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Zimmerman Police Report

shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior MemberPosts: 5,849 Senior Member
For your consideration:

http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/George-Zimmerman-Police-Report-003.jpg

Were it not for the whole "approached suspect after being told not to" thing, I personally would call this a clear-cut case of self defense.
- I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski

Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,555 Senior Member
    We don't know yet. As has been pointed out, the dispatcher's instructions can be ignored if you so desire. It's not like they're actual orders. Also, we don't know if Zimmerman initiated the conflict or if it was Martin.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    We don't know yet. As has been pointed out, the dispatcher's instructions can be ignored if you so desire. It's not like they're actual orders. Also, we don't know if Zimmerman initiated the conflict or if it was Martin.

    A private citizen has a very limited role (training ) as far as initiating any action relating to other citizens etc.... once he ignored the dispatchers instructions, he was operating far outside the scope and umbrella of protection of his already limited role / authority as a neighborhood watch guy.

    Had he been a legitimately trained / licensed / bonded uniformed security officer in a marked patrol vehicle, the outcome would have been far different.

    Curtis Sliwa (sp?) The founder of the original successful NYC watch group, was very clear how members should NOT be armed etc....
    The idea being highly visible uniformed members with radios, able to get descriptions etc.. preventing crime by providing an audience of sorts, criminals hate witnesses, and that is the role of neighborhood watch groups.
    Also, watch groups operate better in greater numbers on patrol, at least two or three or more.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,555 Senior Member
    Zimmerman wasn't part of an actual Neighborhood Watch program. He might have headed the group up, but it was unregistered and was not connected with Sanford PD. He was acting more as a concerned resident, who was driving home and observed someone unusual. At least that's what the claim is.

    To paint him as acting outside of the bounds of neighborhood watch distorts his actions and frames them in an improper light.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    I read the police report that was leaked about a week ago. Even though the news media had been commenting about the security tape of Zimmerman when he was being brought in to the jail house and his lack of obvious signs of trauma to the back of his head, the report had statements from officers backing Zimmerman.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,189 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    once he ignored the dispatchers instructions, he was operating far outside the scope and umbrella of protection of his already limited role / authority as a neighborhood watch guy.

    We don't know if he ignored the dispatcher's instructions or not. That's an assumption on your part that is so far not based on facts. Perhaps that is what happened, but you don't know that for sure.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,555 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    We don't know if he ignored the dispatcher's instructions or not. That's an assumption on your part that is so far not based on facts. Perhaps that is what happened, but you don't know that for sure.

    True. Some hypotheses have Zimmerman following Martin and breaking it off when the dispatcher told him to, then getting accosted by Martin.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,263 Senior Member
    True. Some hypotheses have Zimmerman following Martin and breaking it off when the dispatcher told him to, then getting accosted by Martin.

    (Supposedly) Martin's family was told Martin appoached the truck and ask Zimmereman why he was following him. They had two confrontations.....

    martin_600.jpg
    7:13:30

    Zimmerman is wrapping up his suspicious person call and walking back towards his truck from position [E].

    Trayvon is heading toward Zimmerman’s truck as well, from somewhere around position [D]. He’s still talking to DeeDee on the phone, walking quickly.

    7:13:41

    Zimmerman hangs up his call to police.

    This marks the beginning of the “missing” two minutes and thirty seconds between the end of Zimmerman’s call to police, and the first 911 call at 7:16:11.

    While we don’t know all the details of what happened during this time, we do have some information that we can reconstruct the major events with.

    The first bit that helps us is from a Reuters article published yesterday.


    Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: “He told me Zimmerman’s story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I’m not following you.’ He rolls his car windows up.

    At first take, this sounds like Martin and Zimmerman had a prior confrontation before Zimmerman’s call to police, while Zimmerman was still in his truck. But it’s pretty clear by listening to that call, Zimmerman had not yet spoken to Trayvon.

    That implies Zimmerman and Martin didn’t just have one confrontation over the upcoming minutes, they had two. The first one occurring at Zimmerman’s truck at position [C]. The second one at position [F].

    7:14:30

    Zimmerman gets back to his SUV and is waiting for the police to arrive. Suddenly, there’s a knock at the window, it’s Trayvon.

    “Why are you following me?”

    “I’m not.”

    Trayvon starts to walk away, then runs, between buildings. He heads towards position [F], in the backyards between the complexes, cutting south of Townhouse G to get there.

    Zimmerman decides he wants to keep Martin in sight. He had already lost visual on him once. He leaves his vehicle once more and also heads towards [F], most likely via the sidewalk above [G].

    Both Zimmerman’s and DeeDee’s statements seem to agree on that.

    http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Hugh DamrightHugh Damright Member Posts: 169 Member
    There seems to be some media story about how Zimmerman was told that he didn't need to follow Martin but he then chased Martin down. But what I'm hearing is that Zimmerman wasn't following Martin in the sense that he was trying to catch him, but rather he was trying to see where Martin went so that he could tell the cops, and he was walking to an intersection to check the street names so he could better tell the cops where Martin went. Then Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle, and it was Martin who then followed and attacked Zimmerman. It's hard to know just what to believe, but it appears to me that the media spins every aspect of the incident so that Martin was the victim and Zimmerman was the perp, despite all reality.

    I'd like to know more about the person at NBC who decided to play the 911 call where Zimmerman said that Martin looked black, disregarding that the 911 operator had asked him if Martin looked black or white or hispanic. What kind of hate filled radical makes a living at NBC creating stories intended to fan the flames of racism?
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    To sell news, yellow journalism is the answer.

    When I majored in journalism in junior high-school and high-school, We were taught straight news reporting, as is, without slanting it in any way, real ( read yellow) journalism is anything but the absolute plain truth.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Also to add. I have heard allegations that Zimmerman said something along the lines of "F-ing coons," while on the phone with dispatch. I feel this was a major media exageration especially when I googled a slowed version that clearly states zimmerman saying "f-ing punks." This man will never get a fare trial IMHO. The media has already tied his noose. Im just curious as to when I should start rioting and looting businesses????
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I will say this, the way a LEO has to conduct his or herself in a major City as far as professional conduct and standards is no easy matter, and any LEO actively and energetically out in the fray regardless of whether he or she has actually done the right thing, will be suspended pending investigation, even if it was a righteous shooting.

    If a colleague complains for any reason, a LEO can be summarily suspended pending the outcome of the investigation, Neighborhood watches have no such controls or authority of any kind, these are highly visible groups of people, the idea is to deter crime not by force of arms, but by having witnesses in droves, criminals hate watchers, and as such that is how neighborhood watch is supposed to work in theory.

    Notwithstanding not many criminals will attempt anything in a neighborhood or community where it is know that most folks 90% or better have CCW and commonly walk around armed.

    It is way way better to have professionally trained and licensed and bonded armed Security Officers in marked patrol vehicles,
    In some areas the Officers are actually deputized peace Officers with Official standing.

    However since cost is always an all important factor, better to save dollars than be efficient, the NW committees seem to be all the more popular and palatable to the sheeples.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    When I lived in FL we had a watch program but just so we didn't end up in a situation like this what we did was lp/op from the livingroom or other vantage point. Take notes and check every half hour, if something seems out of place call the cops and stay inside. It worked pretty well.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Take it step by step manner and with what has been released. Zimmerman was the aggressor for the first part BUT never took it to a physical level. He broke off following Martin and was heading back to his vehicle when Martin turned into the aggressor by following him back to Zimmerman's vehicle. The report seems to point to Martin taking a physical level and Zimmerman seemed to have feared enough to used deadly force. I am not sure about Florida law and their take on use of deadly force but just because he pissed off Martin by following him doesn't mean he had no right to defend himself.

    Now if he could be charged for stupidity I'd lock his butt up and throw away the key ... he had NO authority to do anything more than call 911 in this case but his stupidity cause the situation to escalate and the ulitmate result could be a HUGE racial explosion.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,263 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    Now if he could be charged for stupidity I'd lock his butt up and throw away the key ... he had NO authority to do anything more than call 911 in this case but his stupidity cause the situation to escalate and the ulitmate result could be a HUGE racial explosion.

    I still think Zimmerman will/should lose in civil court. He created the situation that caused a fatality....... He didn't break any laws though from the biased (both ways) info I've seen so far....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    There has been an ongoing, and pretty successful effort to sanitize Martin's image, hiding his facebook posts and pictures, and his friends' comments. The kid was at least a borderline criminal, if not actively involved in drug selling and burglary. At the same time, there has been a deliberate, and very successful effort to demonize Zimmerman. Yes, he made some stupid moves. No, I don't think stupidity is a felony, or about half our congress critters would be in jail for the forseeable future! Even if Zimmerman manages to avoid a conviction in the Florida courts, I'm sure the Feds are waiting to hang him out to dry on some sort of phony "civil rights" violation. He's pretty well screwed no matter how it goes.
    Jerry
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    IF Zimmerman is found innocent because of self-defense, Florida law protects him from any and all civil lawsuits. I don't see how the feds have anything for a civil rights violation, but you never know. The ironic thing is that if Martin had been white, Zimmerman would never have been charged after the original decision by the Sanford prosecutor not to file charges, based on his claim of self-defense.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    A "justice" department that smuggles guns to Mexican drug dealers and gets away with it won't have any trouble trumping up some charges to keep Zimmerman in jail until he's an old man. On the same subject, Florida "panthers" aren't the only ones with a closed season- - - - -apparently the ones that come in from Detroit and Chicago are a protected species, also!
    Jerry
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Re: Zimmerman Police Report



    There has been an ongoing, and pretty successful effort to sanitize Martin's image, hiding his facebook posts and pictures, and his friends' comments. The kid was at least a borderline criminal, if not actively involved in drug selling and burglary. At the same time, there has been a deliberate, and very successful effort to demonize Zimmerman. Yes, he made some stupid moves. No, I don't think stupidity is a felony, or about half our congress critters would be in jail for the forseeable future! Even if Zimmerman manages to avoid a conviction in the Florida courts, I'm sure the Feds are waiting to hang him out to dry on some sort of phony "civil rights" violation. He's pretty well screwed no matter how it goes.
    Jerry

    He's screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Re: Zimmerman Police Report



    A "justice" department that smuggles guns to Mexican drug dealers and gets away with it won't have any trouble trumping up some charges to keep Zimmerman in jail until he's an old man. On the same subject, Florida "panthers" aren't the only ones with a closed season- - - - -apparently the ones that come in from Detroit and Chicago are a protected species, also!
    Jerry

    :that::agree:
    "It is what it is":usa:
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