The more important question though is how do we marginalize the racists and other fringe elements and focus debate on what matters rather than trying to paint either side based upon whatever ugly characteristics might apply to some of the individuals that happen to vote for each side.
It boils down to territorialism and tribalism. It is an unfortunate part of being human. My dad can beat up your dad, my party is better than your party, my god is better than your god. It is that whole "us and them" trap that people fall into so easily. When I see it happen, I try to ignore it-- no intelligent conversation is going to come from it and to debate the issue is futile. There is really nothing I can say to the other person because he has already made up his mind and projected a set of perceived values onto me. Once I know that, why waste my time?
I hate discussing race just for the fact that talking about gives it validity. Talking about a subject that is an imaginary barrier begins to make that barrier real and that is the opposite direction that I want to go.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
That bumper sticker is controversial. Is it racist> No it's paper. Is the wording intended to be racisist.. I'd say yes.
All that aside, as a country we have yet to become "Americans" . How often in your life has someone asked you, " What's you background? Are you English? German? Japanese American? African Americian? The answer to that question is the root of the problem.
My father's parents came from Italy in 1912, and my mother's mother came from Germany about 1908, and her father is German , and French Canadian. It makes me a second generation " AMERICAN ". In fact if you are a US citizen you are an American. Maybe one day we will be a unified population, but until that day we will be divided. ( deep, huh!)
D
"A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Yup. It is indeed a racist bumper sticker, that is probably counterproductive to the designer's aims. Also damn funny.
There's also Simba, the African Lion, not to be confused with Obama, the Lying African.
I've always been partial to "Great! You made history! Can we impeach the SOB now?"
I fall into the "hate everyone equally" category. Having observed humanity's subcultures - including my own - for a long time, I have to say that stereotypes exist for the simple reason that they are very often true. If you can't get a laugh out of them every now and then, pull out the corncob.
You are wholly unqualified to make pronouncements on who is racist, or for that matter, even to try and define the meaning of the term. People don't like each other for a whole host of reasons, usually relating more to class or behavior than skin color. You obviously think of yourself as one of the leaders in the charge to redefine the language in a way so as to establish your own dishonest ideology as the final authority on all such discussions.
Get out from behind your bureaucrat's desk and go out into the world. Leave all of your preconceived notions and socialist dogma behind you for a few years, and live life among the teeming masses you feel so superior in intellect to. Then come back and instruct all the poor ignorant fools about how to treat other human beings. The worst hater you will ever find among southern rednecks will do less harm in his entire lifetime to minority races than the liberal/socialist elites you carry the water for, who regard all of the less 'enlightened' among us as little more than cattle to be cared for and nurtured into 'right thinking' citizens of a utopian world.
That world never has and never will exist. What life is now is what life has always been and always will be, and folks learn to live with each other, or they don't.
Is that cpj standing behind them to get them off to a good start................:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
At one time I thought you were rather intelligent but no more and with that said I will not be participating in any thread started by you or you participate in.
Intelligence has nothing to do with common sense and moral character or honesty, it can only help them out if one has those qualities. Not saying that alphasigmookie lacks all of these, but after time we all when having conversation expose our bias as you have in your posting, but that is ok. Don't cut him off by not participating in a thread he has posted in, because we won't be able to know you as well. Let him think and say what he wants and when you disagree say why, because he does not have to believe like you do even though he is intelligent, but wrong most of the time. :jester::jester:
And also, the Democratic Party has actually kept blacks down. As long as they keep them like that and pretend to be their friend, they get their vote, to say nothing of the failed liberal policies of the past 50 years concerning civil rights. I call it reversed discrimination.
Saw a lot of that^^^^^^^^^^^^^ when I lived in the South....
Intelligence has nothing to do with common sense and moral character or honesty, it can only help them out if one has those qualities.
You are wholly unqualified to make pronouncements on who is racist, or for that matter, even to try and define the meaning of the term. People don't like each other for a whole host of reasons, usually relating more to class or behavior than skin color. You obviously think of yourself as one of the leaders in the charge to redefine the language in a way so as to establish your own dishonest ideology as the final authority on all such discussions.
Get out from behind your bureaucrat's desk and go out into the world. Leave all of your preconceived notions and socialist dogma behind you for a few years, and live life among the teeming masses you feel so superior in intellect to. Then come back and instruct all the poor ignorant fools about how to treat other human beings. The worst hater you will ever find among southern rednecks will do less harm in his entire lifetime to minority races than the liberal/socialist elites you carry the water for, who regard all of the less 'enlightened' among us as little more than cattle to be cared for and nurtured into 'right thinking' citizens of a utopian world.
That world never has and never will exist. What life is now is what life has always been and always will be, and folks learn to live with each other, or they don't.
:applause::win::that: Very well said bisley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All one has to do is just look around in any group of folks, or races of folks, and I am sure one will find some form of racist and prejudice in that group. I think maybe if the woman who created this bumper sticker would have used the spelling neg instead of ****, this issue would have never came to light. Once again regardless of Race, Creed, Color, Religion etc., there is always going to be someone who has disdain and hatered for another group of folks that are not the same as them. I don't hate Obama,for the color of his skin, I hate the way he has led this country the last 4yrs. Had it been a White boy from the south and he did the same things Obama, did I would say the same thing. (Well I did about Jimmy Carter anyway).
Is there a difference between having a sterotype against a person(s) and being totally racist? In my newest edition of the Oxford American Dictionary the 3rd deffinition of racism is:"The theory that human abilities are determined by race. I donot believe this is true. Human abilities are developed through education,training experience,practice,etc. Look at Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Herman Cain, Fredrick Dougless, George W. Carver, and many many more who have came up the ranks and contributed to humanity. Compare the intelligence of these to Barack Obama, and the truth is reveled.
A sterotype is an idea or character, etc. that is standardized in a conventional form without individuality. Big difference between racism and sterotype. We do have a 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech, but this is not a free pass. There are consequences that come with this right. The bottom line is that when people speak, or write something there could be reprecusssions from that speech or writing, in this case a printed bumber sticker. I also believe that the 1st Amendment was written to allow people to speak out against the US government without fearing retaliation and punishment from the US government. I also believe that the 1st Amendment granted "freedom of the press" to print anything as long as the content is true. I think that we have gotten away from the "true content" over the decades.
I was wondering if some black congressman/woman or even the President himself had a bumper sticker on their car that said something like: white is not right, would there be controversy over this. I am sure there would be. The thing is that there is derogatory,demeaning and inflamatory words or what I call "colorful metaphors" in all languages on this planet. If one chooses to use them in a speech or an article or even on a bumper sticker then one should realize that there may be consequences with choosing that particular adjective.
You are wholly unqualified to make pronouncements on who is racist, or for that matter, even to try and define the meaning of the term. People don't like each other for a whole host of reasons, usually relating more to class or behavior than skin color. You obviously think of yourself as one of the leaders in the charge to redefine the language in a way so as to establish your own dishonest ideology as the final authority on all such discussions.
Get out from behind your bureaucrat's desk and go out into the world. Leave all of your preconceived notions and socialist dogma behind you for a few years, and live life among the teeming masses you feel so superior in intellect to. Then come back and instruct all the poor ignorant fools about how to treat other human beings. The worst hater you will ever find among southern rednecks will do less harm in his entire lifetime to minority races than the liberal/socialist elites you carry the water for, who regard all of the less 'enlightened' among us as little more than cattle to be cared for and nurtured into 'right thinking' citizens of a utopian world.
That world never has and never will exist. What life is now is what life has always been and always will be, and folks learn to live with each other, or they don't.
Outstanding. :win:
ETA: I didn't think the bumper sticker was funny, either.
Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
Ok, glad you used paragraphs, and let us know in an unexciting story (but written well) that you are a supposed product of inclusiveness and exclusiveness with experience in diversity and which means today -(understanding that each individual is unique, and recognizing our individual differences - these can be along the dimensions of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, age, physical abilities, religious beliefs, political beliefs, or other ideologies - it is the exploration of these differences in a safe, positive, and nurturing environment - it is about understanding each other and moving beyond simple tolerance to embracing and celebrating the rich dimensions of diversity contained within each individual).
Yes, you seem to be a true pluralistic renaissance man. Of course a Renaissance man is neither an expert nor a specialist. He or she knows more than just a little about "everything" instead of knowing "everything" about a small part of the entire spectrum of modern knowledge. The term is essentially ironic, for it is universally believed that no one really can be a Renaissance man in the true meaning of the term, since knowledge has become so complex that no human mind is capable of grasping all, or even a large part, of it.
Yet alphasigmookie, if you learned these things as you imply in the majority of your post and claim them to be so concerning your person, I find some of your statements either hypocritical or not the truth and none of what you wrote in the above story embellishes or illuminates for us your liberal bias that is in all your writings and arguments on this forum. Can you give us the history of your liberal bias as expressed in what you write on this forum so we can understand you better? I truly am interested in how you developed your world view. Thanks, beartracker
I can at least try if you're really interested. Will try to post something later tonight or tomorrow when I have time for more than a short reply. In the meantime I'd be equally interested in the origin and history of your conservative bias.
That is fair, and yes, I am really interested. My response (after you respond) will not be in a form of story or any detailed biography but in the reasons for my Epistemology - my ἐπιστήμη λόγος (study of knowledge - how do we know that we know) which is the underlying foundation of my morals, ethics and principles that influence my politics. I will wait for and look forward to your response.
I am sure that we both believe that we have a justified and true belief system - yet, in order to know that a given proposition is true, one must not only believe the relevant true proposition (if it is true), but one must also have a good reason for doing so. I wonder if either of us actually has a good reason to believe what we do politically and if the premise we work from are relevant, consistent and most of all true, and to what extent do we find agreement as opposed to disagreement?
For this to take place in reality we would have to appeal to some greater standard than ourselves (something above our feelings, preferences, sentiment, notions. experiences and assumptions but not ignoring them) if not then we assume that we alone embody truth and since we are finite, imperfect, full of faults, it would all just be a guessing game on our part - a leap of blind faith, with both feet planted in mid air as we assume that from only our experiences comes the answers and that our feelings are the facts. Looking forward to your comments. beartracker :beer:
Alf, I could tell you some stories about my childhood, too. But, they would just be stories to you, and besides, I recognize that I was just a kid, and that most of the conclusions I could have drawn from them would have likely been half-baked, like yours.
Think about it - you have somehow extrapolated from those incidents that the people who elected John Boehner are racists. That's probably about as much evidence as the haters in your story had, and they came to the conclusion that black people were bad and could be mistreated with impunity.
Spot on!...Robert...you may have had something really interesting to say...but I just couldn't sort it out well enough to read it....
Thanks Jayhawker, I Fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:silly::roll2: I forgot to turn on and enable my automatic paragraph setter on my computer.:roll::punch::rotflmao:
......Maybe that makes me arrogant and stuck up, but as I understand it America is about being the best that you can be and my upbringing gave me plenty of motivation to do that.
Being the "best you can be" does not mean better or smarter than everyone else. I'm not sure if this applies to you, but it is something to think about.
. Is it so hard to believe that someone who grew up in the "heartland", going to church every Sunday, could somehow turn out to be a liberal?
Not in these days and times of bankrupt philosophies and thoughts. I am not surprised at all, I have seen so much over the last 30 years of counseling to not be surprised by much of anything.
Replies
It boils down to territorialism and tribalism. It is an unfortunate part of being human. My dad can beat up your dad, my party is better than your party, my god is better than your god. It is that whole "us and them" trap that people fall into so easily. When I see it happen, I try to ignore it-- no intelligent conversation is going to come from it and to debate the issue is futile. There is really nothing I can say to the other person because he has already made up his mind and projected a set of perceived values onto me. Once I know that, why waste my time?
I hate discussing race just for the fact that talking about gives it validity. Talking about a subject that is an imaginary barrier begins to make that barrier real and that is the opposite direction that I want to go.
All that aside, as a country we have yet to become "Americans" . How often in your life has someone asked you, " What's you background? Are you English? German? Japanese American? African Americian? The answer to that question is the root of the problem.
My father's parents came from Italy in 1912, and my mother's mother came from Germany about 1908, and her father is German , and French Canadian. It makes me a second generation " AMERICAN ". In fact if you are a US citizen you are an American. Maybe one day we will be a unified population, but until that day we will be divided. ( deep, huh!)
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
If it was the other way around, don't you think the mainstream media would have been all over it?
http://fox4kc.com/2012/02/28/boy-set-on-fire-by-teens-in-east-side-neighborhood/
http://www.kmbc.com/r/30572405/detail.html
There's also Simba, the African Lion, not to be confused with Obama, the Lying African.
I've always been partial to "Great! You made history! Can we impeach the SOB now?"
I fall into the "hate everyone equally" category. Having observed humanity's subcultures - including my own - for a long time, I have to say that stereotypes exist for the simple reason that they are very often true. If you can't get a laugh out of them every now and then, pull out the corncob.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
Interesting take indeed??
Most if not all are even racist of people within their own race......
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
You are wholly unqualified to make pronouncements on who is racist, or for that matter, even to try and define the meaning of the term. People don't like each other for a whole host of reasons, usually relating more to class or behavior than skin color. You obviously think of yourself as one of the leaders in the charge to redefine the language in a way so as to establish your own dishonest ideology as the final authority on all such discussions.
Get out from behind your bureaucrat's desk and go out into the world. Leave all of your preconceived notions and socialist dogma behind you for a few years, and live life among the teeming masses you feel so superior in intellect to. Then come back and instruct all the poor ignorant fools about how to treat other human beings. The worst hater you will ever find among southern rednecks will do less harm in his entire lifetime to minority races than the liberal/socialist elites you carry the water for, who regard all of the less 'enlightened' among us as little more than cattle to be cared for and nurtured into 'right thinking' citizens of a utopian world.
That world never has and never will exist. What life is now is what life has always been and always will be, and folks learn to live with each other, or they don't.
Is that cpj standing behind them to get them off to a good start................:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
Intelligence has nothing to do with common sense and moral character or honesty, it can only help them out if one has those qualities. Not saying that alphasigmookie lacks all of these, but after time we all when having conversation expose our bias as you have in your posting, but that is ok. Don't cut him off by not participating in a thread he has posted in, because we won't be able to know you as well. Let him think and say what he wants and when you disagree say why, because he does not have to believe like you do even though he is intelligent, but wrong most of the time. :jester::jester:
Saw a lot of that^^^^^^^^^^^^^ when I lived in the South....
You got that right beartracker^^^^^^^
:applause::win::that: Very well said bisley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there a difference between having a sterotype against a person(s) and being totally racist? In my newest edition of the Oxford American Dictionary the 3rd deffinition of racism is:"The theory that human abilities are determined by race. I donot believe this is true. Human abilities are developed through education,training experience,practice,etc. Look at Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Herman Cain, Fredrick Dougless, George W. Carver, and many many more who have came up the ranks and contributed to humanity. Compare the intelligence of these to Barack Obama, and the truth is reveled.
A sterotype is an idea or character, etc. that is standardized in a conventional form without individuality. Big difference between racism and sterotype. We do have a 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech, but this is not a free pass. There are consequences that come with this right. The bottom line is that when people speak, or write something there could be reprecusssions from that speech or writing, in this case a printed bumber sticker. I also believe that the 1st Amendment was written to allow people to speak out against the US government without fearing retaliation and punishment from the US government. I also believe that the 1st Amendment granted "freedom of the press" to print anything as long as the content is true. I think that we have gotten away from the "true content" over the decades.
I was wondering if some black congressman/woman or even the President himself had a bumper sticker on their car that said something like: white is not right, would there be controversy over this. I am sure there would be. The thing is that there is derogatory,demeaning and inflamatory words or what I call "colorful metaphors" in all languages on this planet. If one chooses to use them in a speech or an article or even on a bumper sticker then one should realize that there may be consequences with choosing that particular adjective.
That's a racist remark. (Typed while jerking knee):tooth:
Spot on!...Robert...you may have had something really interesting to say...but I just couldn't sort it out well enough to read it....
Outstanding. :win:
ETA: I didn't think the bumper sticker was funny, either.
Good point NCFUBAR.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
....The edited version above is how I try to teach my kids to see the world.
Yes, you seem to be a true pluralistic renaissance man. Of course a Renaissance man is neither an expert nor a specialist. He or she knows more than just a little about "everything" instead of knowing "everything" about a small part of the entire spectrum of modern knowledge. The term is essentially ironic, for it is universally believed that no one really can be a Renaissance man in the true meaning of the term, since knowledge has become so complex that no human mind is capable of grasping all, or even a large part, of it.
Yet alphasigmookie, if you learned these things as you imply in the majority of your post and claim them to be so concerning your person, I find some of your statements either hypocritical or not the truth and none of what you wrote in the above story embellishes or illuminates for us your liberal bias that is in all your writings and arguments on this forum. Can you give us the history of your liberal bias as expressed in what you write on this forum so we can understand you better? I truly am interested in how you developed your world view. Thanks, beartracker
That is fair, and yes, I am really interested. My response (after you respond) will not be in a form of story or any detailed biography but in the reasons for my Epistemology - my ἐπιστήμη λόγος (study of knowledge - how do we know that we know) which is the underlying foundation of my morals, ethics and principles that influence my politics. I will wait for and look forward to your response.
I am sure that we both believe that we have a justified and true belief system - yet, in order to know that a given proposition is true, one must not only believe the relevant true proposition (if it is true), but one must also have a good reason for doing so. I wonder if either of us actually has a good reason to believe what we do politically and if the premise we work from are relevant, consistent and most of all true, and to what extent do we find agreement as opposed to disagreement?
For this to take place in reality we would have to appeal to some greater standard than ourselves (something above our feelings, preferences, sentiment, notions. experiences and assumptions but not ignoring them) if not then we assume that we alone embody truth and since we are finite, imperfect, full of faults, it would all just be a guessing game on our part - a leap of blind faith, with both feet planted in mid air as we assume that from only our experiences comes the answers and that our feelings are the facts. Looking forward to your comments. beartracker :beer:
Think about it - you have somehow extrapolated from those incidents that the people who elected John Boehner are racists. That's probably about as much evidence as the haters in your story had, and they came to the conclusion that black people were bad and could be mistreated with impunity.
I guess its true, only white people can be...
Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk
fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:silly: Thanks to you too, ADridge.
Thanks Jayhawker, I Fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:silly::roll2: I forgot to turn on and enable my automatic paragraph setter on my computer.:roll::punch::rotflmao:
:rotflmao::spittingcoffee: That's OK ADridge, I guess some people just don't like to read post without paragraphs in them.:rotflmao:
It's all good. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just cannot stand reading a wall of text. I apologize if I got under your skin at all.
Not in these days and times of bankrupt philosophies and thoughts. I am not surprised at all, I have seen so much over the last 30 years of counseling to not be surprised by much of anything.