obama wants to eliminate tax breaks for oil companies

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Replies

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,552 Senior Member
    What about inflation caused by flooding the economy with dollars generated by the FED? The (dollar) price of Gold has more than doubled in that period, so don't you think that has a lot to do with it?

    That's an excellent point. Since obama took office, the cost of gold has nearly doubled. So, one way to look at the price of oil is that it's not the price of oil that has increased, but the value of the dollar has decreased.

    On the "O'Reilly Factor" a few nights ago, Dick Morris made the following observation. In the 40s, a barrel of oil cost 20 cents. That's two dimes. Today, the amount of silver that is in two 40s era dimes will still buy a barrel of oil. That's pretty remarkable when you think about it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    This is an easy play for him since he will always want to raise taxes or take away loop holes or whatever just so long as the government prariedog hole gets more of your money. He thinks your money is the governments and besides he is smarter than you and knows how to spend it more wisely. Like on Solyndra. Sorry about spelling.
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    Im amazed at the political slant to an economic issue. If Obama or any other President could manipulate the price of oil, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
    There was a time, forgotten to me, when domestic oil companies needed help from our government to compete with forign oil producers. Like a college kid needing help from his parents. The kid graduates, makes all kinds of money but still demands subsidies from his folks.
    This is our domestic oil producers of today. They make record profits, but still demand subsidies from our government.
    It's time to cut the umbilical cord.
    Jim
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    The less obvious story is the growing gap between crude oil supply (the good stuff) and demand. The gap is made up by "other liquids". These other liquids consist of bio-fuels and natural gas liquids. These are imperfect substitutes for crude oil. Those who know anything about biofuels know that a lot of oil goes into producing them in the first place, so there's a double counting factor in these stats. They also have a lower energy content so a barrel of ethanol is worth more like 2/3 of a barrel of oil (not factored into the statistics). Natural gas plant liquids consist low molecular weight hydrocarbons that come out of the well as a vapor but can be condensed out under pressure. These include things like ethane, propane, butane, and some pentane and higher molecular weight hydrocarbons. Some of these are suitable for blending with gasoline in a refinery, but not all of them, so they're not really a direct substitute for crude oil. With 6+ years with virtually no increase in global crude oil supplies it's pretty obvious why prices have increased significantly over that period.

    Natural gas is not a substitute for crude oil? Of course it is, and the technology is here. Progress Energy (Pasco County, FL) announced that one of its power plants, which has been running on a combination of "oil" and NG, will be converted to 100% NG, which will save customers money, and meet government emission regulations easily. Is that not substituting NG for "oil". Also, there is at least one school district in Florida that is converting its entire diesel engine powered school bus fleet into NG powered engines. This also is expected to eventually pay for itself due to the lower cost of NG.
    Using natural gas instead of oil for vehicles as well as energy plants and home heating is here and available. The conversion to using NG will reduce the demand for crude oil, reduce our dependency on foreign sources of oil, and likely start to reduce crude oil prices.
    Instead of Obama wasting all that money on losers like the Volt, solar panels, undependable wind turbines, and algae swamps, how about using all that money on an existing and functioning domestic NG program, starting with the nation's school buses? Diesels are dirty, and a good focus to get the country going energy-wise.
    I guess what you mean is that there literally is no direct substitute for a barrel of oil. Very astute. Depends on how you look at it.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Natural gas is not a substitute for crude oil? Of course it is, and the technology is here. Progress Energy (Pasco County, FL) announced that one of its power plants, which has been running on a combination of "oil" and NG, will be converted to 100% NG, which will save customers money, and meet government emission regulations easily. Is that not substituting NG for "oil". Also, there is at least one school district in Florida that is converting its entire diesel engine powered school bus fleet into NG powered engines. This also is expected to eventually pay for itself due to the lower cost of NG.
    Using natural gas instead of oil for vehicles as well as energy plants and home heating is here and available. The conversion to using NG will reduce the demand for crude oil, reduce our dependency on foreign sources of oil, and likely start to reduce crude oil prices.
    Instead of Obama wasting all that money on losers like the Volt, solar panels, undependable wind turbines, and algae swamps, how about using all that money on an existing and functioning domestic NG program, starting with the nation's school buses? Diesels are dirty, and a good focus to get the country going energy-wise.
    I guess what you mean is that there literally is no direct substitute for a barrel of oil. Very astute. Depends on how you look at it.

    I said "direct substitute". By that I mean that you can't just switch them out using existing capital equipment. Most capital equipment and infrastructure are 10, 20, 50 year investments and once they're made the lock in demand for certain fuels for a long time. Sure future purchases can be made for equipment that uses natural gas or other fuels and diversifying is a good thing, but it takes a long, long time to roll over fleet and capital equipment stocks. There is a fundamental mismatch in time scales between the way the market transmits price information relating to supply and demand of fuels and the time scale upon which long term capital equipment decisions need to be made.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    I said "direct substitute". By that I mean that you can't just switch them out using existing capital equipment. Most capital equipment and infrastructure are 10, 20, 50 year investments and once they're made the lock in demand for certain fuels for a long time. Sure future purchases can be made for equipment that uses natural gas or other fuels and diversifying is a good thing, but it takes a long, long time to roll over fleet and capital equipment stocks. There is a fundamental mismatch in time scales between the way the market transmits price information relating to supply and demand of fuels and the time scale upon which long term capital equipment decisions need to be made.

    Progressive Enery is converting a FL power plant to NG in the very near future. There already exists a vast distribution system of NG (see link). The technology for switching vehicle engines to NG is here. NG vehicles are now being built. It can happen fairly quickly. The Florida county that is now switching its school busses to NG is going ahead. A NG fueling station has just been completed and ready for business there ,for county busses or the public, and the station was built using private company investment funds. None of this cost the government a dime, not like the failed ObamaVolt. Get real.

    http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/distribution.asp
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,743 Senior Member
    Progressive Enery is converting a FL power plant to NG in the very near future. There already exists a vast distribution system of NG (see link). The technology for switching vehicle engines to NG is here. NG vehicles are now being built. It can happen fairly quickly. The Florida county that is now switching its school busses to NG is going ahead. A NG fueling station has just been completed and ready for business there ,for county busses or the public, and the station was built using private company investment funds. None of this cost the government a dime, not like the failed ObamaVolt. Get real.

    http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/distribution.asp

    What part of what you posted in any way refutes what I said? In fact it reinforces my point. Everything in bold is new capital equipment with significant upfront cost replacing existing or retired previous capital equipment. Even if every new power plant, car, bus was built to run on NG starting today it would still be 20+ years for vehicles and 50-60 years for power plants before all the old equipment and plants were retired and everything still running was using NG. That's a lot of inertia in the system, especially with the long lifetime of the capital equipment purchases relative to the high volatility of Oil and Natural Gas prices.

    PS when will you be purchasing your new NG car or converting your existing car to NG? Just wondering about your personal capital replacement rate.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
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