and I had to be wearing my knitted hat and a hooded sweatshirt. Nothing bad happened, the guards were doing their work and although I was a bit annoyed by one of them trailing me from a distance. I had no problems with him confirming my story by greeting my friend when he let me into the apartment.

    That said........... There are many ways to deal with all situations. This guy just chose the wrong way!! If that kid had a CCW and defended himself by shooting the watch guy....... I wonder what would be the outcome since he didn't live there?
  • UndaCovaBrotherUndaCovaBrother Member Posts: 76 Member
    It's funny that people on other forums have given all right to the shooter and are supporting him. Just sad that it has turned into a black/white thing which only puts more fuel into an already dangerous fire! Supporting someone who committed an offense intentionally or out of stupidity, is no way to protect your right to carry and defend yourself/property. It's a shame that some people who I have grown to have respect for have now given me reason to not respect them anymore due to their way of limited and warped way of thinking. "So far I still have respect for all persons here!" Shows the calibre of persons here, and I'm still proud to be a member of this forum!!
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,690 Senior Member
    Do not attempt to put the cart before the horse. Remember, every story is like a pancake, no matter how thin it is, there are always two sides. So far, we have only heard one side.......Robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,049 Senior Member
    I listened to the enhanced version of the 911 tape, link provided above, that is supposed to contain the racial slur.
    I heard the cuss word, but, could not recognize a racial slur in the next controversial word; unless there is a new slur I haven't heard before.

    I believe, had the proper authorities been left to investigate the matter, whatever evidence there was have would come out. It does no good to try the event in the court of public opinion with no facts.

    They know where Zimmerman is and the other thing, a bounty by some group on Zimmerman's head will do wonders for race relations in this country .
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,394 Senior Member
    I read a comment about the picture of Trayvon. The news media will not put up a current picture of Trayvon. Why? It detracts from his "victimization" by Zimmerman, so they imply. Trayvon Martin is a 6'-2" football player who is in shape.

    I heard (unsubstantiated) that Zimmerman had grass stains on the back of his shirt, a bloodied face and was heard by a witness yelling for help. I'm not sure if any of this has been corroborated yet, but it will turn the tide of the investigation if it is. As to why Zimmerman apparently followed Martin, that is still up in the air.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,685 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I listened to the enhanced version of the 911 tape, link provided above, that is supposed to contain the racial slur.
    I heard the cuss word, but, could not recognize a racial slur in the next controversial word; unless there is a new slur I haven't heard before.

    I believe, had the proper authorities been left to investigate the matter, whatever evidence there was have would come out. It does no good to try the event in the court of public opinion with no facts.

    They know where Zimmerman is and the other thing, a bounty by some group on Zimmerman's head will do wonders for race relations in this country .

    I listened to the tape and with the profile of this case I doubt it was doctored. You can hear him say fn ****. I don't know how this will play into the self defense but he said it.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,049 Senior Member
    Ok then he used 2 syllables then
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Considering that the public is only given information that the media wants us to have, it would be impossible to formulate a fair assesment as to what might have transpired. I hunted all over the internet and could not find a current picture of Trayvon but lots of pictures of a little kid in a sports jersey. The media is making a huge effort to make this look like a white vigilante gunned down an innocent black child and all the media attention and misinformation will make it almost impossible to find an impartial jury when this eventually goes to trial.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    We do know a few things,

    Trayvon had legitimate business there, visiting relatives, went to the store, he had committed no crime, he was not trespassing, Zimmerman thought Trayvon was suspicious for some reason, and that is what he told 911, the recording of Zimmerman was in hushed or whispered tones, but after dropping out frequencies, two words are clearly heard, the f word and coons, this shows objectification by Zimmerman, he did not describe Trayvon in the manner consistent with the training of a security guard, and someone being objective and professional.

    I remember folks being so scared of working ethnic neighborhoods as to be ineffective, and I did not want to work with them, as their actions on various occasions endangered Me.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,360 Senior Member
    With all the slanted media coverage, Zimmerman will have to be put on trial in another country to get a fair hearing. There may be some place on the planet that hasn't been inundated by the coverage. The U.S. DOJ has gone on record as saying they may charge Zimmerman with a hate crime.

    My honest opinion is that I'm tired of every insert race on black crime as being characterized as racist, or a hate crime, but every black on insert race crime just another mediocre crime.

    As far as pictures of Trayvon as a 17 y.o. not being shown, that is just media bias. I found LOTS of them on a simple Google search, and I am not an internet search genius by any means. I can see why they aren't showing them on the news, though. They aren't exactly what the media is attempting to portray.

    Could be a long hot summer coming.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,049 Senior Member
    Yeah, much different photos gansta style.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,369 Senior Member
    This has turned into another Richard Jewell case...the man was tried and convicted by the media long before he ever went to trial...in the end the networks paid through the nose...seems they are really slow learners...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,681 Senior Member
    As slanted as the coverage is, the father is still saying that it is slanted against his son because they released that Trayvon got kicked out of school for having a bag with marijuana residue.....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Either way, with the Publics "right to know," BS, the guy will never get a fare trial anywhere in a civilized state or country for that matter. The media is a bunch of nosy bastards IMHO. Apparently there are a bunch of people rallying against the shooter already.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Back when I was teaching, the black thugs and the hispanic thugs didn't have any love for each other. Just because a kid is still in school doesn't make him any less deadly in a 1-on-1 fight. It sounds like the shooting might have been a legitimate self-defense act once the kid had the shooter on his back and was pounding his head on the ground. There's also a comment on record somewhere that the black kid was trying to grab the gun. If the shooter had also been black, it would have been passed off as a "public service" shooting where one scumbag kills another one.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Virginia BoyVirginia Boy Member Posts: 213 Member
    People keep referring to Mr Zimmerman as white, when in truth he is Hispanic.
    Even a black columnist, for The Miami Herald, said that he was white.
    Rights and freedoms, won with patriot's blood,
    shall not be taken away, by ink from a tyrant's pen.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    More keeps coming out about the 17 year old ...

    I still question why a non-LEO leaves the safety of a vehicle to follow a a suspicious person not on his property. He had called 911 and reported it and that to me should have been it. If things continue to unfold with Martin jumping Zimmerman who knows.

    I do know one thing ... this has all the makings of a 1991 LA riot after Rodney King arrest or the last major riot I can remember in Florida in 1989 in Overtown after a LEO shot a black motorcyclist. The tender is piled for the bonfire and is only waiting for an idiot agitator/instigator to strike the match.

    I feel for all families involved but pray for the Sanford community and their LEOs as to what they might be dealing with in the near future.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "I still question why a non-LEO leaves the safety of a vehicle to follow a a suspicious person not on his property. He had called 911 and reported it and that to me should have been it. If things continue to unfold with Martin jumping Zimmerman who knows. "

    There is the rub, this guy was not even an authorized Security Guard of some ilk, at least if he had been an authorized Security Guard, and was patrolling a fixed patrol area, he would have had some limited authority to ask for ID, and know the nature of Trayvon's visit, and in any case, if he was driving around in a marked security patrol vehicle and wearing some sort of uniform, he could have cooked up any excuse to walk around, saying he was looking for stray dogs etc.....

    If there had been no strange call to 911, and he had not been on record saying anything as was recorded, this all would have been much simpler, if a person for no good reason starts pounding on an armed uniformed security guard, chances are the perp will get shot.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Fox news had some more data on this shooting. Eyewitnesses confirmed Zimmerman was punched, knocked down and his head was being banged on the pavement. Always two sides to every coin/story...........facts are still forthcoming.


    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...l-rights-punch

    With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law enforcement authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw that initial punch Zimmerman told police about.

    Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened Feb. 26. But that night, and in later meetings, he described and re-enacted for police what he says took place.

    In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,274 Senior Member
    When Zimmerman & Martin were on the ground fighting Zimmerman's gun became exposed, Martin & Zimmerman struggled for the gun, Martin was shot during
    the struggle, that's why no arrest was made. I still don't understand if the neighborhood watch new Zimmerman was armed, not very smart to have an armed
    wannabe Cop IMO. Guns & stupid = BAD
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,360 Senior Member
    Not an attempt to derail thread, just contrasting a story that happened last weekend, in Chicago, with the media circus in the FL shooting. Not been on the news, though.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/10-dead-chicago-shootings-_n_1362604.html

    Chicago Weekend Shootings: 10 Dead, At Least 40 Wounded

    "At least 10 people were killed and 40 others wounded in one of the most violent Chicago weekends in recent history.

    The Chicago Sun-Times reports that most of the victims were in their mid-teens or early 30s, with the exception of 6-year-old Aliyah Shell, who was gunned down Saturday while playing in front of her home in the Little Village neighborhood.

    Two teens were arrested and charged in Aliyah's slaying Sunday."

    Click on the link above for the rest of the story.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,550 Senior Member
    At the moment he pulled the trigger, I'm sure Zimmerman felt his life threatened. The problem I have with his actions is that he never should have put himself into the position of having to defend his life. He was not/is not a cop, a security guard or even a 'neighborhood watch captain'. He is/was a guy who lived in a gated community. Nothing more and nothing less. He probably feels or felt some responsibility as a resident to maintain a certain quality of life, but that doesn't give him carte blanche to act unilaterally and do as he pleases. Having the right to do something doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do, and exercising 'rights' often comes with consequences. Getting out of his vehicle that night had the gravest of consequences.

    We may yet find that Martin did attack, and Zimmerman legitimately defended himself, but I'll still say he acted stupidly. Observe and report, not apprehend and interrogate.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,514 Senior Member
    No matter what happened, Zimmerman should have not have gotten out of his car. He went looking for trouble and found it.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,372 Senior Member
    This reinforces what Bullsi has said: if you have a CCW, don't get in a fight.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I have known people like Zimmerman, they are somewhat unbalanced, running out of their homes to shout at people they perceive as doing wrong, by loitering or panhandling etc.... these are what in some LE parlance are referred as "chronic(s) 911 callers)" and after a time and getting cataloged as a chronic, often ignored.

    One fellow I know of, was angered enough by two young people sitting with their legs stretched out into a parking space, that he injured one teens feet because he had to park in that space.
    A prudent man would have parked somewhere else.

    It is one thing to catch someone in the act of a crime on a neighbor and do something, but what Zimmerman did was unwise.

    As an example, I once saw a man a Neighbor, grab a lady I knew from work and he choked her, I decided against an armed confrontation and shouted at the guy, this had the desired effect and he released her and ran into his home, I called 911 while retreating into My dwelling.

    Zimmerman should have been prudent in his actions.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,248 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Zimmerman should have been prudent in his actions.

    +1, This reminds me of someone trying to clear a clog from their toilet by throwing a stick of dynamite into their septic tank while the neighbors watch. Everybody gets covered, and the toilet is still clogged.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    And worse still all that damage has to be repaired, and everybody pays.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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