"Defensive" driving and tactical training experience

alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior MemberPosts: 8,773 Senior Member
I'm posting this in the personal defense section rather than the clubhouse since not all defense has to involve firearms.

Over the weekend I got a chance to go to a tactical training facility (G4S ITI) out in southern VA for an "extreme driving + shooting experience". The outing was put on by a company called livingsocial and it was not a hardcore training course, but more of a beginners introduction to evasive driving and tactical shooting. I won't go into much of the shooting part as it wasn't all that exciting for someone who is already an experienced shooter. We shot a glock 17, M4, and MP5 (yes both had happy switches, but they wouldn't let us engage them :tissue:). We also got to do a brief shoothouse scenario armed with airsoft guns. The main observation I had from the shooting portion was that the trigger on the MP5 is TERRIBLE! Why do people even like those things? Give me a short barreled M4 with 3-shot burst any day over an MP5!

The far more exciting part was the evasive driving training. We learned J-turns, the PIT maneuver (spinning out a car ahead of you), how to correctly ram through a barrier, and how to evade a threat in reverse. The main lesson I learned is that if I'm ever in a situation where my life depends on my driving ability, I better hope someone else is driving or at least that I don't have to get away in reverse! In the reverse evasion course I plowed into a school bus and then at the end I pulled my J-turn in the wrong direction and slammed the rear end of my poor Kia Elantra station wagon into a concrete barrier at a high rate of speed moving it at least 6 inches, knocking off the bumper and breaking the rear axle...

Overall it was a heck of a lot of fun and I wish I could have taken a more in depth course. Unfortunately there was only time to try out each technique once due to the size of the group so there wasn't much time to learn from your mistakes. At the end of the course the instructors ran us through a more complex scenario at a much higher rate of speed which was pretty crazy and showed just how much there was to learn. Overall the experience opened up my eyes to other aspects of situational awareness and defense other than just with firearms.

Here's a first person video of my friend Allen pulling a J-turn from the back seat perspective. Hard to get the sensation from the video but it's pretty crazy when you're in the vehicle!

[video]http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/alphasigmookie/?action=view&current=VIDEO0002.mp4[/video]
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho

Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    It's impressive what can be accomplished with a 3,000 lb. projectile that runs forward and backwards. I learned that many years ago on a 1/4 mile dirt track!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,180 Senior Member
    I learned all that stuff on two lane dirt logging roads, and in the cow pasture. Fun stuff! The Pit Maneuver was a popular thing on the dirt race tracks long before law enforcement 'discovered' it. Still is in this neck of the woods. Also learned to do the fast reverse, spin 180 deg., shift to first and floor it in an old 3 speed on the column manual transmission car. Good stuff to know, I guess. As far as shooting from inside a vehicle, I've done some of that from the seat of a swamp buggy. I think it would be easier on a smooth surface road, though. :tooth:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    .........In the reverse evasion course I plowed into a school bus and then at the end I pulled my J-turn in the wrong direction and slammed the rear end of my poor Kia Elantra station wagon into a concrete barrier at a high rate of speed moving it at least 6 inches, knocking off the bumper and breaking the rear axle..
    Damn, you had to use your own car for this? Last time I did a course like that, we used the county cop cars.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,773 Senior Member
    Damn, you had to use your own car for this? Last time I did a course like that, we used the county cop cars.

    No, not at all. They had tons of beat up junkers that we used. Talked to the guys said they easily go through 500-600 cars a year and I believe it. Our 45 person group took out at least 10 in one way or another. Mostly flat tires, but a few that were probably totaled. When you broke one they just had someone drive it to the shop and pulled out another. I'm sure being a mechanic there would be a pretty busy job!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Used to do that stuff every year ( except wreck the vehicles ) at an old unused airport called Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, EVOC, lots of fun, courses set up with traffic cones, you could not knock down more than 8 in order to pass.

    The amount of paperwork was staggering, and considering no LE agency could ever get authorized to conduct exercises there, everyone used to beg Me to tell them how I managed to get authorization every year.

    :tooth:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • Lonewolf-PeruLonewolf-Peru Member Posts: 349 Member
    .... Talked to the guys said they easily go through 500-600 cars a year and I believe it. ......

    ...you do right to believe it. Years ago I took some classes of defensive driving too, and it is really hard on the cars
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    No, not at all. They had tons of beat up junkers that we used.
    OK, when you said "my poor KIA Elantra station wagon," I was taking it literally.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Used to do that stuff every year ( except wreck the vehicles ) at an old unused airport called Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, EVOC, lots of fun, courses set up with traffic cones, you could not knock down more than 8 in order to pass.
    I almost forgot that acronym. We did that on an old airfield as well, in the county that I was employed with. Definitely a lot of fun...would have been even better to do some crash-em-ups too, but I don't think the county would have liked us wrecking their unmarked police cars. Since the entire event was set up with the traffic cones, there was virtually no chance for any kind of crash. The crash avoidance maneuver was my favorite. You drive at about 40 or 50 MPH at a dead-end set of cones, you slam on the brakes, turn your wheel right or left and let off the brake, and you suddenly lurch to one side or another without touching any cones. Definitely gets the adrenaline going.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I learned all that stuff on two lane dirt logging roads, and in the cow pasture. Fun stuff! The Pit Maneuver was a popular thing on the dirt race tracks long before law enforcement 'discovered' it. Still is in this neck of the woods. Also learned to do the fast reverse, spin 180 deg., shift to first and floor it in an old 3 speed on the column manual transmission car. Good stuff to know, I guess.
    Uh-oh...sounds like bootleggers driving skills. :jester:
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,180 Senior Member
    Uh-oh...sounds like bootleggers driving skills. :jester:

    A couple of my neighbors when I was growing up were moonshiners. They also did a thriving business with "Midnight Auto Parts". Their legit job was laying block foundations for houses. One of them had a son my age; we were in the same grade in school from 1st through high school, and were good friends. I learned a lot of that stuff about driving from him. :tooth:
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    I got to check out one of those old moonshine cars a couple of months ago. It's a 47 Ford Business Coupe with a 347 cubic inch 57 Pontiac engine in it. Lots of overload springs, and 6-ply truck tires to handle the load. The owner has a photo album with pictures of Robert Mitchum from the "Thunder Road' movie sitting in the car, and Mitchum's autograph is on the dash. It's located at a little motorcycle shop in backwoods Tennessee near the Cumberland Plateau. That's deep in the heart of White Lightning country!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • addy777addy777 Banned Posts: 4 New Member
    deleted for spam by conchokid
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Do they provide the cars and if so how much it costs!!!!!
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,773 Senior Member
    Yep they provided the cars and it was $200 including transportation and lunch/snacks. Not cheap, but a cool experience. Not sure how much their more in depth training courses are, this was a special deal organized by an outside company.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    reported spam
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,165 Senior Member
    Kinda funny when the spammers don't even know how to embed a link...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    No shooting from the vehicles? Good skills to develop....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,165 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    No shooting from the vehicles? Good skills to develop....
    Might depend on what you're doing. I think Clint Smith said something to the effect of, "If you're going to drive, drive. If you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't do both."
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,695 Senior Member
    I might pay $200 to run a KIA station wagon into a concrete wall.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,735 Senior Member
    If you are coming to the SE this year Alpha...........you can practice with my rental on the dirt road outside Jerry's.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,773 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    If you are coming to the SE this year Alpha...........you can practice with my rental on the dirt road outside Jerry's.

    Lol, that's enticing. When traveling for work I have been tempted a few times to practice my j turns, but haven't had the stones. Unfortunately family commitments have forced me to abort my trip again this year. At this rate I'll make it down to NZ before making it back to TN! I'm already preparing myself for my cousin (who's not even engaged yet, but close) to plan her wedding for memorial day next year since it's about the only excuse left for my family to guilt me out of another trip to the SE shoot.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,177 Senior Member
    Might depend on what you're doing. I think Clint Smith said something to the effect of, "If you're going to drive, drive. If you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't do both."

    Actually, I'm thinking of being seated in your car and unable to drive away from the threat....did some " in the car' shooting with an XD and the AR carbine (out the passenger window from the drivers seat) at a range that accomodates such antics.... it's loud, even with hearing protection and I was finding brass in the back seat for months....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,737 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Actually, I'm thinking of being seated in your car and unable to drive away from the threat....did some " in the car' shooting with an XD and the AR carbine (out the passenger window from the drivers seat) at a range that accomodates such antics.... it's loud, even with hearing protection and I was finding brass in the back seat for months....

    Tends to get in the AC and defrost vents as well. You'll hear it rattling around in your dash.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,165 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Actually, I'm thinking of being seated in your car and unable to drive away from the threat....did some " in the car' shooting with an XD and the AR carbine (out the passenger window from the drivers seat) at a range that accomodates such antics.... it's loud, even with hearing protection and I was finding brass in the back seat for months....
    Well, that I can understand. That becomes another exercise in seated, constricted shooting. I saw that done at one IDPA match, where they built a wooden car cab with seats, but it had an open hood roof and driver's door.
    Overkill is underrated.
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